That's fine...but there's plenty of luck in cfb...if you're annually playing with championship stakes on the line late into the season you can't really do much better than that.
Are you saying the only difference between Meyer, Saban, and the field is luck? No chance they are just better than the other coaches?
It was Constant that made the post. He remembers taking his kids to see Michigan's point a minute teams under Yost.
Seriously? The guy definitely seems like he will have Michigan at a top level for the foreseeable future but he literally hasn't won a conference championship in college football yet and people think he's already on the same level as the only two coaches in the history of the game to win national championships at two different schools?
We've reached the point with Harbaugh where it's hard to tell who is trolling and who is actually serious about some of this stuff.
Until Harbaugh has beaten tOSU and won a power 5 conference championship, he's in the tier behind Dabo
No, but i think it's a decent bet that Harbaugh and/or Petersen could have similar types of yearly success and that's all you can ask for. The B1G East last year had some insane luck occur that ultimately kept OSU out of the playoff and prevented a UM/OSU defacto playoff game. The SEC West was also decided by insane luck but that happens and if you're good enough year in and year out that's as much as you can expect.
That's what the expectation is for Harbaugh, but it is not yet the reality. I don't think anyone is saying Harbs has a better resume than either Saban or Meyer. Each coach is in a different stage of the process with their team. Saban and Meyer are well established and have their shit rolling. Harbs is still building, but I think it's reasonable to be pleased with where we are at, given how fucking abysmal our program was from 2008-2014. If we're having a conversation in 5 years and Harbaugh hasn't won a national championship, that would be a major disappointment and I'd consider it underachieving. Neither Saban nor Meyer had a natty 20 games in at Bama or OSU (though Meyer didn't get a chance in year 1 to compete.)
As user ZeroPointZero always says, we've now reached the point where it's hard to tell who is trolling and who is serious about some of this Harbaugh stuff.
I'd say he's on a similar level in the here and now...that doesn't mean he's accomplished near as much but if he gets them to where they're winning 11 games a regular season then yes he'd be on that level.
He's saying that if luck wasn't involved Saban would have more than 1 undefeated season at Alabama. Their floor is higher than most coaches' ceilings but there's still luck needed.
No they have 8 rings because their teams are consistently top 5-10...which is what I expect Harbaugh to produce.
I find it funny that first the entire board was fully convinced that Harbaugh would never leave the NFL to come back to Michigan, and now the board is full of people trying to convince themselves that Harbaugh isn't an elite coach.
Nobody has said Harbuagh isn't a damn good coach. There was a thread a while back where UM fans literally said Harbuagh > Saban. Now I think he's a good coach and I'd be happy with what he's done if I were a UM fan but saying he's better than the GOAT is just silly. He may win a title. He may win two. That's be great. It'd put him in the elite category. He'd still be a full tier below Saban. Again, nobody is saying he isn't a good coach. The issue is when UM fans try to put him on the level of Meyer and Saban. He's just not on that level yet, and if we're being honest, it's highly unlikely he ever reaches either's level.
Saban won a NC in a year he didn't win his conference or division(!). Meyer didn't get to defend his NC because he lost in a hurricane on a last second FG. 2000 Miami didn't get to steamroll the Sooners because of a computer. Luck absolutely plays a part. It doesn't mean Alabama wasn't the best team that year (they were) or that luck didn't go against them in other years (2013) but you seem to want to focus on absolutes, so...
You better fucking believe we'd have those plaques and/or trophies displayed proudly and prominently.
a truly elite coaches best win isn't against the florida gators in the citrus bowl or a regular season game against wisconsin.
Of course luck plays a role but chalking up all coaches that are consistently top 5-10 as equal and luck takes over from there is nothing but an AU fan refusing to admit that Saban and Meyer are just that good. It's easier to chalk it up to luck.
I was being liberal with going up to 10, but my main point is that Meyer and Saban usually have better teams than everyone on their schedule and they usually win 11 or 12 games before the postseason...I expect Harbaugh to have Michigan in a similar position.
Under what metric is he elite? Are michigan's standards truly so low that having a top 5 team midway through the season is enough to elevate the guy to god status?
I'm not saying they're equal but I expect Harbaugh and potentially Petersen to be in that same year in year out elite tier
Why don't we all agree that Saban is the GOAT and that nobody will ever approach his awesomeness. Then maybe dbl will leave and we can cut 75% of the stupid out of this thread. Would never work though. He'd check back for sure. He's a moth and we're his flame.
I don't understand what's so hard acknowledging coaches for being great. I obviously dislike Meyer, but the guy is an amazing coach. I'm indifferent on Bama and Saban, but that's the gold standard right now. It's a bit hypocritical for a Bama fan to shit on Michigan fans for being excited about our guy where we're at in his tenure given that in October of 2008 you were in the exact same situation. We have the same confidence that you had back then that you had the right guy. You got results, time will tell for us.
The Orange Bowl (a BCS game that left them #4 in the country) and a coach of the year award along with two heisman runner ups when Stanford was complete fucking garbage before he got there.
The USC team he beat as a 41 pt underdog is better than the Gators were last year, is the implication.
If I had to describe dblplay1212 as a poster to someone, this exchange would be a pretty good way to doing so. Making himself as stupid as possible in order to continue to argue a point he admits he agrees with later.
Thinking otherwise is dumb. I realize you're young and want to push everything before it happens, but pump the brakes a little. Let him win some divisions, conferences, and maybe some NC's before bumping up to the Saban/Meyer category.
What does putting someone in a certain tier mean to you? This might be where I'm getting so confused by what some of you are saying. Because to me if you're not equal then you're not on the same tier. A tier is a ranking system where you can't say for sure that "This is 1, this is 2, this is 3" but you can say "This one, this one, and this one" without a specific order.
Did you ignore the rest of his posts that you didn't bold? Of course you did bc you have such a hard on for me that it's laughable. He stated that all you can do is be top 5-10 and luck takes over from there. Just look at the entire first post you quoted.
Everyone is not young here anymore dbl...I'm not remotely saying he's as accomplished as Meyer or Saban