Jordan Peterson

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Internet2, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. VaxRule

    VaxRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    Applying the NAP to life is subjective no matter how often you say it isn’t. You sound like a young earth creationist right now. Your Bible is as fallible as theirs.
     
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  2. theriner69er

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    Do I have the right to engage in commerce with you?
     
  3. VaxRule

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    If you don’t think you need to have a right to engage in commerce as a condition of being alive in our society, then try and see how long you can survive without engaging in commerce or violating somebody else’s property rights.

    I’ll be waiting right here to see when you crack.
     
  4. Jake Barnes

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    Just curious for contextual purposes, but wasn’t the vast majority of southern segregation in commerce prior to the 1960s codified by local and/or state law?
     
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  5. VaxRule

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    Sure. And the segregation that occurred in the north wasn’t - but it still happened.
     
  6. theriner69er

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    Me? No, I'm asking you. Do I have the right to engage in commerce with you?

    (by the way, your post is the absolute cherry on the top of not understanding the NAP. holy shit! you think the NAP means no one engages in commerce?? ha ha ha)
     
  7. VaxRule

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    No. I didn't say that no one engages in commerce. I said that if you don’t think that a right to engage in commerce is essential to living in our society you should try giving it up and see how long you survive.
     
  8. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    3rd time is the charm again: Do I have the right to engage in commerce with you?

    wouldn't a more appropriate and applicable suggestion be: Try only engaging in voluntary interactions and see how long you survive! ??

    I think maybe the part you are missing is that commerce falls under a larger umbrella according to the NAP of voluntary interactions. You are trying to wedge commerce into the NAP, when it really does not fit. It's all abut property rights. If you sell me your car, or I go buy an apple at the grocery store, or sell my laptop on Ebay, it's all voluntary interactions based on property rights.

    those specific interactions fall under a narrower category of commerce, true, but "commerce" has no special place according to the NAP.

    I also think maybe you are forgetting how often you are denied the "right" to engage in commerce.
     
  9. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    oh did you answer it??? was No the answer?
     
  10. VaxRule

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    Commerce isn’t about property rights?
     
  11. Talking Head

    Talking Head The Bag Man
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    Yes. The argument that free market libertarians make regarding this topic is that the only reason systematic discrimination existed post-slavery was because of government regulations. They argue that some white people would have served black people in the same manner as whites if they were legally allowed to do it. There's some evidence to suggest that this would have happened in the years before Jim Crow Laws or perhaps if federal troops had stayed in the reconstruction south:

    http://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/a-brief-history-of-jim-crow
    I think it's a bullshit argument because enough people obviously thought codifying segregation into law was acceptable so who knows what they would have done to white businesses serving black customers, but at least the theory makes sense.
     
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  12. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Are you asking me or telling me? In the context of the NAP, incorrect, commerce is 100% about property rights and voluntary interactions.

    Recall that your initial statement was that denying someone the right to participate in commerce is a violation of the NAP. Also recall that I said based on that statement, it doesn't seem like you understand the NAP. We've come full circle. If you think commerce isn't about property rights in the context of the NAP, and denying someone the right to participate in commerce is a violation of the NAP, you do not understand the NAP.

    I'm sorry, but you have failed to demonstrate how denying someone the "right" to participate in commerce is a violation of the NAP.

    I still think I have the right to engage in commerce with you though :gocho:
     
  13. VaxRule

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    Jesus fucking Christ. I have been saying all along that commerce is what the BAP is all about. As a libertarian your only understanding of property rights is via the lens of commerce. There are no property rights for the NAP to protect without commerce. Denying commerce is denying property.

    Ergo, it violates the NAP to deny commerce.
     
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  14. Duck70

    Duck70 Let's just do it and be legends, man
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    lol you idiots how could you possibly think Jordan Peterson is Alt Right?

    [​IMG]
     
  15. SenatorClayDavis

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  16. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    That's not true though. Again, you are demonstrating a lack of understanding of the NAP, despite repeatedly tellign me you knwo all about it.

    The NAP is not about commerce. Go back and re-read what exactly the NAP is, I think it will help you understand where you are wrong in your belief that commerce is what the NAP is all about.
     
  17. VaxRule

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    If you believe that, then I really think you don’t understand commerce and property rights.

    Or libertarianism.
     
  18. theriner69er

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  19. VaxRule

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  20. theriner69er

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    Just so I'm clear, what is the definition of commerce you are using here??
     
  21. TrustyPatches

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    I was gonna post a tweet in here but it turns out, it’s already been posted. I should’ve left then
     
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  22. theriner69er

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    assuming that you are using the first definition of commerce; the activity of buying and selling, especially on a large scale.

    I'll try to help. the NAP can be generally divided into 2 categories: ownership of yourself (your body), and ownership of your property. Right off the bat we can see that commerce has nothing to do with ownership of your body, unless you are talking about the 3rd definition of commerce, which I don't think you are here, so correct me if that's wrong, or we are talking about the buying and selling of your body, which I also don't think you are talking about here. So right there, in the very very VERY basic definition of the NAP, we have a huge portion of it that has nothing to do with commerce (note, you said: "I have been saying all along that commerce is what the NAP is all about"). Please explain how ownership of your body relates to commerce.

    But even beyond that, if we ONLY look at the ownership of property here, we see things the NAP addresses that have nothing to do with commerce. vandalism, fraud, pollution, any types of free interactions.

    Remember, your contention here is that commerce is what the NAP is all about. While I have agreed with you that commerce plays a role in the NAP, it's most certainly not what it is "all about".
     
  23. VaxRule

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    Libertarianism is all about commerce and ancaps (and other strict NAP adherents) can only undefstand the value of property rights via their commercial value.

    Less devout libertarians acknowledge personal rights as separate from the property value of the self and place importancebon the obviously flawed and contradictory NAP.
     
  24. theriner69er

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    So while libertarianism has roots in the NAP, I think it woudl be much cleaner not to confuse things here. Let's stay focused on the NAP without adding to the mix.

    you keep saying it's "all about" something that it's not all about. The NAP addresses things like taxation, the military draft, the use of violence in self defense. none of those have anything to do with commerce. Can you address your understanding of the NAP in relation to those particular issues, and how in the world they have anything to do with commerce, which, according to you, the NAP is "all about"?

    Again, because you have not clarified, I assume we are talking about commerce as defined as the activity of buying and selling things. The right to use physical violence to defend myself from physical violence has what exactly to do with buying and selling things?
     
  25. VaxRule

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    You just commodified the self in your previous response. You can’t claim that and then say that justification of personal violence or the draft has nothing to do with commerce. The reductionist view of strict NAP adherents and ancaps reduces property (including the self) to its commercial value. You can’t have it both ways.
     
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  26. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    what specifically are you referring to?
     
  27. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
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    I wandered over to god emperor JP’s subreddit...it is absolutely amazing





    And this is one of the best things I’ve ever seen on the internet...

     
  28. Eathan Edwards

    Eathan Edwards Well-Known Member
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    Reminds me of that portrait of Kramer.
     
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  29. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    what specifically are you referring to?

    The right to use physical violence to defend myself from physical violence has what exactly to do with buying and selling things?
     
  30. steamengine

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  31. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
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  32. Where Eagles Dare

    Where Eagles Dare The Specialist Show On Earth
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    Incles
     
  33. IvanTheTerrible

    IvanTheTerrible Well-Known Member
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    Good god
     
  34. fsudan

    fsudan Well-Known Member
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    the horror
     
  35. Duck70

    Duck70 Let's just do it and be legends, man
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    hahahaha
     
  36. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
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    I missed the debate iit. What's that survey for?
     
  37. Jake Barnes

    Jake Barnes Team Mac OG
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    It breaks down the demo info for Jordan Peterson’s reddit fan page and shows the large majority of posters are white, single men.
     
  38. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
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    Oh. So its TMB.
     
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  39. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    yes, a message board about college football is filled with white men
     
  40. Killy Me Please

    Killy Me Please I lift things up and put people down.
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    That can't get laid
     
  41. Jake Barnes

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    It said they were single, not married.
     
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  42. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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  43. AIOLICOCK

    AIOLICOCK https://www.antifa.org/
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  44. AIOLICOCK

    AIOLICOCK https://www.antifa.org/
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    I'm extremely triggered by whoever cut that steak with the grain fwiw :crossedarms:
     
  45. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
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    Lots of overlap with Peterson and the left
     
  46. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Maybe if he stops eating chicken he won’t be so nervous about the persecution of the white man
     
  47. steamengine

    steamengine I don’t want to press one for English!
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    He looks really healthy. I’ll give it a go!
     
  48. Redav

    Redav One big ocean
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    Sounds pretty badass...

    “I lost 50 pounds,” he told Rogan. “My appetite has probably fallen by 70%. I don’t get blood sugar dysregulation problems. I need way less sleep.” His depression and anxiety vanished; his mind was sharp. “And my gum disease is gone. Like, what the hell?”
     
  49. kennypowers

    kennypowers Big shit like a dinosaur did it
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    Definitely not a grifter
     
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