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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by angus, Sep 9, 2016.
Gonna defer to Reid and Dorsey on this one
What a dumb fucking move.
I don't mind Mahomes but I don't think they had to trade up to 10 to get him...
Hate the pick. Really really hate it because we traded a 3 and next years one to take him over Watson.
That was incredibly deflating. It makes me sick we just took an air raid QB from a conference that doesn't play D over a 2 time Heisman finalist whose two best games of his career were versus Alabama Ds that practically every starter will end up in the NFL. Cannot believe we could have had Watson and don't. The streak will continue.
Coach him up, Andy.
Taking Mahomes over Watson was absolutely the correct move.
You guys act like Andy Reid (QB whisperer) doesn't know QB's
If he talked John Dorsey (of all people holy shit) to move that far for a QB, than you should really trust their judgement here. They know what the fuck they're doing.
Watsons passing velocity was really low and he threw an awful lot of picks. I think he will be a decent starter, but fuck settling for just okay. I saw just okay, at best, for my entire life.
Yeah, I wasn't particularly impressed by Watson as a prospect either.
FWIW ball velocity at the combine below 55 mph has a history of failure... Watson's was 49. Arm strength doesn't guarantee success, but having it is really important.
Mahomes is really fucking good
Pat Mahomes had 25 int over the past two years against significantly weaker defenses. When you throw 500 passes in a season it's bound to happen. Pat Mahomes is worse than ok. This is Todd Blackledge all over again.
I like Mahomes over Watson. Watson is Alex Smith 2.0. Mahomes gives y'all a chance to stretch the field and you've still got a mobile athlete that allows you to do a lot of things with your offense.
he had to throw the ball into stupid coverages because our defense was historically awful and we were basically always playing catchup. with proper coaching (i think this is the perfect place) and a few years to learn, he'll be great
Look at all those excuses.
Mahomes can stretch the field and that bodes well for guys like Maclon, Hill, and Kelce. Hoping they can grab a bigger WR later in the draft.
Like, I understand having an opinion on the pick, but I can't imagine deluding myself into thinking I know more about quarterbacks than a guy like Andy Reid
how are you a Kansas and Clemson fan
The main gripe with Alex among the majority of Chiefs fans is that he doesn't throw downfield enough and he doesn't take enough chances. Well, guess what? They just drafted the exact opposite style of QB that Alex is. Not sure how the fans that complain about Alex's shortcomings can gripe about this pick. Everyone wanted Watson... why? He's the exact same QB as Alex with a worse arm. Sure, he can be a serviceable QB but he's not going to be a great one with his notable limitations.
Mahomes could very well bust but this new regime hasn't given me any reason to question moves that they make so far. They wanted him bad, they got him. I will trust in them until they give me a reason not to.
Yeah you're right, Andy Reid is terrible at spotting and developing QB talent. Sorry for your loss
Grew up in KC, went to Clemson for school.
I'm fine w/ Mahomes over Watson as I think Watson's ceiling is a 6-8 year NFL backup. Mahomes will be out of the league in 3 years or a starter. Higher risk, higher reward.
Personally, I think all the Qbs this year were overrated and I'd stay pat and would have drafted Reuben Foster and hoped the QB class would have been better next year for 1st round picks.
I think if you see how many passes Mahomes made and how much he had to carry a shitty TT squd, it's a little more understanding why his INT count is high.
But not gonna dismiss it completely. He needs to be a little more careful and clean up that god awful footwork.
He's going to be a really good QB eventually and I'm still fucking excited we did it.
The Chiefs and Texans both did just fine.
Something tells me thats not first time he's had a gun pulled on him in his life. He looks annoyed/mad not scared.
Great now i have to call the cops. I already work at fucking jimmy johns. Isn't that bad enough?
Hello Friends, lets revive this from the dead and maybe change the title for 2017.
I've had an opportunity to go look at camp and here's what I've seen.
-Mahomes certainly has a long way to go still, but you can see the flashes that he's going to be a great QB eventually. The footwork, timing and anticipation still isn't quite there yet but hey he's a rookie and this Offense is hard as shit to learn so nbd. I think he's looked better than Bray and should be the #2 by the end of pre-season; Andy might full on protect him though so we'll see!
-Alex Smith is Alex Smith.
-Tyreek Hill is fucking ridiculous and was going to be the #1 WR, Maclin or no Maclin imo. He's so much more talented than JMAC and I understand why John Dorsey didn't want to pay that salary for him to be demoted to a #2 WR. Still handled the release like shit, but that's partly why he no longer has a job.
-Terrance Mitchell looks legit.
-The WR's after Tyreek on the otherhand, do not. Nothing horrid, but I didn't see any receivers stand out. Chris Conley still is inconsistent with his route running, Albert Wilson is Albert Wilson, Jones has been quietly recently and DRob hasn't shown a lot or the rookie guys. They may want to kick the tires on Anquan.
-A lot of rotating at ILB and DJ looks slower than molasses. This is gonna be the weak spot again.
-Logan has looked solid when on the field and the Kpass rookie plays like a total Mongoloid, but has freakish raw talent.
I don't see any reason they can't make it in as a WildCard team this year, but it'll probably be another one and done if they do.
I'll never understand drafting Mahomes over Watson but maybe it will work out in the end.
One has a limited ceiling and a higher floor. The other has a huge ceiling and more risk. If we know anything about modern-day NFL, it's that you don't win championships with middle of the road QB's. You have to have an elite QB to win it all. Mahomes has the potential to be one. Watson IMO does not. Watson is basically Alex Smith 2.0.
Not sure I agree with any of this. I think Watson has a pretty go idea on how to play for championships, moreso than Mahomes.
That's nice that Watson was on a loaded team of talent. Cam and Jameis were clear #1 picks that won championships but let's take a look at other championship QB's from recent memory that won NCAA titles:
So basically, in the last 20-25 years only 2 QB's that won college championships have panned out in the NFL. And they were both easy, clear cut #1 picks in Cam and Jameis. Winning an NCAA title means zip in the NFL.
Meanwhile, here is a list of recent NFL Super Bowl winning QB's:
Joe Flacco - not elite, but borderline
Eli Manning - ditto
Besides Dilfer and Johnson, all of those QB's are elite or near elite. Dilfer and Johnson were both meh QB's but each had historically good defenses.
tl;dr - Winning NCAA championships as a QB means nothing.
Yeah using college championships as a metric to predict NFL success is Mike and Mike tier analysis
What has Mahomes shown that gives you the opinion that he can win championships? That he throws hard? That he can throw the ball 70 yds?
Also, that Clemson team that went to the past two national championships and won last year was proven to be one of the least talented rosters of the past national champions. Was it a better roster than TTU? Of course, but let's not act like it was loaded like '13 FSU, '11 Bama or '04 USC. We will find out who ends up being the better pro.
this post could be applied to just about all of these players when they were coming out. Yet they've all won Super Bowls.
I never said anything about Mahomes winning anything. All I stated was that he has a higher ceiling than Watson. Watson has his limitations and can't make all the throws required to be an elite-type QB. Sure, he can win you some games and be serviceable but I think he's Alex Smith part 2. That's just my opinion. I'd much rather swing for the fences with Mahomes than take a high-floor, low-ceiling guy in Watson. We've seen it with Alex. You can win games and make the playoffs, but you can't win it all without an elite QB.
Low ceiling eh? How's our third string qb doing? I bet he doesn't even know how to read a defense.
Have you ever thought about what has led you to feel so strongly about this? Like maybe you're biased by your CFB fanhood? Idk just a thought.
It could also be that I watched every snap he took in college and am pretty confident his game will translate to the NFL.
Did you watch every snap of Mahomes too?
I did not. Most of what I saw from Mahomes is highlights. I doubt many in this thread have watched a lot of tape on either qb but are just parroting what they've heard from the draft or from training camp.
Haha okay dude. Or maybe people in this thread are willing to trust the judgment of the team of professional scouts who do this shit all day every day. It's certainly possible that Mahomes busts and Watson becomes a great QB. But I'm not arrogant enough to sit here and pretend I know better than guys who literally do this for a living. If they thought Mahomes was the guy I'm sure they had a lot of very good reasons for it.
I'm going to be against the Mahomes trade and decision to pick him over Watson forever.
There is nothing anyone can tell me to think that Mahomes was the right choice over Watson, there just isn't. I'll gladly eat crow if he does well, but I will still hate it.
So if Mahomes leads us to five Super Bowl and Watson flames out of the league you'll still feel this way? Seems silly
Come on, you know the first part of that scenario is crazy and unrealistic. Why are you so dead set that it was a good choice?
Obviously it's hyperbole to prove a point.
I haven't even taken a stance that it was the right pick. None of us have any idea if it was the right pick. I understand the reasoning that went into the decision and trust that the organization made the best decision based on the information and analysis they had. Which is far more information and much better analysis than any of us have access to. Taking a firm stance that this was a bad pick just seems ridiculous to me at this juncture.
I've seen him play in person 3 times. He looks the part, but I'm hugely worried about the system he came out of. Find me more than the odd duck in the pond that was successful in the league coming out of a system anywhere close to what Tech does. He never had to read a defense, especially not post snap. You can't make your decisions in the NFL pre snap, which is exactly what the Tech system does.
I try to give the organization and leadership the benefit of the doubt, and I was a huge fan of the drafting that Dorsey had done in his time with the Chiefs, but I loathe this pick. It's great that he can throw the ball fast and far, but that doesn't mean dick when it comes to playing in the NFL. Especially when it's part of a system that doesn't even throw down field regularly.
And I know it's only a one game sample, but a top 15 drafted QB should never do this bad against Iowa State
These are all fair and valid points that I don't disagree with.
And, personally, I think winning and succeeding in college matters. It's not everything, but if you win to the level that Watson did in college, it's telling on him as a leader
I think it's nice if your QB won in college but I wouldn't weight it very heavily
And I'm being irrational? My take on Mahomes was a little aggressive and I am willing to see how it all plays out. It's my opinion that Watson would have been the better choice because of the body of work he showed in college. Clemson doesn't make it to the national championship twice and win one without Watson. I know his arm strength was a concern, but he just knows how to win. I don't know if Mahomes has had to carry his team to win from being down, but Watson did that in 8-10 games over the course of his career in college. It's more than just championships and winning football games.
It's not irrational to take a flawed statement to one of its logical conclusions to prove a point. Obviously I don't think Mahomes will ever win five super bowls. But it is something that is within the realm of possibility. I was merely pointing out that it's silly to say you'll be against a pick "forever" when we don't know how either of their careers will play out.
It was one preseason game against backups. You can't exactly determine a career path based on it. Watson did look good though. Just to clarify, I actually like Watson and think he'll have a nice career. I just view him as a good, not great, QB in the future. He can start. You can win with him. But I don't think he'll ever be considered elite. And that is what wins championships in today's NFL.