Lawyer thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Jax Teller, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    Only once, and it was a case where I probably should have. Plaintiff admitted in her deposition that she could not say that the store I was defending was the store that she fell in. Plaintiff's counsel still wanted to take a 30(b)(6) deposition, and I said naw dude. We ended up settling for like $1000 because it would have cost more to file the AA claim.
     
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  2. (Z)

    (Z) Well-Known Member
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    A 12(b)(6) was denied, and now they're threatening this. Exit fee may just be going up.

    Just not the way I handle business.
     
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  3. (Z)

    (Z) Well-Known Member
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    Only other one I've ever had threatened, they actually filed for leave to file it as a counterclaim. Judge denies it. They settle case for 7 figures about 1 year later. :laugh:
     
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  4. Gallant Knight

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    got great news from an adjuster yesterday that he thought he could get close to 6 figures on a case with chiro, two mris and 2 injections. that is a fantastic result for a case in montgomery county, texas--one of the most conservative counties in the county with more than 100k residents.

    she is upset and wants over six figures or take it to trial.

    if we try her case i think there is a decent chance we would get half that and consider myself lucky.
     
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  5. Nelson

    Nelson Can somebody please get Ja Rhule on the phone
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    Already have my billable done for the month :feelsgoodman:

    But doing so was :feelsbadman:
     
  6. harvey birdman

    harvey birdman Ha ha! Last laugh.
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    Billable quotas should be quarterly at the very least.
     
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  7. Nelson

    Nelson Can somebody please get Ja Rhule on the phone
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    I don’t have a quota or minimums but try to hit certain targets personally. And agree with you, I generally assess every quarter or so due to natural flux
     
  8. Ray McKigney

    Ray McKigney Feel my ubiquity
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    Write a handwritten note you heathen
     
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  9. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    Already in the mail :bananallama:
     
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  10. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    thats the fake client that just wants like $1500 and then they'll sign up with you right? This scam has gone around multiple states with tons of plaintiff lawyers falling for it.
     
  11. Gallant Knight

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    Yep

    I didn’t fall for it by giving him money but I did drive 90 minutes to Port Arthur to try to meet with a client who didn’t exist

    People must be sending him money if he keeps doing this
     
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  12. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    Had a lady call today said she got in MVA in Mobile when an 18 wheeler rear ended her on I-10 in April of 2018. Said her vehicle was stuck under the 18 wheeler for several hours and that she was in a coma for several months. Said she had multiple fractured vertebrae in her cervical spine. Said she was at Mobile Infirmary for several months then transferred to UMC in Jackson. Then into a nursing home for rehab for several months in Poplarville. But when we called Mobile PD and the highway patrol no one could find a record of it. Also I find it extremely suspicious that someone with such a big MVA hadn't hired a lawyer yet. I immediately sent her a docusign contract after she told me all this and she signed so I guess she's my client now haha. I don't think this is going anywhere though. If it were all somehow true it would obviously be a huge case.
     
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  13. Gallant Knight

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    If that’s true congrats you have a minimum $750k case
     
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  14. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    What do you consider to be a lawyer’s lawyer? What does that entail?
     
  15. 941Gator

    941Gator TMB's resident beach bum
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    Versatile and have the ability to think on their feet. Being focused on one area is obviously the ticket. It will allow you to become an expert, but someone that can handle various cases in different areas is impressive to me (assuming they aren’t a hot mess).
     
  16. BUstang

    BUstang Lawyer

    That sucks man. Can't imagine how mad I would have been.

    That's a policy limit case. Shouldn't have to do anything other than a letter and phone call.
     
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  17. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    Yeah, I think that’s going to be bullshit. Somebody would’ve already signed her up.
     
  18. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    My take on it is a lawyer who knows the game. A lawyer who your respect and think is classy even though he’s on the other side of a case and fighting hard against you. I used to think defense lawyers were always being assholes. But the longer I practice, the more I understand it from both sides. Now I rarely get pissed at defense lawyers. I may get pissed at particular outburst or behavior from specific lawyers but that is just tied directly to them, not their strategy (i.e. a lawyer giving you a bitchy or condescending attitude). I understand why they are doing what they are doing and that it’s not because they necessarily want to do it that way, it’s just how defending a claim works and that’s what the carrier wants them to do.
     
    #8019 RJF-GUMP, Aug 17, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2019
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  19. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    Another attribute of a lawyer's lawyer would be someone that even after a dog fight of a case/hearing/trial comes right back on the next case/after the hearing and is cool, civil, and affable, putting the past in the past and starting fresh/continuing the litigation forward with civility and professionalism. By the way, none of this is easy to do.
     
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  20. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    Mailed the handwritten note. Got a 2nd interview.

    I've been asked about a salary requirement a few times and anticipate getting asked in this interview. Or at least I want to be prepped for it. What are your thoughts on naming a salary requirement when the firm is smaller and there is no salary info on the web?
     
  21. harvey birdman

    harvey birdman Ha ha! Last laugh.
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    Find the average salary in the location/practice area so you can point to a basis for your request. Don't undersell yourself.
     
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  22. bertwing

    bertwing check out the nametag grandma
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    500k
     
  23. Gallant Knight

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    i think thats kind of a horseshit question.

    salary stuff should be clear/straight forward unless you're a higher level associate or bringing in money

    starting entry level people at different salaries is shitty
     
  24. Ray McKigney

    Ray McKigney Feel my ubiquity
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    Congrats. Handwritten notes have never failed me yet.

    Yup. Can’t emphasize enough not selling yourself short. I was underpaid for way too long because I felt somewhat unworthy of a spot with a reputable firm and was just happy to be there.
     
  25. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    I hate the question. I've been asked twice during the initial interview. After I threw out my number/range, I got a 5 second silence and then an "okay."

    One was going to hire me but I pulled out. The other was an interview just last Friday. But I never got any additional information. Just left out there, hanging. I guess it might be standard practice, but it sucks.

    I assume this place is going to ask during my 2nd interview but I would love it if they didn't.
     
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  26. SmoochieWallace

    SmoochieWallace Ipse dixit
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    Just use the Cravath scale.
     
  27. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    I get it. I've been paid jack shit in my first 2 years out of law school, so I am trying to pump myself up and request a salary above what my first initial thought is. The voice in the back of my head goes "are you sure about this???" when I start thinking of shooting high (or what I think is high and is actually average)
     
  28. Gallant Knight

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    which cities are you interviewing in
     
  29. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    In and around Denver. The 2nd interview request is from a firm actually in downtown Denver. Everything else has been in a various suburb of Denver (20 minute drive from Denver).
     
  30. Gallant Knight

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    and what type of work
     
  31. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    firm has just under 10 attorneys. Each partner seemingly dabbles in different areas but I'd say it is a general civil litigation firm focusing on insurance defense, with some construction/commercial/trucking work.
     
  32. Gallant Knight

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    90-95k?
     
  33. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    to the point of possibly underselling yourself, my plan was to do that exact range 10k lower. Thanks for your input

    I'll further research the issue.
     
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  34. Ray McKigney

    Ray McKigney Feel my ubiquity
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    Maybe you can reverse engineer a salary range based on what the firm’s expected associate collections are? Like 1/3 of what your collections expectations are? The managing partner of the first firm I ever worked for mentioned something like they expected that I collect 3x my salary. That was years ago, it was a dog shit workers comp defense firm, and I’ve never heard that theory since then, but that’s all I got.
     
  35. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    They've actually asked you for a number? Twice?

    If asked, maybe answer with something like, "I'd like to be paid the market rate for my experience level and I am willing to work with you, but no matter what I have to take rent, student loans, [other fixed costs] and cost of living into account."
     
  36. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    this was two different initial interviews with two different employers.

    That is a good answer and an example of the type of context I'd like to give when stating my requirement.
     
  37. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Weird. Was it OCI? Maybe it was a weed out question.
     
  38. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    nope. I graduated two years ago and I'd bet that neither firm interviewed more than 3-7 people for the jobs (although I don't know that).
     
  39. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    This generally sounds right for a 2-3 year lawyer in a major city. None of us really know what firms in that area are paying. You really just have to have friends that are in the area and know other people in the area and ask them. But generally a 2nd or 3rd year lawyer at a good insurance defense/civil litigation firm in a city like Denver will be paid $100-120k I'd think. Some of these guys that actually do that kind of work could answer better than me. In a place like Jackson, MS I'd imagine a Butler Snow, Baker Donnelson, Bradly Arrant type firm would be paying a 2nd or 3rd year associate $120ish. It might be a little more than that in Birmingham. I have a friend at a general litigation /insurance defense firm in a city with a metro population of 500k in TN that makes something like $115k a year and has been out of law school for 5 years.
     
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  40. SmoochieWallace

    SmoochieWallace Ipse dixit
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    I'd check out the NALP pages for firms in Denver. Those should tell you what 1st year associates are making at various mid to large firms. These might not be directly on point for your offer given the size of the firm you are interviewing with, but it'll give you a flavor of what other places are paying.
     
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  41. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    bro do you know the billable expectations? That can give you an indication of what you're looking at. Salary completely depends on the type of work and the rates, then it's basically just a math problem. The 1/3 salary, 1/3 overhead, and 1/3 to the firm is generally the "profitable associate" model in smaller defense firms. If it's a high volume, low rate practice, then you're going to be looking at $75-$85 starting even in a market like Denver.

    Also, have you been doing similar work (and billing) before? If not, then the "2-3 years experience" won't really be taken into account in your salary, as bad as that sucks. If you have prior measurables -- i.e., hours billed and receivables -- use those to negotiate.
     
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  42. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    All I have been told is 1800 hours annually, which is obviously on the lower end than other jobs I have interviewed for (was told 160 a months, 1920 a year at another interview). Although I guess that isn't out of the norm for Denver.

    2006 NALP article ------ "In contrast, 60% of offices in Hartford and Nashville set their billable hours requirement at 1,800 hours per year; as did about 40% in a number of other cities, including Wilmington, Portland, OR, Baltimore, Denver, and Seattle."
     
    #8043 bro, Aug 19, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  43. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    Attached Files:

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  44. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    And, truthfully, with only 10 lawyers, that 1800 could be very loose.
     
  45. Gallant Knight

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    1800 * 150 / 3

    Sounds like 90k to me
     
  46. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    Generally, it works backwards. So, if the rate were $150/hr and he realized 100% of his 1800 billables this year, then he'd get a raise to $90k.
     
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  47. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    But, if it's primarily construction work, it'll normally be a higher rate than your run-of-the-mill insurance defense. And, generally, they're more likely to pay your bills so that your realization rate is higher. This is all guessing, though. The best way to gauge would be to ask a friend at a similarly situated firm.
     
  48. Gallant Knight

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    Or just ask the firm their average hourly rate and pull our your phone and do some math
     
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  49. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    Had a lawyer today tell me one of the reasons why he wanted a depo of a doctor moved was because we had agreed on a date but I hadn't noticed it yet so he booked something else in that time slot. I've never heard of that in my life. If you and I agree on a date for a doctor's depo, I'm going to block it off on my calendar regardless of whether you notice it or not. Pretty sure he just double booked himself by accident and was trying to use that as an excuse. I was trying to be a lawyer's lawyer so I didn't bitch about it and just moved it even though it was impossible to get the dates and I had already written the check (refundable).