Lawyer thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Jax Teller, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. Ray McKigney

    Ray McKigney Feel my ubiquity
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    I haven’t. And while I understand your larger point, I guess my thought is that I can continue doing what I am doing and making good money, without having to maintain an air of trying to do what it takes to make partner at my current firm, which is the current expectation. If this were a move to another firm just to remain on the partner track, I wouldn’t consider it. Being on the partner track is my problem, not the firm.
     
  2. Bo Pelinis

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    Honestly the best thing about in-house is not tracking time. Fuck all that.
     
  3. Ray McKigney

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    If I weren’t married with a kid, we’d be hiking in the Washington mountains this weekend.
     
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  4. Big Meech

    Big Meech I like turtles
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    just my :twocents:

    If being a partner is not something in which you are interested, you are better off moving in house. When we discussed making an associate a partner or making a NE partner an equity, some of what y'all just said would have been the kiss of death. Even as a NE partner, unless you provide some amazing niche practice, you are always looked at as expendable.
     
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  5. Nug

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    Not sure, honestly. I've hastily crunched some numbers, but not sure of the expenses and overall revenue stream. I've also though about offering to give up most fringe benefits (bonuses, 401k, etc.), but only keep medical insurance. It's 2-3 years down the line, but we will see.
     
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  6. Gallant Knight

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    If you want to go from partner track to non partner track there are probably a boat load of firms who would like to have you work and not have to worry about promoting you

    Go talk with a recruiter about going in house. That 5-7 years experience isn’t a hard and fast rule. I know plenty of guys who worked for 3 years at Vinson Elkins in Houston and left with a 20% pay cut and are working 45 hours a week
     
  7. Nug

    Nug MexicanNug
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    There's also this, and I'm 100% aware.

    And to add on, it makes me feel a little bad that the firm is footing the bill on getting me admitted in Oregon. I'd be the 3rd lawyer of a 30+ lawyer firm to be licensed in both WA and OR. They certainly didn't do this out of the goodness of their hearts; I realize it was an investment.

    But at the same time, I understand they would fire me as soon as I'm not making them money, so I don't exactly lose sleep over it. The OR license could be good leverage when wanting to go part-time.
     
    #8607 Nug, Oct 7, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2019
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  8. Ray McKigney

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    Agree with all. Again, what I am contemplating is a temporary (2-3 year band aid) for a larger problem: not wanting to put in the time anymore to be a partner but also wanting to keep that thought to myself. I am not a particularly duplicitous person, and I think the thought of continuing as I am, knowing what I do and don’t want, will be tough for me to do. This potential opportunity, at least theoretically, allows me to rid myself of having to feign intent to be a partner, make the same good money I’ve been making, while figuring out how I want to spend the rest of my career.

    Who the fuck knows.
     
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  9. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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  10. Ray McKigney

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    Your first paragraph is what is occurring and what prompted my question in the first place. I have an arguably more prestigious firm offering the same money, to do less work, and not have to worry about promoting me.
     
  11. Ray McKigney

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    Employment
     
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  12. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
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    You’re not going to have any difficulty going in house. I’d contact a recruiter and skip the bandaid.
     
  13. Big Meech

    Big Meech I like turtles
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    Again, just my :twocents: but I would not worry about the prestige or name of a firm. Find a place where you enjoy the people and, as much as possible, the work. That was a lot of what went into my decision and I love it.
     
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  14. Big Meech

    Big Meech I like turtles
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    Yeah, employment is a fantastic niche for going in house.
     
  15. Ray McKigney

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    Greatly appreciate everyone’s thoughts.
     
  16. CoastalOrange

    CoastalOrange Well-Known Member
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    I only worked 1 year with a small PL L&E firm before jumping in-house. Though I took a weird route because I absolutely hated my job at the firm (I have realized over the years that it was just a really shitty situation and not necessarily the law side of it) and jumped at a really low level position in-house just to get my foot in the door. Luckily it has worked out but some thoughts:

    - In-house is pretty fantastic but there are still plenty of stresses. There are times where I have to work weekends and later in the evenings but they are few and far between. You are still answering to others and you still have that drive to be a great employee (hence the drive to be an atty in the first place) so it still creates some stress. Those ridiculous deadlines that you get from your clients as a DF lawyer don't exactly change, you still have those ridiculous deadlines. The difference is now you are part of the company so you can, in a PC manner, let them know they are being unrealistic and that you will get to it when you can.
    - There are frustrations since, as a cost center, you don't really have much authority to make decisions for the business. Obviously this is not the case in all companies, but the ones that I have worked for have been more of an advise and guidance type role. I can only remember a few times where I truly stepped in and put a stop to a situation. Other than that, it is advise and let the business make the decision. This can be a challenge for some people.
    - A LOT of companies would love a L&E focused attorney. You should be fine in finding a job in-house if that is what you want. Hell, we have a legal dept of 3 (GC, my co-worker, and myself) and my co-worker is a L&E focused attorney. Look at any company that has a ton of EEs, especially manufacturing ones as manufacturing plants are worse than elementary schools when it comes to stupid shit.
    - I wouldn't let the money detract you. I obviously don't know the money involved at larger firms but I have 2 close friends in my area (upstate SC) who are lawyers. One is on the PL side and one is a partner on the DF side. I make around $30k less than the PL (eat what you kill type situation and he has had a number of solid years recently) and only around $20-30k less than the DF side. So while it is less, I am not exactly struggling. The question is whether the stress and time for that extra $20-30k is worth it or not? For me, even without a wife or kids, it was not. With that said, I recently found that I am being paid quite a bit less than my market value so I will be having a conversation with my supervisor on that issue shortly. If that works out, if they even pay me half of the difference between what I am making and what I should be making, I will be right up there with the PL and DF guys.

    Any other in-house questions, please feel free to reach out.
     
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  17. Ray McKigney

    Ray McKigney Feel my ubiquity
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    Appreciate your perspective. Thanks for taking the time to type that out.

    I actually came to my current position from an Upstate SC defense firm, so it’s always good to get a more “local”point of view. I have no misconception that going in house is some magical, stress free Xanadu. I hope my inquiry isn’t construed as me seeking a stress-free, easy job in the law or even thinking one exists.

    This is all borne of my recent realization that I don’t necessarily want to continue on the partner track path and how to handle that. After coming to this realization and then coming to terms with this realization, my struggle has been how to handle this realization going forward.

    Coincidentally, this other firm showed interest in me for this non-partner track position. The more I learned about it, the more I believed it to be right for me, but obviously I still have reservations and concerns, as illustrated by my seeking counsel from fellow TMB attorneys.

    To your point on the money, I make plenty of money as far as I am concerned and would continue making the same with this new shop, just without having to do all the business development work and no annual billable requirement. I have worked hard my entire career and will continue to do that, be it in a firm or in house. It’s really all about whether the extra money I could make as a partner is worth the sacrifice.
     
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  18. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    So I spent like 6 hours yesterday prepping for a video deposition of one of my clients treating docs in a commercial vehicle injury case. Get there this morning at 7AM and the court reporting company didn't bring the videographer. Had to take it on my cell phone.
     
  19. Gallant Knight

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    trying to figure out vacation days for staff. stuff i hadn't really considered and now that christmas and new years are on a wednesday people are obviously trying to work that to taking off a big chunk of time.

    i told staff 10 days vacation and basically unlimited paid sick days and that the 10 days isn't a hard and fast rule.

    now a girl who was out a week in mexico and took off two days earlier this year is saying she has 10 days left even though last week she wasn't here because of a "flat tire"

    they're also asking what happens to their vacation days if they dont' use them

    how do yalls firms handle vacation and sick days for staff?
     
  20. BUstang

    BUstang Lawyer

    What is a vacation?
     
  21. Bo Pelinis

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    It’s this thing where you don’t physically go in but still take phone calls and check emails and have the same stress levels.
     
  22. colonel_forbin

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    No hard and fast rule on any of it. We're pretty understanding. Everyone except one person on the staff usually works more than 8 hours a day anyway, so it evens out. Just need enough of am advance heads-up. And also to know when big trials are and schedule around that.
     
  23. Gallant Knight

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    That’s sort of what I thought we had where you can take off but don’t be unreasonable but now they’re asking about unused vacation time and I can already tell they’re trying to take off Christmas week and New Years week and be like well I have 7 days!!!
     
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  24. Gallant Knight

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    Yes I am looking forward March 2020 for my first full week off since 2015
     
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  25. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    we don't distinguish between sick/vacation/ etc. You get 10 PTO days + 2 more a year for every year with firm until you get to 20. You can't get more than 20. Of course that doesn't count all the holidays we give off. We found that was pretty much in line with most other firms around here.
     
  26. Gallant Knight

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    10 days when it includes sick days seems pretty light IMO
     
  27. colonel_forbin

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    It just depends on how good they are. Gotta take care of the good ones or else you'll lose them.

    I also bought my main assistant a laptop and she regularly does work from home at like 9 at night. So it evens out.
     
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  28. Rusty Shackleford

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    Not an attorney but a small business owner for all of 5 months so take it for what you will. New Years and Christmas on a Wednesday sucks.

    You either have to be really lax with everyone about it and deal with the repercussions or be fair. If you are lax on it someone is going to take advantage of it.

    Do you have written policies for this? That is my go to response. What does the manual say.

    I would also max the rollover days they can have. For example my employees can only carry over three per year. I told them that if they have a specific trip they are saving up for I will roll more but I have to know. Pay them at their yearly anniversary so payroll doesn’t suck in December.
     
  29. Why?Pokes

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    Is Xmas/NY a busy time for you? Court’s always closed and other firms aren’t trying to do shit, IME. I never had any issues taking a week, week and a half off around then. :idk:
     
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  30. Gallant Knight

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    It’s slower than normal but we have to have people in the office
     
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  31. SmoochieWallace

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    Not always. I’ve had several judges over the years schedule substantive hearings/trials for the first week in January because they think it will encourage a settlement.
     
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  32. Gallant Knight

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    The only one being a pain in the ass about it is the one who claims she still has seven days and didn’t count a day she took off because of a flat tire

    I pay above market rate and give bonuses throughout the year and generally just try to be a good boss so the majority of my staff is willing to work hard

    I think me basically never taking time off helps too. If I was never in the office and asking then to work all the tine I’m sure they’d be like screw this dude
     
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  33. colonel_forbin

    colonel_forbin Well-Known Member
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    Gotta have people on the phones. Other people might slow down, but not PI clients.
     
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  34. bertwing

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    Going to a sportsbook in Vegas for March Madness?
     
  35. Gallant Knight

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    Honeymoon
     
  36. bertwing

    bertwing check out the nametag grandma
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    Oh boy

    Keep Tilly on retainer
     
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  37. Tilly

    Tilly Souf Cack
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  38. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    I disbursed a MVA settlement to a client today. He walked out at the same time as one of our paralegals. She called my other paralegal to say that right when he walked out he screamed "Cha ching" It was only a $17,500 settlement but I guess he was happy.
     
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  39. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
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    Is it proper to say this in closing or would you move for a mistrial? I know state by state has different rules:


    o Conduct that you give a pass is conduct that will happen again

    o In your verdict today you can determine whether this is going to happen again. Your verdict will have that effect.
     
  40. El Tiburon

    El Tiburon Well-Known Member
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    Conscience of community arguments will get you reversed unless there’s punitives involved.
     
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  41. Gallant Knight

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    Asked my legal assistant to reach out to client for a dec page to see if she has underinsured motorist coverage because third party only has $30k and she is going to see an ortho. The clients response:

    Hello, Renita

    I'm not quite sure what you mean and I dont know why my insurance is involved. Why would my inurance have to pay for anything. And as of yet I havent seen Orthro or receive an appointment, its been almost a month. Also do I meet my attorney or you, for 33% of my settlement what services am I getting and frankly speaking I don't really prefer taking care of important conversation through emails or texting. Actually I am revisiting the attorney representation process. Thank you.
     
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  42. dome foam

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    Feel your pain.
    If you cut bait, you get a bad Google review.
    If you continue, you get a bad Google review plus have to our up with her bullshit.

    Have fun!
     
  43. Gallant Knight

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    People who pay for PIP and UM/UIM are some of the more stupid people on the planet. Why are you paying for those coverages if you are refusing to use them. Have had clients who have paid for underinsured coverage for 20-30 years, never made a claim, and then refuse to let us open a claim to use it

    Cool you’ve paid $30,000 over 20+ years to have that coverage and then when it’s time to finally use it you don’t want to? You are the insurance industries perfect client
     
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  44. Gallant Knight

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    Also, GEICO might be taking a play out of Allstate’s playbook when it comes to underinsured claims. We received two offers on underinsured demands this week

    1 got $30k from 3P, client has $115,000 on meds and they offered $9k

    2 for $30k from 3P, client has $62,000 in meds and they offered $0
     
  45. buy_dont_lease

    buy_dont_lease Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
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    Remind me, I know you answered this recently, but when you post med numbers ITT are those paid/incurred, or are those figures before adjustment?

    Because I do work for a variety of personal lines carriers in addition to the commercial lines work we do, and I cannot conceive of an instance where the carrier would only offer $9k on $115k of actually paid/incurred meds--even with a $30k credit--barring a major liability dispute or an egregious claim on Plaintiff's part that treatments are related when they are clearly not. Full disclosure, I do not do work for Allstate.
     
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  46. dome foam

    dome foam ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Are you saying you shouldn’t purchase UM/UIM?
     
  47. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Not in law, but 10 days PTO starting off is pretty standard, or a week of vacation and a week of sick

    Giving unlimited sick days is gunna get taken advantage of, especially with blurry lines between vacation and sick days
    I.e. a flat tire is a free 'sick' day, so it doesn't count

    And obviously you are tracking their days, but you have to force them too as well.
    We do it by making employees turn in requests for vacation that includes filling out blanks such as "days available " and "days requested'
    Sounds silly, but it forces you to go in the system and look up exactly what you have used/available
     
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  48. Gallant Knight

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    Whenever I say meds it’s always the paid/incurred amount.

    Liability is clear and the PD is moderate. She went to ER day of wreck

    These insurance companies have just decided that they can either pay $50k policy limit underinsured or make us spend time and money and get a verdict for the $50k and pay the same amount. They don’t have to worry about defense costs because they’ll just give it to one of their in house geico or Allstate lawyers

    And if they get popped for big money they’ll cut the check for $50k and if they get a verdict for $40k then they saved geico 10
     
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  49. Gallant Knight

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    I have $100k PIP and $1m UM/UIM

    I’m saying you shouldn’t buy it if when it comes time to actually use it you don’t allow us to
     
  50. buy_dont_lease

    buy_dont_lease Ha ha ha. What a story, Mark.
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    You should relocate your practice to a non-urban county and deal with more farm mutual insurers, who do not operate that way.
     
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