It is definitely the tip of the iceberg. You're flying through it which is good because GotM is rough for most people. It gets so much better as the books go on.
Personally, I almost hate Esselmont so I would read the main story 1-10 and then go back to Esselmont. That's just because the writing is so much poorer. That bring said, u can't go wrong either way. The stories really do no affect each other by being chronological. There is one big event that you miss by going 1-10 but it doesn't affect anything.
Gardens of the Moon thoughts spoilered. Spoiler Okay, this one will be pretty short. Why? If you're reading this, you probably know why. I liked this book, but I would be lying if I said that I loved it. I think that's a common sentiment, from the reviews and discussion that I've read around this series. What am I impressed with? Namely, the scope and the world. Lots of detail, lots of investment. As I said before, this is likely the tip of the iceberg and that's exciting to me. Erikson challenges the reader, which I admire, by dropping us in the middle of conflict and a storyline without much assistance and that's fine. All will become clear in time. What that creates, though, is a bog that we have to slog through. Again, that's fine with me. I knew it was coming beforehand. And, honestly, it wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. I still understood a lot of what was happening, even if the why or the how still eludes me. I've seen some rankings of this series by book, and GotM is almost always in the bottom third, so things are looking up. As far as actual storyline goes, this is a behemoth of plot and breadth and so I feel a lot like I did when I read The Eye of the World in that I still don't really know what's going on and what the main story is. Yeah, I have a sense of general conflict but I'm still very much in sweet-summer-child/You-know-nothing-Jon-Snow mode. I'm starting Deadhouse Gates next and I'm looking forward to hopefully getting a bit better of an understanding. I'll post thoughts upon completion, and hopefully they can be more focused on the actual story at hand. One final thought before I leave: there are some cool names in this series (I'm partial to Whiskeyjack).
Yep I feel like your thoughts mirror everyone elses. I'm on book 7 now and I feel like Gardens of the Moon might as well have been a book in a different series and I mean that as a great thing. It gets so good.
Deadhouse Gates is probably top 3 in the series for me. Definitely where the hook was for me. Gardens of the Moon is definitely bottom 2 for me. However, when I read the series a 2nd time I enjoyed GOM much more. I can say that for almost all of the books, though. So many hints and history that matters that there is just no way to catch the first time through.
GOTM was one of the hardest to get through for me. I'm on book six now and very much into it. Before I started these I read a blog post naming this series the War and Peace of fantasy novels. So with that info going into it you can be ready for a difficult investment but worth it in the long run. Honestly I wouldn't compare these books to The Wheel of Time. That story line builds from the ground up with Rand being the first character you connect with. The Malazan books drop you right in the middle of the conflict and keep you guessing all the way through who the most important characters will be.
My comparison to WoT wasn't really to say they're similar in plot, just to say that outside of a vague introduction to an overarching conflict (in WoT's case, light vs. The Dark One) I didn't really understand how the world works or what was really happening, similar to how I felt after finishing GotM. The actual plot of WoT is much more linear, at least from what I've read.
Deadhouse Gates thoughts Spoiler I'm typing this on my phone so my apologies for any typos. Due to a copious amount of free time over the holidays, I was able to fly through Deadhouse Gates in about 4 days. This one is longer than GotM--about 280k words compared to 200k. But I thought this was an easier read. I'm not sure if it was due to growing familiarity with the world, a better understanding of how Erikson writes, or if it was just a conscience decision by Erikson himself, but I thought Deadhouse Gates was a much more accessible novel in terms of prose. I'm not sure where I would make the distinctions, but in GotM I had to reread a lot of sections to understand what was happening and there were some passages in the book that I felt were written in an opaque manner. What I mean by that is that they were intentionally vague and setting up the future rather than giving instant gratification. You all may completely disagree, but in the end as I was reading Deadhouse I thought that this was a more enjoyable read. Now, for the actual plot this book had a lot of new characters. Pretty much the only storyline that carried over from GotM was Crokus/Apsalar/Fiddler. Apsalar finds her father in Servant, and they join Icarium and Mappo. I thought Icarium's father's reveal in Deadhouse was pretty cool. I'm curious to see where they go from there. The introduction of Felisin was probably the most intriguing storyline to me. She was briefly mentioned in GotM if I remember correctly, and wasn't she described as a good, if even naive, girl? Either way, her arc in this book from using her body in the otataral mine to becoming Sha'ik Reborn is pretty fascinating. I enjoyed her interplay with Heboric and Baudin. I look forward to her meeting with her older sister, the new Adjunct. The Chain of Dogs plot line was ok, but there were parts in that one that sort of lulled for me. The ending outside of Aren, though, was pretty brutal. I'm very intrigued by what they do with Duiker's remains. I usually hate character revivals, but we'll see where this one takes me. I have a feeling it won't be a cheap revival like I've seen in other series. Overall, the story is pretty complex and engaging. I'd say this book was much better than GotM. I'm taking a quick break before I start some of the novellas leading into Memories of Ice. I've read that MoI is in parallel with Deadhouse, featuring the other characters (similar to Feast for Crows). I'm interested in Paran's reaction to the news of his sister, if he finds out at all. Should be good.
Agree with pretty much everything you said, don't remember the Chain of Dogs lulling that much, it was my favorite part of the novel but that's in hindsight
Not really a spoiler but I guess it reveals that a character is still alive 1/3 of the way through Reaper's Gale Spoiler Karsa Orlong is a god damned video game cheat code And I fucking love it.
Starting Wurms of Blearmouth today. Read Blood Follows and Lees of Laughter's End over the past few days. I'll post more complete thoughts once I finish this one since the list moves into MoI next, but I liked Lees of Laughter's End better than Blood Follows.
Blood Follows was my least favorite, I thought Lees and Wurms were much better and funnier. I've always been a big fan of dark comedies though. The Healthy Dead which you'll get to later is my favorite so far, still have Crack'd Pot Trail to go.
About 20% through MoI. Though their styles are completely different, I really think Erikson's writing ability is on par with Rothfuss.
I finally started Reaper's Gale last night after finishing up some books that I promised myself I would read in 2015. It feels damn good to be back. Redmask is a fucking boss. Spoiler His speech to the Awl was so cool - "You mouth the echoes, yet quail from the source" just an awesome line amongst many
Memories of Ice thoughts spoilered. Spoiler On my phone, so I apologize for any typos. I'll get the overall opinion out of the way first before I dive into the plot: this was my favorite book of the series so far. I'm going to use Wikipedia to help remember specific plot points as I go. The book starts a few months after the ending of Gardens of the Moon. Whiskeyjack, Anomander Rake, Caladan Brood, and the White Face Bhargast all join up to fight the Pannion Domin. This makes for some cool interactions and dialogue. Trotts killing the Bhargast son was a fun scene. They fight at Capustan where a couple of things happen. Itkovian takes a bunch of suffering upon himself, but Fener's inability to alleviate comes into play from the Deadhouse Gates scene (which answered some confusion I still had from book 2). Gruntle becomes a resident bad ass as the Mortal Sword of Trake, killing a bunch of enemies. Meanwhile, Toc the Younger meets up with Tool and Lady Envy, who is Draconus' daughter. There's a couple of important distinctions about this company because Fanderay is present in the ay and is an elder God, while Tool is an important member of the T'Lan Imass. The Seer moves to Coral, which, for some reason, I think is a really cool name for a city. Toc is captured and tortured. Most of this stuff were actions that I just took at face value. They moved the plot, and while I thought they were cool and interesting I didn't have much further opinion on them. At Coral, the Bridgeburners arrive (first in, last out) and Quick Ben, with the help of sticksnare Talamandas (for some reason I imagined baby Groot) trap the Seer. Kallor kills Whiskeyjack and I got pissed, even when I knew the repeated references to his messed up leg were an ill omen. Kallor wants rank in the House of Chains, so I'm hoping for retribution in book 4. Anomander Rake shows up with Moon's Spawn, which is pretty much ruined after being submersed in the ocean, and destroys the last of the Pannion. That was a cool moment. Meanwhile, new characters got introduced including the Mhybe, who just annoyed me all book, who is Tattersail/Nightchill Reborn's mother and Silverfox. I did like the inverse curse of Siverfox's growing up and leeching the Mhybe's life away. Silverfox and Paran's interplay was almost always awkward. I also thought Silverfox's meeting with the T'Ian Imass was a bit of a let down. Speaking of Paran, he is now Master of the Deck and is forced to assume another role of responsibility that he obviously doesn't want. I love the use of a system of basically tarot cards in this series and their impact on the story. Gods and Ascension are a fine line to walk to me; it's either awesome or hoky. Paran helps rescue the Seer's sister from the rift, who was stuck there for protection from Pran Chole. That scene was interesting, if just to understand the back story of things and the drivers behind the Seer's action. The Seer slows Burn's poisoning by the Crippled God, who was the Seer's sponsor. At the end of the book, Toc is Reborn in Anaster's body. The whole child of the dead seed subplot was pretty weird, but I'm glad Toc is still around. The plot was pretty involved and there's a lot I left out, but things I didn't mention were the Seguleh and Tools battles (pretty cool) and Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, who are like a messed up Rosencrantz and Guildenstern. The plot did drag a bit for me in the middle, but that's natural with a 360k word book. Sometimes Erikson's insistence on constant gloom can be waring, but the man has so much natural talent as a writer that it balances out. I was hoping Paran would learn a little more about his sisters, but all will become clear eventually. Looking forward to #4.
Good stuff, appreciate you naming a few of the plot points as this book and its events seem like forever ago. I agree with most of what you said. I fucking loved Book 4 too. All I have to say is Karsa Fucking Orlong.
The book is so complicated that I basically have to rework through the plot just to remember my thoughts.
Totally agree with how complicated they are, these books are definitely some of the hardest fantasy novels to follow. I'm just starting reapers gale and love it already at 5%. Spoiler I almost enjoy the Letherii story line more than the malazan side. I feels like it's a little more grounded, with not as many characters to keep track of. But let me get into reapers gale because 10 more important people might get brought into the story.
73% through Reaper's Gale Spoiler Tehol and Janath have been arrested and Bugg is trapped in the alter. Damn you Errant!! On the bright side the two headed bug is slowly driving Karos Invictad insane
84% through Reaper's Gale Umm...... Spoiler Redmask slaughtered by his own K'Chain Che'Malle? Starting to wonder what the point of this whole storyline was. Maybe it was all about moving Toc's storyline forward? We'll see. I'm posting this literally after the sentence confirming Redmask was dead. Loving the Malazan run from the coast to Letheras. Amazing stuff so far. RIP Beak. Loved Hood meeting him at the gate. Ending if this book should be epic. A few pages later, still 84% Spoiler Toc is dead too. WHAT THE FUCK. Now the white face Barghast appear for the first time since MoI... One page farther Spoiler AND TOOL WAS RIGHT THERE TO SEE HIM DIE?!??!? WHAT THE FUCK
Finished Reaper's Gale Spoiler So yeah the Awl / Redmask / Toc storyline just rang really hollow to me. Maybe it will influence events later but as of now it seems completely unnecessary. Erikson culled a lot of characters at the end which I'm glad he did because the sheer number of characters was getting to be overwhelming. Really hurt when Trull was killed by that shitty fucking Syrrin piece of shit. Fuck the Errant too. Bugg said he had a nice talk with him when he showed up on Seren's doorstep at the end but I hope we get more than that. Loved Fiddler almost nonchalantly firing a cusser at Silchas Ruin, followed up by Hedge showing up and launching a cusser of his own. Seen Quick Ben launch some SERIOUS sorcery here lately, first against the Sisters of Shadow and now against Silchas Ruin. Has he always had this much power and has held back or has something changed with him. I liked Brys's character so I'm okay with him coming back, but it would be nice for some characters to die and stay dead. Emperor Tehol Karsa of course is a bad ass. Wished his clash with Rhulad had been a little more epic, but I'm fine with it. How did he know what he was supposed to do though? Also I don't see why he didn't try to kill the Crippled God right there. Doesn't seem to go with his personality. I see the next book heads back to Darujhistan and Black Coral. Bring on Kruppe and Rake! But first I'll be reading Crack'd Pot Trail and Return of the Crimson Guard
Halfway through Crack'd Pot Trail.... so this is basically a Bauchelain and Korbal Broach story, without Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. Instead its a bunch of pilgrams in a fucked up version of the Canterbury Tales...
Just jumped back in and finished midnight tides. So much crazy shit happening. This takes place well before the malazhan empire or at the same time just a different place?
Spoiler same time, different place. This place was isolated by Gothos's ice ritual from the prologue which shielded the place from death, that's why there are ghosts and wraiths everywhere and why they still use ancient hold magic and have no knowledge of the outside world and the holds.
Hello everyone. Just discovered this thread. Been on TMB for 6+ years and pretty much never venture outside of the Michigan team board. That said, MBotF is my favorite series ever so I figured I'd pop in here. FWIW, ive read the main series all the way through (thrice) and Forge of Darkness, as well as ICE's six books (new one coming out this year apparently), but none of of the novellas. Cheers.
I finally tried to pick this one back up, but yeah, I have to start over. Totally lost after a year and a half later.
Do it. GoTM is much easier to re-read than to read the first time, especially once you've made it through MoI. And don't try reading any of the ICE books until you finish Erikson; you'll just spoiler the main series and make it less enjoyable.
I've been reading Esslemont's books in the order I posted in the OP and haven't had anything spoiled. I'm about to Start Return of the Crimson Guard before Toll the Hounds. Took a short break to read the new Sanderson book. May wait until after Calamity comes out to jump back in.
If you had kept going, you definitely would have. There are events in Orb, Scepter, Throne that completely spoil some of the major plot points from Toll The Hounds, and beyond.
House of Chains thoughts spoilered. This one took me a little longer due to not having as much time to read. Liked it quite a lot though. I don't know if I liked it more than Deadhouse, but I probably liked it as much. Spoiler I don't have a detailed plot summary that I'm referring to so these thoughts will be a bit shorter than usual, since I can't remember everything offhand (Erikson's complexity has its pros and cons). First off, I loved Karsa Orlong/Toblakai. I liked his maturation from the beginning of the book to the end (his way of viewing the world and picking fights). The moment that sticks out in my mind (maybe because it's towards the end) is him killing the Hounds (they had a more specific name but, again, I don't have that available and I don't remember it offhand). Long story short--dude's a badass. Only question is if he's a little too strong, but I'm assuming that gets straightened out. The Apsalar/Crokus storyline was okay. There was a duality/divergence factor that was nice, and I think Cotillion is pretty cool so his involvement is always enjoyable. The Tavore/Sha'ik meeting wasn't quite as exciting as I was expecting (maybe it was because I read the last 100 pages over the span of a few days so the impact was deadened a bit), but Sha'ik/Felisin's death was a bit of a surprise for me. I wasn't too emotionally impacted by it either, though I understand what Erikson was going for with the moment (her looking back on how shitty her life was). Again, this was probably due to reading the ending over several days and breaking up the scenes. The future with Felisin younger figures to be promising, so I'm curious where we go from here. Bridgeburner Ascension was also pretty cool (Hedge was a good moment) but I'll be honest: not too sure what it means. I'm probably forgetting quite a lot, so if I didn't address something that you want me to cover, just bring it up and I'll post my thoughts.
Next you've got my favorite of the Bauchelain novellas if you choose to go that route. If not it's Midnight Tides with Tehol and Bugg
Finished The Healthy Dead. Not much to say other than Erikson's style really fits these stories well (weird, offbeat black comedies).
Preordered the new ICE book a few days ago on amazon. I will read it, then get pissed at ICE for his writing, then read it again.
I'm actually stoked for Dancer's Lament. The thing about ICE that's interesting is that, at least in my opinion, he gets notably better with every book. His transition as a writer from RotCG to Assail is pretty remarkable. But yeah, he's still not Erikson.
I would agree with that except for Assail. Thought it was a huge step backwards. Also, thought it involved storyline that he should have just stayed away from.
Almost finished with knight of knives. Was a little hard for me to get into initially but it has definitely picked up. I do enjoy getting some back story. Gonna continue with the order in the OP even if I did fuck up and spoil myself on a huge event thanks to wiking stupidly.
Finished Night of Knives last night. The beginning was tuff for me to get into but it definitely picked up and I still enjoyed it.