More shit POC can't do in public

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Prospector, Feb 25, 2019.

  1. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    again, the real vs. fake is in response to your "riner only believes real racism happens to whites and maybe Asians". Insinuating that when whites or "maybe Asians" are victims of racism, then it's real, but otherwise it's not.

    Wrong. Wrong.

    It's either racist or it's not. And that applies to Asains, whites, blacks, etc. etc. etc.
     
  2. VaxRule

    VaxRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    I just like that riner came in with a “that’s not true” response to my post from a while ago and then proceeded to confirm my post was 100% accurate with everything he typed after that.
     
  3. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    To be more specific, we are conditioned to assign racist motives.

    So when we see a cop use excessive force against a white kid, or a woman, or a man in handcuffs, that's an asshole cop. When we see a cop use that same excessive force against a black kid, a black woman, or a black man in handcuffs, that's a racist cop. We assign racist motives unless proven otherwise.
     
  4. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    LOL what? your position: riner thinks real racism can only happen to whites or Asians

    my position: racism can happen to anyone

    OMG he's confirming what I said!!!!
     
  5. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    This is such a fundamental misunderstanding of how systemic racism works that I wonder if you've ever mastered anything trickier than tying your shoelaces
     
  6. NCHusker

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    Also there's plenty of evidence that lots of individual cops are in fact racist so I don't know how it's productive to dismiss that obvious possibility
     
  7. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Busted. I wear mostly velcro

    Understand I'm not saying a cop abusing a black person is never racism. I'm saying it's not always racism.

    This thread is a good example of what I'm talking about.
     
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  8. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Liked for the self deprication
     
  9. NCHusker

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    You're missing the point though. If you're just trying to look at the individual interactions to try to assign racist intent to the officers involved you're ignoring the larger picture that police work as a whole in America is racist
     
  10. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    This works both ways, to illustrate the point. If I agree that policing in America is racist, there are still going to be people within the police force who are not racist, right? So if that non-racist person pulls a black guy over for having a tail light out, is that racist? Simply because it's a cop pulling over a black person?

    And the other way, if American police forces are not inherently racist, there will still be racist cops who will commit racist acts.

    I don't think it's fair, accurate, or helpful to paint every cop with the same broad brush. I think exposure to the kinds of things we are talking about; white cops acting out against POC, sometimes innocent POC, influences how we feel and think about this. The more we see it, the more prevalent we think it is.

    Like I said, this thread is a good example of what I'm saying. A white woman calling the cops on black kids doing something totally innocuous. Is that racist? Could be. She might be as racist as anyone on the planet. Or she might just be a giant raging bitch. Absent any evidence of racism, why do we assign racist motives? The fact that she's white and the kids are black is sufficient evidence of racism?

    Why do you think police work as a whole in America is racist?
     
  11. Mister Me Too

    Mister Me Too Well-Known Member
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    He doesn’t believe that systemic racism exists, he also doesn’t believe that stop and frisk is racist despite shit like this:

     
  12. NCHusker

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    Pick any metric you like
     
  13. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Is evidence a metric? We are talking about the entire system being inherently racist, not just individual actors (even lots of actors) within the system, right?

    Would that imply that it's not possible for a cop to NOT be racist? That all cops are racist to varying degrees?
     
  14. Prospector

    Prospector I am not a new member
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    gotta add, sit in seat to charge your laptop and work quietly
    skip principal's office, call the cops


    Ball State professor suspended after calling cops on black student for refusing to switch seats


    [​IMG]
    Ball State University student Sultan Benson (left) speaks at a rally after a professor called police on him for refusing to change seats.

    An Indiana professor who called police on a black student for refusing to switch seats in his class has been temporarily barred from teaching on the campus following viral video of the encounter and a student protest. Shaheen Borna, a marketing professor, “will not be teaching classes for the remainder of the semester,” the university said in a statement emailed to Daily Kos Tuesday. Video of the encounter posted by The Star Press in Muncie shows at least two officers arriving at Borna’s classroom on Jan. 21 after he’d called the police.

    "Alright, do you want to sit here or do you want to leave?" a police officer could be seen asking Benson at one point in the recording. "Why am I moving in the middle of class?” Benson asked in response. He then began explaining that he was simply working on a PowerPoint presentation when Borna stopped the class and tried to get him to change his seat to one closer to the front. “Are you interrupting the class?” the officer asked. “No,” Benson said, with other students chiming in to support his response.


    They tried to explain that Benson had been working on his PowerPoint the whole time and hadn’t said a word, but the student instead decided to defuse the situation by leaving. "It's cool,” he said. “You know what, I'ma leave.” He did, and later spoke at the rally students organized to support him. "You gon call the police while I'm paying attention to what you're teaching?" Benson asked rhetorically. "You gon call the police while the rest of these students out here trying to learn?” The decision could have cost him his life. “I could have been perceived as a threat," Benson said. "I'm not a threat to anybody."

    The university said in its statement that having Borna stop teaching this semester “is in the best interest of Dr. Borna and the University.” “The Dean of the Miller College of Business, in consultation with the Provost, made this decision to ensure that we provide continuity in the curriculum, eliminate any unnecessary distractions, and help our students complete the appropriate course expectations,” the school said. Geoffrey Mearns, president of the university, said in a statement released to the campus Tuesday that he has been meeting with students and other community partners to find ways to "build a more inclusive, respectful campus culture." “Over the past four weeks, I have met with several groups and many people, both on campus and in our community,” he said. “These colleagues and friends have candidly shared with me their perspectives and their expectations. These meetings have been informative and constructive.”

    Mearns said the university had begun the work of building a more inclusive campus even before the incident in question, with a list of goals dubbed the Inclusive Excellence Plan, which was released before Benson was made to leave class. Mearns asked for patience as he plans to continue meeting with school community members and prepare a response to the requests and recommendations that come out of those meetings. “Second, and more importantly, I ask that you join me as partners in this important work,” he said in his statement. “Our goal is an ambitious one: to create a campus climate and culture where every person is welcome, respected, and valued. We can only achieve this goal if we join our voices and our hands together.”
     
  15. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Do we know any more info on this? Why was he asked to change seats?

    What about this interaction points to racism? (again, not saying it isn't, that professor could hate black people, but nothing in what I'm seeing here points to that)
     
  16. Prospector

    Prospector I am not a new member
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    1. I didn't look for any
    2. I read some of the Twitter comments and seems to have a past that suggests his students believed he was
     
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  17. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
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    SP1 what’s going on here ?
     
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  18. $P1

    $P1 Ball State #1
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    That professor got benched. We don't play that shit at the Harvard of East Central Indiana.
     
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  19. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
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    This type of spin is impressive.
     
  20. $P1

    $P1 Ball State #1
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    A BLT and some tortilla soup
     
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  21. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
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    two yogurts and an apple.
     
  22. skiedfrillet

    skiedfrillet It's not a lie if you believe it.
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    guy normally sits near the front of the class, but all the spots were taken so he sat in the back to plug his laptop in and follow along that way

    someone left mid class and a spot opened up front and prof asks him to move up in the front

    guy doesn't want to bc there's no charger near the front that won't get in the professor's way while he's teaching

    teacher leaves class and has a student employee call cops

    cops arrive confused af, and student ends up leaving after the class sticks up for him saying he wasn't doing anything except reading the prof's powerpoint presentation and following along with the curriculum.
     
  23. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    thanks for the info. Seems like such a nothing situation. Why the fuck does the teacher care where that kid sits? Why the fuck does that kid care if he's asked to sit up front, where he normally sits, once that seat opens up (he wont need to follow along on his laptop up front, if I'm understanding)?

    Calling the cops is absurd. The cops could also have said fuck off, we are not removing a kid because of a seating chart violation, figure this out yourself.
     
  24. Joe Louis

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  25. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Just to be clear, I'm not saying everything was fine and dandy the day after slavery was abolished. You understand what I mean by "on the decline", right? There has been steady progress towards less and less racism.

    At one point white people could own black people as property. Then that practice was made illegal. Still racism was still alive and well, especially in the south, but that was at least progress in the right direction. There were lynchings and blatant racism was still prevalent. But over time there were fewer and fewer, until lynching essentially ended in the 1950's. Lynchings steadily declined from the 1860's to the 1950's.

    None of this is to suggest things are perfect today, or that racism does not exist in 2020. I don't think racism will ever be totally eradicated. But things are, and have been, moving in the right direction for a long time.

    Is there a period where you think racism increased in the past 150 years?
     
  26. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    you said it's been on the decline since slavery was abolished. to say that ignores a subsequent 80 year period of heinous racial violence. you are trying to assign a points system for a condition that reflects a mindset. under your premise, after abolishment because freed slaves might now be able to form their own communities, the US was "less racist" than during the era of slavery, even though white mobs could burn their towns and hang them for any reason (and did so with frequency for decades) ...
     
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  27. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Could racism not be on the decline post-slavery and there still be massive racial violence?

    You are arguing that the US was more racist post-slavery than it was during slavery?
     
  28. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    the fact that there was massive racial violence for another 80 years indicates that racism was alive and well and NOT on the decline AT ALL i would say. if there were no lynchings and white folks allowed black folks to live in peace in the south i'd agree with you. but they didn't ...

    i am not arguing anything other than your patently false statements. if you REALLY wanted to pick a date to declare "racism has been on the decline!" you can certainly find a better date than the abolishment of slavery. you would still be making a stupid claim though that really serves no purpose ...
     
  29. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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  30. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    In order to refute my claim you'd have to argue that. You either agree with me that racism was worse during slavery than after slavery, or you disagree and think racism was worse after slavery than during.

    I am not sure you are understanding that racism can be alive and well, there can be massive racism, and it can still be on the decline. "On the decline" does not mean non-existent. It's a relative comparison.
     
  31. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    i understand there is no helping you but felt compelled to point out how appalling your statement was and provide evidence as such, because you clearly are not well versed in these matters. as a peace offering, i'll allow you a mulligan if you'd liked to amend things and go with the Civil Rights Act as your starting point ...
     
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  32. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    I feel like you are arguing that things were really, really bad after slavery, and you think that somehow counters what I am saying. It doesn't.

    I agree with you that racism was really bad, especially in the south, for many years after slavery. I 100% agree with you. Let's just leave it at that.
     
  33. Joe Louis

    Joe Louis no thank you turkish, i'm sweet enough
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    i still want you to reflect on the quote below. the linear description you apply needs reinforcement. could help reshape your thinking to lose these sort of qualifications when talking about race relations ...

     
    #283 Joe Louis, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  34. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    steadily decline was not the correct choice of words. The decline started in 1892.

    To add more confusion here, lynchings were not always racially motivated. According to the Tuskegee Institute, 4,743 people were lynched between 1882 and 1968 in the United States, including 3,446 African Americans and 1,297 whites.

    Lynching was a semi-common method of social justice in the south and west for domestic crimes, murder, or stealing. It was absolutely also a racist practice used to intimidate, scare, and control blacks, and punish sympathetic whites. But not exclusively. So lynching can sorta be used as a metric to measure racism but it's not great either, right?

    We are getting bogged down in a lynching debate, when my point was that racism has declined over the past 150 years. You agree that racism was not worse after slavery was abolished. So we actually agree here, don't we?
     
  35. skiedfrillet

    skiedfrillet It's not a lie if you believe it.
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    I mean you could prob argue that racism is actually on the rise considering populations rising in the south. Alabama grew by 2 mil ppl since 1960 and half of the south still frowns at interracial relationships.
    Shit I have a family friend who practically disowned his daughter for dating a black guy and he swears til he’s blue in the face that he’s not a racist
     
  36. NCHusker

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    If a person doesn't explicitly say "I am doing a racism to you right now," there's just no way we can tell.
     
  37. Daniel Ocean

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    Using when people were allowed to own people as the bar for “lower racism” is an interesting take. Institutional racism was as strong as ever for generations.
     
  38. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    You are, of course, being absurd, but absent proof of racism, why would we assume it? The extent of the proof we have in many of these examples is a white person being an asshole to a black person. That is automatically always racism now, without any other indications? Seems like a low bar.
     
  39. Joe Louis

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  40. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    what point do you think you are refuting here??

    If you look at "lynchings in the US" you will find that roughly 25% were white people. It's not a great metric to use to establish racial injustice when it includes white people hanging other white people for stealing cattle.

    That being said, YES it was a tool of racism as well. But lumping all "lynchings" into the same racist category is not completely accurate. That was my point. You helped prove it with your link, thank you.
     
  41. VaxRule

    VaxRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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  42. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    when the point is that things have gotten better over time, it's typical to use the lowest bar at the longest time as the starting point. Was there a lower bar than whites owning blacks?
     
  43. Joe Louis

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    No it is a great metric cause when whites applied it to blacks it was for explicitly racist reasons, and when applied to whites a penalty for possibly being a criminal. The torturous manner and public spectacle applied to blacks vs whites reflects the distinct racist mindset. So the fact that "whites were lynched too" does nothing to refute the fact that racism existed at catastrophic levels for many many decades after slavery was abolished ...
     
  44. LetItSoak

    LetItSoak Well-Known Member
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    Maybe this is the time you guys will finally convince him and he'll stop white knighting for racists
     
  45. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    Whites were also lynched for being sympathetic to blacks. The point still remains, if you are looking at broad lynching numbers, you are including white guys caught stealing, which is not particularly relevant to this discussion.
     
  46. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
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    racist should be lynched. Fuck racists and fuck you :bird:
     
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  47. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Tmb gunna TMB
     
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  48. NCHusker

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    If you occasionally sprinkle in statements about how much you hate racists it's cool to spend the rest of your time caping for racists
     
  49. Joe Louis

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    Well those would also be examples of a racist mindset. If whites weren't racist towards blacks they wouldn't hang fellow whites for being sympathetic. And yes the broad #s regarding lynchings in fact do reflect extremely high levels of racism in this country long after slavery was abolished ...
     
  50. Mister Me Too

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    #300 Mister Me Too, Feb 19, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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