NHL Thread: Conference Final Placeholder Title

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by CF3234, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. IrishLAX2

    IrishLAX2 So you’re telling me there’s a chance
    Donor TMB OG
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishNew York YankeesNew York GiantsNew York RangersLiverpool

    Ding ding ding

    Ottawa had/has all the leverage here. They didn’t need to jump to a signing this quickly. Not to say the contract won’t work out. But they could’ve made this decision next year with a lot more certainty that it will work out.
     
    CF3234 likes this.
  2. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    and even with the cap jump they wouldn’t have had to pay that much more. It’s all too early.
     
    The Banks and IrishLAX2 like this.
  3. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Fair points. Sens have always hedged their bets on young players coming out of early deals. Did it with Karlsson and Turris. Those contracts worked out great for Ottawa. Sometimes you get a Colin White. Meh.
    Dorion is a turkey who is rounding the bend as a GM. He’s been right more times than not with these young players and contracts. Some fans see last season’s stats and think they’ve jumped the gun on him. Those around hockey and those who have watched him see the immense potential.

     
  4. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    For the uninitiated perhaps.
     
  5. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    A 19/20 year old middle pairing D who quickly became their best D playing all situations and 22 a night.
     
  6. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    They’ve locked in their core. Right or wrong, they have made their bed. The players have all bought in.

     
  7. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    That’s one thing we agree on. The sens are all ok with this group. If they are right. They are in great shape. If they are wrong, they are totally fucked.


    Where we disagree is on how much of a gamble this is.
     
  8. ohhaithur

    ohhaithur e-Batman
    Donor

    It's easy to say that you would bet on yourself until you're staring down a 64 million contract that could disappear in a second on a dirty hit or fluke twist of a knee
     
    Lip, Fire Jimbob, WC and 5 others like this.
  9. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    Sure, which is why it’s part of gambling on yourself. It’s working well for Auston Matthews though. There is a proof of concept developing.
     
  10. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Detroit PistonsDetroit LionsDetroit Red WingsWolverhampton WanderersDetroit Tigers

    NHL players are conservative by nature. I know the hard cap helps play a role in limiting salaries but in no other sport do players continually shortchange themselves to the benefit of the team.
     
  11. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    Matthews was a top player in the league quickly. This is a dude who had a good rookie season and then had #1 d-man money thrown in his face. He’d be insane to say no
     
  12. ohhaithur

    ohhaithur e-Batman
    Donor

    I'd still say the expected value is negative on holding out. Between the diminishing marginal benefit on the 9th/10th million and the time value of money calculation, I just don't see the value in the risk
     
    Illinihockey likes this.
  13. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    You say all these nice things about the franchise but at the same time they’ve been a bottom 5 franchise for the past fifteen years. That doesn’t square.
     
  14. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Thank you Eugene for finally passing away.
     
  15. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    I was thinking about this on some other guys like Hughes/Stutzle/Cozens

    Humans are risk averse in general. When you've got a check in front of you that tells you that no matter what happens for the rest of your career- you've got life changing money and never have to worry about your financials for the rest of your days- (As long as you're not stupid) that's a really, really hard thing to say no to for most people, no matter how confident you are in yourself.
     
  16. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    This is me hazarding a guess at contract negotiations. The Sens (Right or wrong) are confident that he becomes a 1D quickly and is going to play 24-25 minutes a night this season and put up points. They very much want to sign him long-term before that happens, because defensemen who play a bunch and put up solid production (Nurse/Jones) pretty much have GM's by the balls in negotiation. They probably came at him with 6 or 7x8 and got a hard no.

    I think this contract ends up looking good to very good in a couple years, but it's definitely a significant gamble, and goes back to what we talked about weeks ago where young guys are going to, more and more often, get paid for potential.
     
    Dump, The Banks and enjj like this.
  17. WC

    WC Bad Company, ‘til the day I die.
    Donor TMB OG
    North Carolina State WolfpackAtlanta BravesCarolina PanthersCarolina HurricanesUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    This. He secured a huge bag for the exact reasons it was a risk for Ottawa, and secured his financial future. Nothing wrong with that.
     
    ohhaithur likes this.
  18. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

  19. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishCleveland BrownsMontreal Canadiens

    as opposed to saying

    ´they just gave me a huge amount of money while I am not even sure i can be a good defenseman in the nhl, I guess they did not learn anything from alexandre daigle’?

    of course it’s what he will say, but I am not judging one way or the other. Mtl did the same with caufield and I would say caufield is an even bigger gamble
     
  20. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    That’s not what that says.

     
  21. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishCleveland BrownsMontreal Canadiens

    you know what I mean, even if he did not believe in the group he would say that he thinks they woo win and cash in.

    They all say the same thing
     
  22. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    If he doesn’t believe in that group he doesn’t sign that contract.
     
  23. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishCleveland BrownsMontreal Canadiens

    not sure about that
     
  24. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
    Donor TMB OG
    Penn State Nittany LionsPhiladelphia PhilliesPhiladelphia 76'ersPhiladelphia EaglesPhiladelphia FlyersArsenalPhiladelphia UnionUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    I get being a homer but you’re in Jack Edwards territory right now.
     
    Lip, IrishLAX2, The Banks and 3 others like this.
  25. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    He’s got 64 million reasons to believe whatever the fuck he wants. And in 3 years if the sens still can’t figure it out, he can ask for a trade. Or if he’s one of the reasons the sens can’t figure it out, he’s got his money and even a buyout nets him 21 million
     
  26. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Same theory applies to Debrincat. He was offered more money and more term in Ottawa but didn’t want to be here. Hence, the trade.
    Sanderson could have taken a shorter term deal… but he wanted to show his commitment.
     
  27. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    This sounds exactly like dale tallon’s quote regarding Mike Matheson. “ Mike’s agent said, why not 8 years. He wants to be a panther”.
     
  28. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Interesting comparison. Nowhere near the same situation but if the quote helps make your point, Bob’s your uncle.
     
  29. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor



    Hearing we might be getting some updates in the next week or so.
     
    #71629 enjj, Sep 8, 2023
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2023
  30. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    Or he wanted 64M instead of 32M.
     
    Dump, IHHH and CF3234 like this.
  31. Sean Connery

    Sean Connery I'll take Whore Ads for $200
    Donor
    Penn State Nittany LionsUCF KnightsOrlando MagicTampa Bay BuccaneersPittsburgh PenguinsPittsburgh PiratesBig Ten Conference

  32. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Do you entertain the idea of dealing Toews at the deadline if you're Colorado? Hard to see how they can pay him what he's worth as they have pretty much no money coming off the books next year. Trading him during a cup window season would suck, but so would watching him walk for nothing.
     
  33. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

    When you are a team that is a top 2-3 cup favorite, you go for it no matter what.
     
  34. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
    Donor



    Got the hair down.
     
  35. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    What kind of return do you think they would get here?
     
  36. teel

    teel Schiano Man
    Donor
    Rutgers Scarlet KnightsNew York MetsNew York GiantsNew Jersey DevilsNational League

  37. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEvertonBook Club

    Im impressed a dinosaur like him knew how to do all that
     
    The Banks, construxboy and CF3234 like this.
  38. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Outrageously good signing at that low an AAV
     
    enjj, IHHH, The Banks and 1 other person like this.
  39. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor



    I think most expected he was done, but kinda confirmed.
     
  40. MJH

    MJH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Florida GatorsTampa Bay RaysSan Francisco 49'ersTampa Bay Lightning

     
  41. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat

     
  42. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
    Donor TMB OG
    Penn State Nittany LionsPhiladelphia PhilliesPhiladelphia 76'ersPhiladelphia EaglesPhiladelphia FlyersArsenalPhiladelphia UnionUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    so I'm guessing that story is somewhat true but also exaggerated by Biz for effect.
     
    Truman, Doug and IHHH like this.
  43. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishCleveland BrownsMontreal Canadiens

    he went all in on it, not a great look for either side
     
  44. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
    Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesMiami MarlinsMiami DolphinsFlorida PanthersTiger WoodsInter Miami CFGame of ThronesMiami Heat





     
  45. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEvertonBook Club

    Johnny Guadreau is on 32 Thoughts. The Babcock thing seems way overblown the way he tells it. Like a non issue
     
  46. MJH

    MJH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Florida GatorsTampa Bay RaysSan Francisco 49'ersTampa Bay Lightning

    It’s hard to give Babcock the benefit of the doubt but yeah it seems like it was mischaracterized. It doesn’t sound like it was like an invasion of privacy, more of an odd request.
     
    enjj and Truman like this.
  47. DayDomination

    DayDomination Down to clown at Truffoni's
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    Fuck Babcock. Cost the Wings at least 1 maybe maybe 2 cups.

    I don’t like him, he’s trash
     
  48. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
    Donor

    Everyone knows Babcock is a sociopath tbh, I think at this point people are just trying to figure out context in this situation
     
  49. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishCleveland BrownsMontreal Canadiens

    you sized up this situation perfectly
     
    DayDomination likes this.