NHL Thread: ENTER NOW FOR ANNUAL LEAFS MELTDOWN

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by CF3234, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    Congrats BWC
     
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  2. BWC

    BWC It was the BOAT times, it was the WOAT times
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    I’d take the full head of hair some days
     
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  3. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    Low rent wearing the jersey of a former player at your wedding though. Go out and get a Crosby jersey or something.
     
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  4. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
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    If Zadina pans out and Larkin gets somebody on his line who can really fill it up, I could see that contract being pretty team friendly tbh.
     
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  5. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    https://theathletic.com/471276/2018/08/16/how-well-does-each-team-forecheck/?redirected=1

    deep into the weeds of fore-checking and analytics. great stuff here imo.

    How well does each team forecheck?

    [​IMG]
    By Ryan Stimson 23m ago[​IMG]
    The hockey analytics community has spent a good amount of time exploring the value in isolating blueline events, specifically entries and exits. For those unfamiliar with these events, an entry is the act of entering the offensive zone, which is commonly done with possession as a carry in or without possession as a dump in. An exit is much the same process, but exiting the defensive zone. There has been a wealth of information written about the former and some written about the latter, but this piece is about what the inverse of these events can tell us about teams, specifically forechecking.

    In examining the percentage of zone exits a team’s opponents complete while maintaining possession of the puck, we can evaluate how successful teams forecheck and disrupt the opposition during this phase of the game. If we can measure it, we can then assign values to it and learn how important that aspect of the game is in generating shots and goals compared to others. Let’s get to it.

    The Data

    Special thanks to Corey Sznajder as always for collecting the data the actual league decides not to. Also, shout out to Alex Novet for helping in the data cleaning process. Everything is 5v5 and data not collected by Sznajder is from Corsica.

    The Process

    Using Corey’s data, we can look at every exit attempt a team made in the 2017 and 2018 seasons, about 768 games in total. Additionally, we can look at each outcome: a controlled exit, a failed exit and/or turnover, an icing and an exit without possession.

    Last year, at the 2017 RIT Hockey Analytics Conference, Alex Novetpresented some intriguing findings on the value of exiting and entering the zone. One of his key findings was that if the team exiting their zone can do so with possession, they are significantly more likely to attempt a zone entry, which confirms earlier work on a smaller sample of data by Jen Lute Costellafrom several years ago. What was new was how Alex used pressure as a way to quantify just how much impact that can have on the zone exit result. Observe the below slide from Alex’s presentation.

    [​IMG]

    If there is no pressure on the player attempting to exit the zone, they will exit with possession 57% of the time, but only 17% of the time if they are pressured. That’s a huge change. Additionally, the likelihood of a turnover or failed exit increases from 7% to 38%. That sounds like it’s something that should be important, so how can we measure and evaluate it further at the team level?

    After investigating Corey’s data, which you can access by donating to his pateron, I wondered how we could use this idea of the controlled exit percentage of the opposing team to measure the forechecking effectiveness of each team in the league. If not letting the opposition exit their zone with possession is advantageous, there should be some signal in a regression. Naturally, we’d want to investigate what impact, if any, the opposition controlled exit percentage (OppCE%) would have on the forechecking team’s shot generation and goal scoring.

    The Teams

    [​IMG]

    The best team in Corey’s data set is the Tampa Bay Lightning, whose opponents exited their zone with possession 35% of the time. The worst team is the Calgary Flames at 46%. The Buffalo Sabres, Edmonton Oilers, and New Jersey Devils were next worst at 45%.

    While it’s a narrow range, the positive impact of having a more effective forecheck adds up quickly due to teams regularly facing close to 100 zone exits in a game during 5v5 play. So, between the Lightning and Sabres, that 10% difference means that the Lightning opponents are either punting or turning the puck over ten more times per game than the Sabres’ opponents are. That can have a big advantage.

    Just how much of an advantage? Let’s look.

    [​IMG]

    What I’ve done is use one each half of Corey’s data to predict the goals scored in the other (two-fold cross-validation due to sample size). Each team had at least thirty games in the regression, so the only ones removed were New Jersey, Vancouver, and Vegas.

    We observe a slight negative relationship between the opposition controlled entry percentage and goals for per sixty minutes. The rate at which your opponent exits with possession explains about 10% of your team’s goal-scoring. This is a statistically significant number as the p-value is 0.01. This is what we would expect to see if there is a relationship between forechecking and goal-scoring. We know from the fundamentals of the game that successful forechecking wins possession, forces turnovers, and leads to more offense. Lacking detailed forechecking data, we can use OppCE% as a measure of overall success – did your opponent break out cleanly or not?

    Due to the wealth of Corey’s data, there are several metrics we can create and analyze: the percentage of exits that fail/result in turnovers, the total exits per sixty minutes, dump out rates, controlled exit rates – all were analyzed, but the opposition controlled exit percentage had the strongest signal and statistical significance related to predicting goals.

    I will say that in a small project last year I collected very detailed forechecking data and there was some signal in how having an aggressive forecheck can be advantageous to a more conservative approach. With even close to 800 games analyzed here in Corey’s data, it’s still less than a full season, so we have to temper our conclusions, but this is the level of detail that should go into team and system evaluation. The more we can quantify each area of the game, the better informed we can be about optimal strategy as well as what players excel at.

    [​IMG]

    As well as predicting goal-scoring, it’s worthwhile to note that the percentage of opposition exits that are controlled is repeatable, meaning that teams largely are good, average, or bad at this consistently.

    Additionally, using regression analysis is important as it takes a lot of the guess work out of things. Simply charting data that appears related may or may not be related at all. The regression equation also can be used to provide measurable goals for the coaching staff and players. The equation basically works out to say that for every percentage point we can reduce the opposition’s controlled exit percentage by, we’ll see our goal-scoring rate increase by 0.05 per sixty minutes, simply plug in the OppCE% for x and compute the equation. Therefore, in order to gain an additional tenth of a goal per hour (or one every ten games or so), we’d need to increase our team’s forechecking ability by 2%. Doing so would give a team about eight more goals a season, possibly more depending on their scoring talent. This is an actionable approach using data.

    System or Talent?

    Some teams do this better than others and with a high rate of repeatability (how well the metric predicts itself), it’s reasonable to assume that teams play a specific forechecking system. Many teams play similar systems on the surface, so is it simply individual talent that’s driving the results here? That’s what I initially thought, but then you do see some teams like Detroit and Montreal around 38%, which is a solid mark and those teams are anywhere near solid in terms of talent. Are there nuances to how some teams forecheck that allow them to excel in this area of the game?

    Like many things, it’s likely a bit of both, but certain teams will exhibit better habits in certain areas than others.

    When people hear the word forecheck or pressure, they often thing of forwards laying hits on the opposing team’s backs, forcing turnovers and bang-bang plays to score goals. While pressuring the puck carrier is certainly important in order to cut off angles and passing options, teams must pressure at various levels and be disciplined in doing so. Successful forechecking pressure is maintained at various depths in order to maximize its effectiveness. Observe the below situation where the Sabres fail in this aspect.

    Most teams have a set play that looks like this when they win a draw in their own end. The back will wheel around the net for protection and look to move the puck up the ice along the far boards to Josh Anderson. The Sabres have both wingers pressure the puck, but fail to cut off the boards. Ryan O’Reilly isn’t in a bad position, but isn’t able to jump onto this pass. Anderson’s first touch isn’t great otherwise he’d be able to pass across the zone and the Jackets would have a 3v2 going into the Sabres end. A little more discipline from the wingers or O’Reilly and this play likely ends earlier with a turnover or David Savard dumping the puck out from the pressure both in his face and up the ice.

    In this clip, the Sabres do an excellent job of maintaining pressure both close to and away from the puck. They gradually squeeze the play and force the Blue Jackets to work within a small amount of space. Johan Larsson (22) forces the puck up the wall, where Seth Griffith (25) is there to deny advancing the puck. Griffith follows the play to continue applying pressure while Larsson reloads to maintain a high defensive position, but ready to pressure anything up the near side. When the puck does come that way, he’s quick to force a pass over where Jordan Nolan (17) is there to apply pressure.

    Because of the Blue Jackets static play and forwards working back to help out the backs, Jake McCabe (19) is able to step up and nullify this play on the zone exit attempt, forcing a change of possession. The backs play is key here to maintaining pressure – if they leave too large a gap between forwards and backs, then teams will continually get through the zones in transition quite easily.

    Let’s look at one more where the Sabres don’t do as good a job throughout the varying levels.

    Here the Sabres are pressuring in a 2-1-2, and are in good position early. A quirky bounce results in Savard getting a chance to play the puck up the wall to Cam Atkinson (13). Zemgus Girgensons (28) is in the high position here as F3 and his job is to cut off passes to the center and read the play to apply pressure. While the pass through center is exactly how you often break a 2-1-2, once Savard has his back to the center of the ice and has pressure coming, Girgensons should read that the likely play here is up the wall to Atkinson. He’s late in making this adjustment and Atkinson is able to initiate the exit.

    While you can find clips of every team doing things poorly and doing things quite well, the data we have to analyze show the Sabres as one of the worst teams last season at allowing the opposition to exit the zone with possession. Let’s look at the best.

    Tampa Bay’s preferred forechecking scheme is 1 -2-2 in that they’ll have F1 angle towards the puck, Ryan Callahan (24), while the two other forwards cover the boards and middle, limiting passing options. Notice the backs slide over to mirror the forwards as well, which squeezes the field of play and allows the Lightning to pick off the errant clear and move back on offense.

    Here you’ll see an exchange between the right back and forward. The puck is cleared up the ice and Dan Girardi (5) activates and beats Jonathan Huberdeau (11) to the puck. Vlad Namestikov (90) sees this unfold and circles back to the point to cover for Girardi. This movement creates more possession and nearly works out to great chance for Girardi. Lots of teams preach activating your defense, but it’s likely Tampa Bay is doing it more often than others as they were the best team at denying clean exits in Corey’s data.

    So Tampa was the best, but it’s easy to point at the talent on the team as a reason why. Let’s look at some less-talented teams and see if there’s anything in their structure that allows them to turn this phase of the game to their advantage.

    After this entry and shot, Ottawa looks to have an easy breakout. Bobby Ryan (9) has plenty of room in front of him and the Red Wings forwards were circling behind the net. However, good forechecking teams will have disciplined pursuit angles. Detroit has this here as their forwards take an angle that will eventually meet with Ryan if he continued carrying the puck. The purpose is to shrink the available field of play for Ottawa. The Senators don’t get much depth or width here so they help Detroit out quite a bit, but Detroit is able to compress Ryan’s options to a small area.

    There’s no stretch option as the Red Wings’ backs have taken an aggressive position up ice. Have a look.

    [​IMG]

    This is a second after Ryan makes the ill-advised pass that Detroit intercepts on their pursuit angles. Ottawa didn’t have much in the way of passing options for Ryan and that comes down to the forward pursuit angles, the backs playing aggressive on the forward options for Ottawa, and Martin Frk (42) closing down Ryan.

    This is similar to the above play in that the principles of structured aggression are apparent. Ottawa simply has nowhere to go with this puck and opt to punt.

    Conclusions

    In order to improve team efficiency, data can be used to help answer questions like “How well are we doing at pressuring the opposition?” It also can lead to new questions like “What can we do to improve that aspect of our game?” and “How much impact can this have on us scoring goals?” Analyzing data this way is important because if we were to simply look at that chart of teams above, we wouldn’t how important those small differences can be. Also, teams generate offense in different ways, so some teams stand to gain from this (Buffalo, Edmonton, Calgary) more than others (Tampa Bay, Detroit).

    I don’t believe we’ll ever have a definite answer on which system is best, but within each system there are important habits that matter to success. If a team does well at these, their system would likely be successful regardless of which approach it was.

    Because of its fluid nature and player substitutions every minute or so, teams will naturally be allowed to exit with possession several times a game. This is why I believe where teams can gain a bigger edge is in the dead-puck situations (faceoffs) and how they pressure following a lost draw. Apart from that, with many teams using similar systems, it’s really down to habits and how disciplined players are related to angles, gap, and pressure. If we ever can get our hands on skating data, I’d wager that’s a big factor in how well players can forecheck.

    It is always good to be aware of the limits we have with incomplete data sets. We can’t definitively assign causality to what I’ve done here, but it is an important step to begin to measure each phase of the game as best we can. Some factors that could impact this analysis are team effects. With a larger data set controlling for each team would be more feasible. There is also the the score state to consider and while teams didn’t have much difference across periods, looking at whether they are leading or trailing would be a logical variable to add.

    The next step would be to combine all aspects of zone entry defense and offense and zone exit defense and offense to fully understand the impacts of each phase, in addition to the above variables I mentioned. Keep an eye out for that soon!

    (Main photo: Ryan Callahan and Chris Kunitz battle for a puck against the Flyers. Credit:

     
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  6. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    I love kuch and he shouldn’t be dinged permanently for the bad series against the caps but I’m not taking him over ovechkin and I’m pretty biased toward him.

     
  7. 34

    34 just gonna send it
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    No Mark Stone is pretty bad :twocents:

    Anders Lee should be on there too
     
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  8. teel

    teel Schiano Man
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  9. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    meanwhile it's the Panthers 25th anniversary and there are no plans to have a 3rd jersey this season.
     
  10. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    They always overreact after one season, Pacioretty is easily in there too. But I would say the first 4 are pretty much interchangeable.
     
  11. 34

    34 just gonna send it
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    Finally

     
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  12. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Good man that Randy but he knew he wasn’t going to be back. Best for both sides.
     
  13. AUB

    AUB My apple crumble is by far the most crumble-est
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    Would love to see a Sens fan create a Craigslist job posting for this one
     
  14. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
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    Laine too high is my only real issue. I mean him ahead of Giroux? gtfo
     
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  15. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    I can’t imagine anyone with a decent future is lining up to take a job in that organization.
     
  16. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
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    this has the potential to be very shitty

     
  17. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    That fucking sucks
     
  18. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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  19. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  20. 34

    34 just gonna send it
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    Gonna be funny when we get Jack Hughes after all
     
  21. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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  22. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Just kicking tires would be my guess. Can’t see him being moved until some clarity on a new ownership group.
     
  23. soulfly

    soulfly Well-Known Member
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  24. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Only so many times national media will let themselves be used if that’s the case. I wonder if a team in the West ends up trading for him to flip him to Tampa like what happened with Hoffman. Something weird about how a trade with Tampa was reported as done and then the senators backed out.
     
  25. Poe Dameron

    Poe Dameron The best fucking pilot in the galaxy
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    They aren't going to get Karlsson by trade and blow up their rebuild. They could just sign him as an UFA next summer.
     
  26. Poe Dameron

    Poe Dameron The best fucking pilot in the galaxy
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  27. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Deal was done with Tampa tho I’m not sure Ottawa backed out. Honestly think it was EK that backed off due to ownership situation.
    Vancouver was probably just asking with no real intention of making a trade. The leak isn’t going to make Dallas or Tampa up their offer as there’s no fear of a Canucks deal.
     
  28. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    The move doesn’t make sense for Vancouver. Signing there as a UFA next summer doesn’t make sense for EK.
     
  29. BlazingRebel

    BlazingRebel Dog Crew Founder Migraine Connoisseur
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  30. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    guy had a chance to go to what would arguably the best team in the NHL and said no because there might be an ownership change which would make him want to stick around long term on one of the worst rosters in the NHL.

    Your homer is showing enjj
     
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  31. DeToxRox

    DeToxRox Uncle T
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  32. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    lol suck it Canada
     
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  33. dump

    dump TMB’s premier expert on women’s CBB
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    well yeah he wants to win a Cup
     
  34. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Alfredsson is going to be part of the new group. You know they are BFF’s right? He lived with them and is extremely close to the family. Erik is open to staying here for Alfie.
     
  35. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    so he's going to stick around in OTT hoping his buddy can be part of a group that is able to buy the team from a guy who has yet to show any willingness to sell the team and even if the sale does happen, he's gonna spend the last few years of his prime on a garbage roster. Again, your homer is showing.
     
  36. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    My homer? I’m in favour of trading him. Not for a garbage return but I’ve long been of the belief it’s time to move on from EK.

    And ya he is willing to remain here in Ottawa and sign an extension if Eugene sells this summer or fall to a group that includes Alfredsson. Not sure why you are getting all riled up about it.
     
  37. Poe Dameron

    Poe Dameron The best fucking pilot in the galaxy
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    That's the reason neither will happen.
     
  38. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Typical uneducated American media and their fake news.
     
  39. RavenNole

    RavenNole Well-Known Member
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    Sens are botching this entire thing. Sucks for karlsson that he’s had to deal with all of this. Either say you are keeping him until at least closer to the trade deadline or trade him already. Just not the right way to treat the best player in franchise history.
     
  40. enjj

    enjj Well-Known Member
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    Won’t argue from a appearance standpoint it doesn’t look great. But that’s the owner we have. Nothing will get better until he’s gone or pushed into the background.
    But there’s also no need to make an official statement and box yourself into a corner with the fans. They did that in that with their meetings with fans and they had their feet held to the fire.
    Until the new ownership situation is settled going forward no need to make public claims. Erik is under contract to the Sens for the year. They aren’t obligated to do anything.
     
  41. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Didnt realize Nylander was an RFA.

    Also kind of crazy Hanifin and Nurse havent been signed yet.

     
  42. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Metropolitan Division
    Pittsburgh 103.5
    Washington 98.5
    Philadelphia 98.5
    Columbus 97.5
    New Jersey 91.5
    Carolina 84.5
    NY Islanders 83.5
    NY Rangers 75.5

    Atlantic
    Tampa Bay 107.5
    Toronto 106.5
    Boston 102.5
    Florida 94.5
    Montreal 80.5
    Buffalo 79.5
    Detroit 75.5
    Ottawa 71.5



    Central Division:
    Jets: 106.5
    Preds: 105.5
    Wild: 95.5
    Blues: 95.5
    Stars: 94.5
    Avs: 90.5
    Blackhawks: 84.5

    Pacific Division
    San Jose 97.5
    Vegas 96.5
    Anahiem 96.5
    Los Angeles 93.5
    Calgary 93.5
    Edmonton 91.5
    Arizona 80.5
    Vancouver 77.5
     
    #11444 Truman, Aug 24, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  43. Pasta88

    Pasta88 Canes, Bruins, Raps, Jays and Sunderland.
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    What is this and why didn’t my team get a value
     
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  44. bro

    bro Your Mother’s Favorite Shitposter
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    great post Truman
     
  45. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Whoops! Fixed.
     
  46. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Thanks bro. Go make another awesome thread.
     
  47. teel

    teel Schiano Man
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    A true #HockeyGuy would know that RFA's are signed in September all the time
     
  48. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Good think im just a Hockey Guy, and not a #Hockey Guy