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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Thoros of Beer, Feb 3, 2016.
This thread has always been miserable. Stop reminiscing about the good ol'days that didn't exist
truth- I remember BVG and Quinn
I'm with you. In age and outlook. Hell, it was the Faust years that made me a fan, as I was in elementary school at Moeller feeder school at the time with a subway alum father who was giddy about Faust at the time. I've told the story before, about Gerry calling my dad a few weeks before he passed of cancer and just a couple months after Dad and I attended our first ND game together. That period strengthened my fanhood.
I'm also with you about being excited. Marcus' vision and fixing the holes in the offensive skill positions weren't going to happen overnight, but I still feel the upside is pretty high if it all works out.
I don't believe in some grand conspiracy in the administration deciding not to try anymore. That's ridiculous. There's too much at stake. However, like always, ND will move more slowly in certain areas while watching to see how things settle. Not to mention, the mission anf culture of the school are still there, still unique, and still important to remember. Good thing is, they tend to get things right once they jump in. Hell, we have one of the premier transfers who did so for his own professional development reasons and who, by most reports, is doing quite well with NIL. It's just not through the officially sanctioned outlets or something the school is broadcasting. But you better believe recruits know. Doesn't sound like a program read to drop to Ivy League, does it?
Football should be entertainment. Win or lose, I enjoy following the players and team. Losing sucks. Not trying sucks more. We're not there. The conspiracies are just the pants pissers looking for a way to cope when things don't go the way they built up in their heads based on lists of coaches and recruits created by writers looking for clicks.
This is the right answer
while I was alive for the ‘88 title I was too little to remember anything which makes the ‘93 Florida State win the pinnacle moment of my lifetime. Of course that was immediately followed by the David Gordon BC game not even a full 7 days later and I think that’s the best possible explanation of what it’s like to be an ND football fan.
I am incredibly optimistic about basically all the sports at ND. If we hire Shrewsberry we have 3 younger dynamic coaches in the big 3 sports and a legend running the hockey program. Football has obviously had issues and basketball is a mess but I think both are in a good position to succeed.
The doom and gloom about de-emphasizing football is rough but I also think it’s partially manufactured by people looking for an excuse as to why we’re not Bama. The emergence of D3, and his personal grudges hasn’t helped, he’s got a big following that turns on a dime and that’s unhealthy in a complicated sport.
one of his biggest problems is that he makes immediate reactions to things that are happening (because he has 15 million podcasts a week) and he doesn't think his opinion through...then after cooling down and thinking it through and doing some actual research, he'll come on his podcast a few days later and backtrack on his opinion but the damage has been done at that point
Hartman is a great example of this - he panned the idea when it first came out but after "watching film" and doing research, he loved it but a lot of fans soured their opinion of Hartman because of his initial reaction.
There is one person who should be upset that Hartman went to ND and that's Buchner, otherwise he is a massive win for ND whether he plays or not (program perception/talent improvement/pushing all the QBs forward)
For me it's the constant public kicks in the dick this offseason regarding admin sabotaging Freeman. If Ludwig and Hillman hadn't happened I'd likely be happy as a clam.
Let’s be honest, I’m not shy about my feelings on this, but the expansion of recruiting sites and those doomer worthless talking heads is a major problem. Shit on everything then give unrealistic expectations is bad and people live by these blood sucking leeches.
Hillman being sabotage is pure conspiracy theory fan fiction at this point. ND didn't suddenly change requirements to make things harder. Most likely is they offered with the stipulation that something needed to be done by the player that wasn't. That's almost always the case.
Ludwig is somewhere in the middle. The worst things the admin did were parade him publicly and miss on the buyout details. That's stupidity, and fully on the administration, but it's not sabotage. It's still a he-said/he-said game on whether or not ND would have ultimately paid, but it became a moot point anyway when a guy with strong roots got cold feet.
As Beeds said, the admin sabotage is fan fiction conspiracy to help certain fans (many here, yes) cope with the fact that we are not Bama. The administration may be out of touch and at times arrogant. But they aren't openly working against the program's success.
They fucked up on Ludwig by not doing their homework. But calling it some type of sabotage is Mountain Dew fueled, Q-style conspiracy theory.
If Hillman didn't qualify, it's due to the same standards they've gone by, and there's no reason to think they weren't open about it. He's not the first player to fall through because late in his HS career he didn't come through on some requirement. ND being ND isn't the sabotage of Freeman that the NDNation tinfoil hat wearing nuts want to make it out to be.
No bootlicking. Both situations sucked. But Notre Dame hasn't suddenly become a different university for some spiteful reason to hurt Freeman's chances at success.
If Freeman is going to keep big game hunting we are probably going to have more Hillmans, testing the fences is good.
Hillman isn’t that big of a deal. When you veer beyond BK’s comfortable recruiting approach of only taking kids that are a perfect fit for ND you’re going to have some defections.
If he doesn’t come and safety wasn’t addressed in the portal it would be a problem. Plus, Shuler has arms the length of a Pixar super hero so safety will be just fine.
The hockey game publicity failure still feels a little bit like Chad Bowden dancing like a fuckin 12 year old with a boombox in a public airport trying to convince a kid that ultimately wouldn’t come. It’s all so cringe but in the grand scheme of things I moved past it pretty quick because Freeman seemed to adjust.
Hillman is only a big deal because we’ve struck out at safety lately.
If that was a position of strength, it would be a fairly innocuous non-story.
Whether it's Marcus Freemans fault for Ludwig and Hillman or administration fault or Hillman and Ludwigs fault the problem I see is the disconnect. Is MF pushing the envelope to get admin to move quicker. Is admin "sabatoging" (which I think is crazy) or does admin just not have a huge emphasis on sports (more likely). Is Ludwig and Hillman isolated events that just had bad timing and they have as much to blame.
I think it's a little of all 3 to be honest. The Ludwig this was just a disaster because it was so public. The Hillman thing I have a problem with. ND admittance/admin on incoming kids and undergrad is just stupid. I'm not saying take any kid but way II podcast talked another undergrads and the way ND views other university courses is outrageous. In so much they struggled taking Cormac Ryan's courses from Stanford. I mean come on. The fact Hilman today has offers to commit to Michigan/BC/Vandy/etc tells me he's not a terrible student. Maybe he had 1 qualification short of ND. But why does ND have all these roadblocks Mich/Vandy and schools of high caliber don't? And why can't ND football get a few exceptions for what seems like a high character/good student. I just have a hard time accepting Hilman can get into all these schools but ND. The kids who can have success isn't everybody and that's already good to me. I dont want kids who aren't students and are shady takes. But Hillman isn't that. And to me that needs to get figured out.
This is 100% true. The good thing is, recruiting holes now can be patched in the future with transfers when the time comes to pay the piper, but it's still a dangerous practice to get comfortable with.
And before the "ND won't..." crowd chimes in, remember one of our biggest recruiting-built talent deficiencies going into 2023 would be QB if ND hadn't brought in one of the premier QB transfers on the market, who also happens to be rumored to be making upwards of seven figures in NIL this season.
But safety is absolutely a miss, and Hillman, while needing time to develop there, was an exciting prospect.
To be clear my usage of sabotage was tounge in cheek
The difference between what a scholarship athlete needs to academically qualify versus what Joe HS Student needs for admittance at ND is significant. FB players already get a lot of perks in that regard. So I have no problem with them sticking to their guns, as long as they are open and honest with the kids. The number of last minute academic losses is so low, there's no reason to believe they aren't up front with the kids.
Vandy is an odd choice to use as an example, as 1. ND is a significantly better program in the field and 2. I'm not aware of any known instances of them taking kids that didn't get into ND.
Michigan is more strict academically than the likes of the big SEC powers, but they are still a large public university, making that an apples to oranges comparison.
One story floating out there is that Hillman was a take if....and he didn't take care of the "if." I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it certainly doesn't make him a "shady take." But overlooking it for one player opens up a pretty big slippery slope moving forward.
Fair. And also to be clear, while we don't necessarily see the cause as the same, I know exactly what you mean by "kick in the dick." Those have definitely happened this offseason.
i wish hillman the best wherever he ends up, unless that is michigan. fuck michigan.
That's understood it's not the same. But it's still much higher than a majority of competitors. Which I'm fine with considering it's a different environment at ND they need to be able to handle. I stil find some of their 1 off qualifications that nearly no other university has for athletes to be an unnecessary hurdle. Like for example American Sign Language vs Spanish. If a kid took that as a sophomore before his recruiting profile took off. Why is he punished by ND and made to take Spanish anyways when that may cause his to miss a class or opportunity his SR year? I just think some of those hurdles are just that and could be unnecessary with a good student.
I used those schools cause they offered Hilman within hours of his announcement. They are also good academic universities
Two general observations about ND / the current state of the football program:
1. I would not classify the last few months as "de-prioritizing football"; I would just say its very public showings that our football program has been a step behind and at a structural disadvantage since, like, the '90s. Unlike many/most in this thread, I grew up a fan of another school until I got my acceptance letter to ND in 2006. What was immediately telling to me when I stepped foot on campus was how behind the program was from other programs. I'd see Sam Young and the o-line pigging out on waffles and ice cream in the dining halls two days before a big game wondering how we didn't even have a damn training table. We continue making incremental movements but its one step up, two steps back. NIL - given our wealthy fan base and donors hungry for a title - was our chance to finally thrust ahead of other programs and instead we're offering guys like Fiske $10,000 stipends. Being behind on *legal* NIL - in my mind - solidified we are fine playing from behind for good on the football front. We're not going to be USC signing a half dozen All American transfers every year and picking off a top-5 coach. We're not TAMU or Miami just paying off recruits. We're structurally behind and as long as the donors are happy and we can still claim we do things the right way and stay somewhat competitive, the administration is happy. Does this mean we're never going to win a national title? No. But it does mean pretty much everything will need to go right for all the stars to align to win one? Yes.
2. Brian Kelly was an insufferable prick who I'm glad he is no longer our coach ... but damn, could he build a program. The wounds are healed enough at this point to admit that he had gotten to the point in his last 5-6 years where he just simply didn't lose the easy ones. He was flawed (didn't recruit, hired his friends) but he kind of had the program humming. His push and pull was always frustrating of flirting with the NFL constantly, but the healthy tension with the admin may have simply Got Shit Done that MF needs to make some progress on (and wins are the only thing that changes it). I'm pretty sure Ludwig is our OC and Hillman gets admitted if Kelly were our coach. Again, I'm not praying for the days of Brian Kelly again - I'm just saying at some point we have to look back and realize that 2017-2021 is pretty much an ideal 5-year stretch (with a QB, maybe things do align in 2018) - its not impossible but hard to judge that as standard vs. the high water mark unfortunately
The sign language example had my dying on the podcast
Identify better fits in the portal. Striking out on a position going forward is a coaching issue. There are always guts, now (tin foil hat alert) if the administration isn’t letting portal guys in it’s a bigger deal.
Got to get rid rid of the old ways of thinking.
I think we're all more of a self-deprecating bunch in here than actual true doom and gloom. Personally I kind of enjoy overreacting to the shit show moments. I don't actually think that the program is gonna move to D3 and this is all a march to that future reality.
The reality is that ND trips over itself quite often and the content is tremendous.
Due to the shit show feel of ND stuff right now, I’ve gone heavier into Detroit Lions and NFL free agency than ever before.
That's evasive as fuck, I'd feel good about that if I were you guys
Man, don’t ask him what he’s going to have for lunch tomorrow or he will go on a rant about how the steaks he cooked a couple weeks ago were too well done
Went to the front page of 247 this morning out of habit and thought this picture was Keeley immediately
As expected Miles is out for the tournament, hopefully they can get out of south bend but I wouldn’t expect much more. That sucks.
Loy just posted a large recruiting update basically it was ND is not getting anyone anymore and he doesn't like his crystal balls
Indiana has 3 top 100 skill kids and none can get into ND per Loy
Publicly, recruiting has taken a little bit of a back seat as spring ball gets underway across the college football landscape. However, privately the Notre Dame coaching staff continues to work extremely hard to make sure the nation’s top high school football players end up in South Bend with the Fighting Irish.
Here are a few recruiting notes.
I predicted five-star defensive lineman Justin Scott to land at Notre Dame. At the time, the Fighting Irish had a significant lead, he had a commitment date set, and Notre Dame was going to receive some big, public news from the top target. I don’t feel as good about the pick due to a variety of reasons, but I still believe Notre Dame is in his Top 2 with Georgia right now. I’m told he’s visiting Georgia in the near future and should be at Notre Dame this offseason as well. A decision is expected before the start of his senior year, but time will tell if that comes to fruition. Dialogue between Scott and defensive line coach Al Washington has been great, even better as of late, and the Irish still believe he could pick them when the dust settles. The staff knows the Georgia visit will be a big one, but if he doesn’t commit to them during that trip, the Irish staff believes they can get it done.
Everyone has been asking about the status of four-star quarterback commit CJ Carr. I’ve talked to a lot of people recently and they all believe he’s solid in his commitment to the Fighting Irish. Things were a little dicey with all of the staff turnover and the loss of Tommy Rees, but conversations have been great with quarterbacks coach Gino Guidugli and offensive coordinator Gerad Parker. I'm not ready to say things are 100% fine and give the "all clear" because I'm waiting to hear that directly from Carr, but the fact remains that he wants strong relationships and a chance to be developed and that’s exactly what he’ll get at Notre Dame under Guidugli.
I reported Wednesday night that five-star edge-rusher Elijah Rushing is taking an official visit to Notre Dame in June. Some believe the Irish have little to no shot here, but he has five official visits to take and one will be to South Bend. That’s big news regardless of whether or not perception is that Notre Dame can get this done. The Rushing family has a great deal of respect for Notre Dame as a whole and they love head coach Marcus Freeman. A big year could go a long way in securing a commitment from Rushing. The staff is doing well here.
I don’t expect five-star receiver Ryan Wingo to end up at Notre Dame. The staff has done all it can here, but I just don’t believe he’ll pick the Irish when the dust settles in his recruitment. I believe he’s looking at other programs and has more interest elsewhere.
I’m not loving my pick for Notre Dame to land four-star safety Brauntae Johnson. That’s disappointing for sure, because he’s such a terrific player. It’s not for a lack of interest from either side here, but it’s just going to be hard for the staff to pull this one off. We’ll see if things change and if Notre Dame can turn up the heat eventually, but as of right now things are looking unlikely.
I still feel good about Notre Dame’s chances with four-star defensive linemen Jacob Smith and Jerod Smith. Defensive line coach Al Washington has connected well with them, made them a priority, and they are saying all the right things.
The same can be said for four-star edge-rusher Bryce Young. I still like Notre Dame to land the Fighting Irish legacy and son of Bryant Young. Washington made him a priority before he started blowing up, which is a good things for the Irish.
The recruitment of four-star linebacker Payton Pierce continues to intrigue me. Notre Dame was the leader and favorite to land him, but that was no longer the case once James Laurinaitis left for Ohio State. It was an even playing field at that point. Notre Dame, Ohio State and Oklahoma are the three favorites now. That said, he has visits to take this spring and then he’ll take official visits after that. My gut says Ohio State wins this one because of his connection to Laurinaitis and Jim Knowles, but Notre Dame is still a very real threat. He loves Marcus Freeman and the family loves everything about Notre Dame in general.
Four-star edge-rusher Loghan Thomas will take an unofficial visit this spring and return for an official visit to Notre Dame in June. Al Washington is trying to land both him and Rushing, so he’s bringing them on campus together to try and get them to hit it off in an attempt to get them to want to play together in South Bend and create something special together.
Four-star receivers Jason Robinson and Kwazi Gilmer are in the process of setting up summer official visits for Notre Dame. I believe the Irish could land both of them and are clearly in the top group. I expect Robinson’s spring unofficial and summer official to get locked in very soon.
Getting three-star defensive lineman TJ Lindsey back on campus for the Blue-Gold Spring Game on Apr. 22 is going to be key. Notre Dame needs him to take that visit. Any travel issues or delays with that trip will cause the Irish to question their stance in his recruitment. They badly want him in this class, but he may eventually not have a spot if he doesn’t take that trip and show even more interest than he has recently expressed.
Notre Dame loves its recent offer along the defensive line in defensive tackle Jayden Jackson. The staff believes he’s one of the more underrated guys nationally. He’s at IMG Academy now, but he’s a Hoosier State kid originally. Keep an eye on the Irish here.
If Freeman can throw together a 9-10 win season I’d bail with the quickness. ND is not a serious football program. Just be Northwestern or Stanford and be done with it.
This is my addition to the D&G Club.
That was actually pretty good. Maybe next time throw in a secret vendetta against Marcus by higher-ups in the administration or a boomer reference.
It’s my first time. I’ll get there
I've found it helps to pound more Mountain Dew.
Freeman was speaking to the ND Wall Street club the other night instead of ‘cruiting if you want to load your holster with more ammo
Why bother when you can’t get people in? Recruit the smart, slow whites and make a trophy that ND, Northwestern, Vandy and Stanford can fight for similar the the commander in chief trophy.
You gotta FUND the monkey
Been listening to IB quite a bit, D3’s war on the Al’s is wild, basically accusing them of not coaching. The calls for their jobs are going to be infuriating when we don’t shut everyone out.
You should not do that anymore
All of us watching Beeds07 join in on the misery
I used to hate listen Glenn Beck, I'm built for this.
he is even turning a little racist with the smart, whites and slow comment. Gotta love it
I am two of these things, guess which.
Looking like a 12-14 overall ranked class? Not terrible given the headwinds, OC turnover, etc.
Maybe the main reason I thought MF could potentially raise NDs level is cause I thought he'd out recruit BK. 12-14 class is BK level