Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Thoros of Beer, Feb 3, 2016.
Because we have a fucking oc still learning how to do their job since I guess we now train guys
Team is gonna be a mess next season and seeing people come up with reasons why it won’t be is going to be a bit entertaining
I am confused, are you saying we didn't have an elite D Coordinator? I am quite certain Clark Lea is elite in every sense of the word as a defensive coach and he's got a whole host of top notch coaches too.
Yes it's easy to scheme against 1 or 2 elite players on a defense. yes it would be nice if we had all top end defensive players so we couldn't be schemed against in that way, but guess what? there isn't a single team out there that can stop Bama either. No UGA, not UF, not OSU in the championship game. We have done the best job anyone has done because Bama 2020 (like LSU in 2019) has an all time offense with 3 Heisman candidates on it and the Joe Moore award winning line. We kept Bama to the fewest points they have scored in 2 years!!!
That's why I nearly shit myself in the half second that Book wound up to throw that awful interception with us down 21-7 around mid-field in the third quarter.
He stepped up with such confidence I thought he had a seam busted wide open and instead it was the one time all year he threw a garbage pick straight at a covering defender.
it’s been jimmy and joes for a long time - we are finally developing and recruiting better than 99% of cfb and getting smacked by the 1%
That pathetic schedule is fogging your blinders
well for one, we don't play anyone good next year.
It’s more of an indictment on Rees and Kelly.
Bama’s sole weakness in their entire organization is their defensive coordinator, and we literally made his job easier but running a 1990s offense. The opposite of what the elite coaching staffs do in these games.
yea, i agree that on offense, we stunk. I saw some plays that Rees designed where Book just seemed unwilling to let it go (he did this against clemson game 2 also) so then i just don't know if it's a Rees problem or a Book problem. I think we all agree that WR was average at best this year but Book made it worse in many ways. I loved the screen call to Tyree in the championship game. Really, had Book not set the offense behind on that opening drive with that backward pass, we were moving the ball just fine thanks to the oline and Kyren. Book airmailing his pass to Javon on the crosser on 2nd down was a big deal too because that play probably picks up 10 yards and then we are third and short again because he had plenty of room to run. Book just played so small in this game, AGAIN!
I forgot all about that backwards pass
Charleston Rambo in the portal, I’d think we’d go after him.
When I just hovered over Coan's twitter handle the first person following him was Austin, so that is proof it's a done deal.
Bama fans talked all year long about how bad their defense was against wheel routes and Nd did not even try one. Williams and tyree are good pass catchers too.
I feel like every time we have tried a wheel route the last 3 years Book overthrew it
His ability to overthrow a wheel route and underthrow a screen were maddening. Always threw behind the receiver on screens.
Do you remember who he replaced?
edit. Was looking for a Wimbush gif. Imagine hating his game so much to put this page together. If you hate Book, take a trip down this memory lane.
Welcome Jack Own
Great let’s add another one
Can we trade him for extra scholarships? Does it work like that?
Driskell complains a lot about the lack of RPOs in this offense. Hard to argue against him
Well, that’s certainly a thing
Really hope Pyne still gets a chance to prove himself
Not sure if posted before but I don’t think adding him will hurt us.
He’s willing to stand in the pocket and throw downfield
That’s the only positive thing I can say
It’s whatever. I don’t really see another solution for next year with Clark hurt
His 19 comp% was higher than Book's 18. Yards wasn't great. Seems like a yac issue though. Total offense they didn't do well YPP. But I'm no stats guru but it seems like a fair guess.
I don’t know why, but this guy reacting to Coan committing has me laughing. Haha
I don’t understand why people are upset about this. We need a veteran QB and he’s the best one available.
Alright I've mostly just commented on the game briefly and ignored most comments. I was at the game and got to see the full play calls and the routes and such and I've watched the sideline/ez coaches all 22 film. I watched it last night. I've listened to Driskell podcast and irish illustrated podcast to get a feel for what they have to say and I'm somewhat annoyed with the narrative.
First point I'm going to hit home on.
Tommy Rees. I would like to understand why people feel isn't a good OC. Not enough deep shots? Lack of creativity? Just production? What is it?
I watch the game a little differently than maybe the average fan because I'm always also trying to watch the game to learn more about coaching and such. Having coached and coordinated on both sides of the ball I know what goes into defending and trying to stress a defense. When I watch Rees coached offense this year I've seen a couple things that I liked and some I didn't love.
#1 I love his uses of TEs and unbalanced formations. If you don't know much about football unbalanced formations stresses many of your rules as players are displaying a formation but eligible WRs are coming from different locations. Stresses your coverage or how you fit things. Rees makes this hard on DCs.
#2 motions and shifts. Also a pain in the butt to defend and makes communication huge when players find that difficult.
#3 lack of RPO. This is one thing I didnt love. We don't stress overhang or Rover type players as much. This hurt us vs Clemson the second time as they didn't really worry about our slot/#2 WRs anytime we showed run with their OLB..they were able to add him and junk up the cutting lanes.
#4 passing game. To me the jury is still out here on him. He does a great job of scheming up crossing routes known as mesh and drive concepts. He does it a lot of different ways and it's clearly what Book is comfortable with. Reason I think that is Chip Long also used it a lot with Book. The deep throws stuff is just not Books strength so its not dialed up a lot. The over the middle pass to Skronek was a great schemed up play but long developing and not something you could do often against Bama. I would love to see more quick game though. ND called some shots. McKinley was having a hard time getting any separation and the one time he and skoronek came open on the same shot play Book had already put his head down and decided to run.
All that being said. Rees is only part of the scheme. ND IMO felt they couldn't outscore people to win this year because they lacked some natural resources but they wanted to pound people and dominate the LOS and play great defense. It was their strategy as much as someone not being a good OC.
Second point I'm getting annoyed with that ties into the 1st point. ND gameplan to beat Bama. ND was conservative and by design. Some may not like it but Bama with more possessions is going to score at a much higher clip than anyone ND could play. ND also could not score at a high clip vs Bama with their weapons. They just weren't built that way. The best way to beat Bama was to limit possessions and keep it close as long as possible. Well they screwed thst up early by getting roasted on D early. But mid 3rd Q it was 21-7. Rees had dialed up a great call to get Mayer a mismatch vs a LB with no safety help. He did so by shifting and then motioning and causing some confusion. Mayer was open by a step or 2. Book missed a throw. If he completes it..ball is inside Bama 25 and maybe closer with a chance to go down 1 score with a qtr and a half left in a game they were picked to lose by 20. I just dont understand all the nashing of teeth by the media and others that they played to conservative. That was the best strategy to win the game
I think people wanted to give it a week or two to see if any other pop up
I love Tommy Rees
Is it possible that we didn't run RPO because Book just wasn't good at making reads?
Good post overall, but I disagree with the last point. All the analytics and previous games showed the teams who played Bama the closest were the ones that stressed their defense with tempo. You need to fight fire with fire. Does that mean we could’ve been blown off the field instead of losing by 17? Sure. But there was a zero percent chance we win that game with ball control. There’s no sustainability in that, which is why the top 3 teams have all moved away from it. Conservative offense played to their only weakness, and basically conceded the game.
Told my buddy who is a big fan of a Big 10 team we got a transfer from the "Wisconsin backup" and he said cool. 15 minutes later when he saw it was Coan - and not some other Wisconsin backup I guess - he circled back to say we're fucked and he's really bad. AND WE'RE OFF, BABY
If that was the best strategy for ND to win then they honestly had no chance to win. Ole Miss and Florida played their game and it gave them a shot. The next closest games and teams who held Bama to the fewest points were 2 teams that slowed the game down. You can't reinvent yourself and beat the best team in the country at their game. ND just didn't have the resources to do that. Plus it would go away from what they're best at. Maybe their personality was a bad matchup but it still was the best way to win the game
Griffith is transfering? Fuck
He went to the same HS as Avery Davis
Seems he was buried on the depth chart. Sucks he hasn't made the jump but the writing was on the wall.
All of the advanced analytics showed that ND actually was more likely to score more points this year when throwing on 1st down. And we did it somewhat regularly at times - see Clemson 1st game and UNC. The entire offensive narrative going into the first Clemson game was that we needed to break tendencies to keep Clemson off balance, and it worked extremely well. But then Kelly went into his postseason press conferences and said the opposite - you are who you are at this point and you need to stick to who you are. We went right back to the offensive ideology we had to start the season, which yielded lower expected point totals against worse competition.
Im not saying ND needed to reinvent themselves for the playoffs. I’m saying they needed to be a bit more aggressive. They were actually a better offense this year when they decided to be more aggressive on early downs, so it wouldn’t have been unheard of or unprecedented.
Additionally, the top teams *do* reinvent themselves to some degree for big postseason games and have great success. Ohio State broke out huddles, tempo out of huddles, and formations they’d never run before in order to blow Clemson’s defense off the field. When you play these elite teams, you need to find the one opening they have and blow it open. ND did the opposite with Alabama’s defensive scheme.
This is the answer. Same reason they rarely did zone reads
Agreed. He's shy about throwing the ball on designed passing plays. How much of a threat would he be to let it RIP on RPO?
I've seen a lot of Coan as we played Wisc 2x last year, and I followed them fairly closely the entire season.
IMO Coan is a decent pick-up if you're looking for a smart QB who can make most throws, isn't a complete statue, and isn't going to kill you with a bunch of dumb INTs. He's a fairly steady game manager type who should deliver solid, consistent performance (assuming he picks up your offense quickly, which he should). He seemed to be a decent leader.
Coan is not a difference-maker, though, and it remains to be seen if he can put a team on his back. Jonathan Taylor took a ton of pressure off of him and he benefitted tremendously from that - a lot of his success came off play action when Ds keyed in on the run game. He also played behind a strong OL.
TLDR: a slightly more efficient and less gun-shy (downfield) Book if you can keep him clean, but a somewhat less effective runner. More a continuation than an upgrade.
This sounds like the prototypical Brian Kelly quarterback, which is exactly what fans want to get away from.
I honestly think Coan, who I'm not a fan of, is an upgrade over Book, who I am less of a fan of. Kelly loves these QBs who don't turn the ball over, and ND is a team that runs almost as much as Wisky, so as long as he is a better decision maker, its an upgrade.
That said, I'm talking myself into this because as much as I want a young guy on the roster to take the job, Kelly won't give it to a youngster is there's a vet in the room. We all know that.
I look forward to the conversation of who steps up with a MUCH harder schedule in two years.
Yeah ultimately next year is going to be a wash of a year. We have a pretty tight floor and ceiling at this point. We’re a 9-11 win type team.
The question becomes, how do our WRs and secondary evolve next year?
Anyone have access to this?
Was just coming to post that and see if anyone could post
Yes and no. A difference maker isn't walking into the locker room in 2021 ready to go, no matter what fans want. That said, the lack of downfield attempts and ability to see and hit open receivers in the middle of the field has made it easier for good defenses to defend the Irish. Even against Clemson and Bama, those routes were often there. They just didn't take them. This kid isn't elevating the roster to top 3, but next year was never going to be top 3. Maybe a guy who can and will distribute the ball quickly to all areas of the field can at least be a bridge and keep the 10 win streak alive. I'm afraid with an inexperienced and undersized Pyne or teenager Bucher who will be sitting on almost two years of no football, that streak could be in danger.
I'm not excited about this kid being a difference maker, but in a rebuilding year, it may be just as important to have somebody who won't hurt the team and might actually open up parts of the offense that haven't been effectively used lately. Hell, this kid may be great for Mayer. Or even Williams/Tyree in the passing game if they continue to try to work them in more.