*Now the Official Jobs Thread* by popular demand

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Jax Teller, Oct 18, 2011.

  1. Tiger Tiger Woods Y'all

    Tiger Tiger Woods Y'all Putting big balls in little holes, circa 1995
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    I still wouldn’t take a normal role just for more money. I’d rather keep the flexibility I have now.

    I agree it’s important to weigh the pros and cons and comp is just one of many. If it was a job that had a bunch of cons other than the ones listed (like: difficult reporting structure, necessity to be in office 40+ a week, lack of travel, less mobility) i wouldn’t have even brought this to the table because i would have said thanks but no thanks before even meeting.
     
  2. racer

    racer Fuck Tucker, Tucker sucks.
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    What area? I may have some contacts in non-gaming areas.
     
  3. comrade static

    comrade static i love french fries
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    Casino host
     
  4. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Shitty recruiters are annoying af.

    Had a recruiter call my office phone (first strike) on a Friday afternoon a few weeks ago. Told him I was happy where I am, but I'd be willing to listen to his pitch outside of working hours. He said he was free all of the following day (a Saturday), and to call whenever. I told him I'd call him around 11 AM. On Saturday, I called at 11:20 and he was busy and quickly got off the phone. He called back Saturday afternoon around 4pm but I was busy so I ignored it. No voicemail.

    Heard nothing for 2 weeks, and then Monday he texted me saying "Hey, I'd like to talk to you at 3pm today. [Name]." I responded by saying I don't know who [Name] is, so what it is you would like to discuss. He then reminded me who he was. Given how he needs me more than I need him and I don't like having pushy recruiters dictate my schedule, I purposefully waited until after 3:30 and said I'd be happy to talk that night after work. No response that day.

    The next day, he texts at 9am saying let's talk. I respond by again iterating that I'd talk after working hours, and he said "okay." After getting home from the office at 8:30 that night, I text him saying give me a call. No response.

    Now the guy just called again at 10:30 on Thursday (no voicemail).

    I ignored it but can't help but think I may be the one shooting myself in the foot here by being so obstinate. At the same time, I do not like job searching on a current employer's time when I am happy at the job. Plus, every recruiter I've ever worked with has always been understanding of the desire to talk outside of working hours except for apparently this guy.

    Sweet blog.
     
  5. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    A couple thoughts;

    - Most Recruiters are bad. That’s my starting point.

    - If a Recruiter had a house or cell number, they’d certainly try that first. Calling at work is just a way to initiate communication. You shouldn’t be so offended by that.

    - I can assure you that no Recruiter needs a single Candidate. If you think you’re the only person/search they’re working, you’ll be disappointed.

    - Recruiters work similar hours and have families and lives. We try to be flexible, but you should try to work with them a little more.
     
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  6. righty

    righty Respect The Pouch
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    Thinking of dipping my toes in the search pool.

    Main reason I am looking is for better pay and a defined career path through the company. Question is, should this be something I discuss with my supervisor(s) before I start actually searching, interviewing, etc.? This is my first company since finishing grad school, and they created the position (IT security) I am in now but for lower than average pay (granted this is my first "experience" other than education). So at this point the projection would have to be something we argued would be good for the company. Knowing the business, big changes wouldn't be for quite a few years.

    Any advice on even going about talking about a raise? Do I just ease into the discussion during a 1 on 1 or make a meeting with the explicit intent of it? For reference we do not currently have a yearly review.
     
  7. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Eh I disagree here. I made it clear I'm happy where I am but I'd willing to talk outside of working hours simply to see what's out there. If he doesn't want to abide by that single guideline in order to get a potential client, then I'm not really sure why any flexibility is expected or warranted on my end. I work with clients everyday and sometimes I have to do so at inconvenient times. That's life.

    IMO it's poor form on the employee's part to be spending time pursuing other business opportunities during the workday on their employer's time. That's shitty. Wasting time during the day on a message board is one thing, but actively seeking out other opportunities is a whole other level of waste and betrayal. Not going to say I haven't done it, but only when I hated the job and had exhausted all options within the firm.

    And I never said I thought I was his only lead nor did I mean to imply that. My sense is that he had other candidates on the line (which is why he went 2 weeks with no contact), and they went cold so now he's reaching back out.
     
  8. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    I think you’re putting way too much value in this loyalty that you have to your employer.

    At the end of the day they will do what’s in their best interest first. Employees should do the same.

    You don’t have to agree, but I’ve seen it enough to know it’s true.
     
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  9. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Yes I am abiding by something akin to the legal "duty of loyalty" to the employer who pays my mortgage and provides me a salary. I think that's normal and to be expected?

    I think you're putting recruiters on a pedestal because you are one.
     
  10. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    Do I have a bias? Probably.

    Doesn’t change the fact that your employer, especially if you work for a public company, won’t hesitate to let you go if it’ll appease their shareholders.
     
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  11. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    In the last 10 posts of this thread, you've told me to damn my employer "because you've seen it enough" and pickup the cold calls of a recruiter (basically acting like a telemarketer) who can't abide by the single guideline I've attempted to put in place which is to call me at a better time before giving their spiel.

    Yeah, I'd say you're biased.
     
  12. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    I don’t have a dog in this fight, but dukebuckeye is right. :twocents:
     
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  13. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Never said he wasn't -- just said he's biased.

    Still doesn't change my stance that I think it's shitty to talk to recruiters while on another employer's dime.
     
  14. Baron

    Baron gold chain gang
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    I don't see how you can be getting mad about this Oranjello. You are literally posting on a message board during work hours but are pissed a recruiter is calling you during work hours.
     
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  15. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    My gut says this recruiter moves on to his next target: Lemonjello.
     
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  16. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    I’ve acknowledged my bias. We are just going to agree to disagree.

    I’d also offer that it’s probably not worth either your time or that recruiters time to speak. You’re not leaving.
     
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  17. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    I’m not going to change your opinion on this stance, and that’s fine.

    Just know, your boss and co-workers do it.
     
  18. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I addressed this in my first post I think. It's one thing to waste time during the day on a message board --- everyone needs some down time from work during the day. But it's another level of waste and/or betrayal to actively seek out different employment opportunities.

    They're both wasting employers' time/money, but it's another magnitude of waste to be looking to part ways with the firm while getting paid.
     
  19. Baron

    Baron gold chain gang
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    My next question would be, if he were to interview for a job, would it have to be after work hours to not interfere with his current employer's work hours?
     
  20. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    Plot twist: dukebuckeye is secretly the recruiter in question. :awesomeface:
     
  21. PCH

    PCH 2017 & 2019 National Champions - Clemson Tigers
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    Bad recruiters? How about this one? I'm transitioning within the group to a new role and a recruiter just sent me a req to my current job.


    It's for $10k more though, which is why I'm leaving soon.
     
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  22. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I'd take the day off, which is what I've done in the past.
     
  23. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    This is a weird take. You do realize that no matter how valued you feel, your organization could lay you off tomorrow and not give two shits about your loyalty.
     
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  24. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    Lol. I wouldn’t have called back :twocents:
     
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  25. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    Take PTO day.
     
  26. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    100% realize that.

    It's not about me feeling valued. It's about me being appreciative of a salary and realizing I am replaceable.
     
  27. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    Lol
     
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  28. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, the guy's insistence is what I don't get
     
  29. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I thought you were some sort of congressman?
     
  30. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    There’s a part of me that understands he needs to be persistent, but at some point you need to realize when things aren’t worth it.

    It would take an absolutely insane opportunity to get you to leave. You don’t have enough hot buttons right now.
     
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  31. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Everyone has a price, which is the only reason I was entertaining his call in the first place.

    I have had Big 4 recruiters call before and I just threw out insane numbers and they said "okay," which was eye opening. Ultimately didn't pursue those jobs because I enjoy working in a law firm more, but law firms can also pay whatever if they have a need, which is why I called this guy back in the first place.
     
  32. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    From the Recruiters perspective- there’s 2% chance they’ll find a company that’ll grossly overpay for a candidate, which is what you’d be looking for. Even then, because you don’t have any other real hot buttons, you’re a great counteroffer risk.

    The amount of time committed to your process wouldn’t be worth it on our end.

    Not saying anything is wrong with you or your opinions. It just is what it is.
     
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  33. DollarBillHokie

    DollarBillHokie Greatest Asset: being, like, really smart
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    Am I interpreting this correctly? You are trying to get ok employees for a firm because getting good employees have too low of a probability?
     
  34. TheGrifter

    TheGrifter It's a trick. Get an axe.
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    You are interpreting it incorrectly. To a recruiter, good employees who are open to making a move to another opportunity have “pain points” which they can easily articulate regarding their current role/company. Candidates who cannot show why they want to make a move outside purely compensation reasons are incredibly risky when it comes to counter offers, despite the statistics behind accepting one.

    Basically, as a recruiter, we want to hear why you want to leave your current employer for a reason which doesn’t revolve around, “Well, the compensation for the job you listed is higher than what I make now.”
     
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  35. PCH

    PCH 2017 & 2019 National Champions - Clemson Tigers
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    I always struggle with this question. What are good reasons?

    Career advancement ? "Why don't you're advance your career at your current company" ?

    No one. Literally no one in my group has been promoted in the last decade. 1-2% merit increases. Long hours at peak time and 11 vacation days. Boss thats buried in so much bs from his own boss, he can't support me .


    Obviously can't say that in an interview though.
     
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  36. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    Those are all extremely valid reasons. I’m not sure I’m following you.
     
  37. TheGrifter

    TheGrifter It's a trick. Get an axe.
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    It’s all about semantics. You can talk badly about a company without being overt about it.

    “Advancement opportunities at my current employer are limited” is a nice dodge of that question. Just be prepared to explain why in a way which isn’t you talking badly about your current employer.
     
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  38. PCH

    PCH 2017 & 2019 National Champions - Clemson Tigers
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    You can't say that to a potential emoloyer
     
  39. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    I’ve hired many people and been invited to sit in on lots of other interviews with peers. I’ve never once said, “We can’t hire that guy because he talked poorly of his current company.”
     
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  40. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    You 1,000% can. Like TheGrifter said, it’s all about positioning.
     
  41. PCH

    PCH 2017 & 2019 National Champions - Clemson Tigers
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    "No ones been promoted in a decade" ???
     
  42. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    You’re overthinking it. Anyone that’s a hiring manager would have already left by then. They won’t look down on you for being candid. :twocents:
     
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  43. TheGrifter

    TheGrifter It's a trick. Get an axe.
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    Yes. A good recruiter will prepare you for such a question and your response before the interview.

    For example, instead of saying “No one has been promoted in a decade,” you say something around the lines of the opportunity of promotion within your current role seems limited.

    You aren’t talking bad about your current company. You are showing your desire to grow a company or division. All without speaking badly about a previous employer
     
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  44. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    I always offer that, if I approach you, put it on me.

    Interviewer: "Why are you looking to make a move away from your current employer?"

    Candidate: "To be honest, I wasn't looking initially. My Recruiter called me and informed me of your opportunity and as I've learned more, I've become more interested and encouraged at the possibility of this working out."

    It's a way to answer the question, not bash you current situation, and still paint yourself as passive, which inherently will make them want you more.
     
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  45. AHebrewToo

    AHebrewToo Albino Hebrew Extraordinaire
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    I work with many law firm refugees. What in the world makes you think big law is better than big 4?
     
  46. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    Challenges- I've been with the same company for 10 years. I can do this job with me eyes closed. I am looking for something that'll challenge me and continue to develop me. If I stay too long at my current job will I become stale?
    Location- What's your commute today? Could it be improved?
    Advancement- When is your next promotion? Can I show you how to get there faster in a different company?
    Money- It shouldn't be the only motivator, but none of us work for free.
    People- How's your current culture compare to what else is out there?
     
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  47. Boo MFer!

    Boo MFer! UCF has a clown car of talent at RB and WR.
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    This is especially helpful if you’re looking for work as a pirate.
     
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  48. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    How dare someone have a different opinion than you, right?
     
  49. AHebrewToo

    AHebrewToo Albino Hebrew Extraordinaire
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    I’m honestly curious.
     
  50. dukebuckeye

    dukebuckeye P.G.I.T
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    I'm not saying you're wrong, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's one of the beauties of this. Never assume.