Official Cryptocurrency Thread: Skepticism to Speculation to FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Nantucket, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    no kidding, and i'm not even trying to say anything negative -- unless stating bitcoin gained one of its first legitimate uses as a currency thanks to Silk Road is a negative thing.

    Looking at the price swings and growth it's absurd people itt want bitcoin to be a stable currency AND continue to grow to $1mil/btc or whatever.
     
    #9351 Name P. Redacted, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  2. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Ok good you found the point you wanted to make. Took awhile, but turns out it’s not even worth discussing.

    A lot of people itt seem to be afraid of stating their actual point. Btc being used on the dark web is not some ground breaking thing. Nor does it seem to have any relevance to the merits of btc as a currency or an asset class. But if that’s what you feel the need to discuss 10 years into this whole thing, then I guess keep doing you. I would think at this point people would’ve found much more interesting issues in the space to consider, but “dark web!!!” seems to stick for some of you.

    Not sure what your point is on stable currency. Has anyone offered that it somehow has to be stable now or in the near future in order to function as a currency? If so, why is that your position?
     
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  3. Swt

    Swt Well-Known Member
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    That’s a feature not a bug
     
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  4. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    What is the purpose of currency?
     
  5. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    You're wasting your time. Anything short of bitcoin going to a million dollars per coin and taking over as the only currency on the planet will make him lose his mind. He used to schill for several alts that ended up tanking. Now its bitcoin. Just enjoy him for what he is and get a laugh out of it.
     
  6. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    who says i'm trying to change his mind and not just entertaining myself. he must be a lost cause if you're advising against arguing
     
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  7. —

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    you and that strange swt character are the only ones talking about btc reaching a million. Really impressive how you can put words in other people’s mouths and then prove them wrong and then get smug about it.
     
  8. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    If you’d like to hear someone much smarter than me discuss that, you should read the book I’ve posted multiple times. Or listen to his podcasts.

    on the stability issue, the price of btc is not going to be “stable” in an early market where investment can swing it one way or the other. It’ll have to become a much more liquid market for price volatility to reduce. But I don’t view that as a long term issue with whether or not btc can function as money when it has all the characteristics of something like gold but is basically checks the box as better at all of them.

    Now why didn’t you answer the questions in my post?
     
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  9. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    [​IMG] Is this a stable currency?
     
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  10. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    because you ramble, i'm not gonna answer everything you ask. i asked you what the purpose of currency is, not some dude on a podcast. so what is the purpose of currency?
     
    #9360 Name P. Redacted, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  11. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    It’s rambling to ask you why you said something? And what you have that supports that position?

    Much like dbl, it’s not my job to tell you why you think something. Nor to answer non-sequitor questions in response to positions that you take and then can’t explain. And much like him I can point you to resources that you seemingly have no interest in learning about. So cool. Keep doing whatever it is that you’re doing in this thread.

    This is a redux of what a few people do in the political thread and rightly get called out about. Drop in, take some position that they can’t explain, feign ignorance and want others to explain things to them, refuse to read or listen to what they’re asking about, and then act like they know more than the legitimate people in the space who have studied the topic for months and years.
     
  12. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    Is this a stable currency? Your USD chart is over the course of 100 years and goes from 0 to 100. This is like five years and goes from 0 to 21,000.
    [​IMG]

    The purpose of a currency is to provide some kind of (relatively stable) common exchange value between commodities. One US dollar has no value outside of what goods or services it can be exchanged for.

    You mention BTC's similarity to gold, why is it that most countries have moved away from a gold standard after centuries of use...and what makes BTC different?
     
  13. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
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    Another issue is that you respond with multi paragraph diatribes and attribute positions to me that i didn't take. so i don't defend them and keep my responses simple.
     
  14. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    I'll agree with a common exchange of value but don't agree with the relatively stable comment. Your question on the gold standard is a good one, and there is a very long history explaining the origin of the gold standard and the move away from it. Again this is covered in the Ammous book.

    If you don't want to read it, here are some free resources:

    https://www.bitcoin.kn/2019/6/saifedean-ammous-monetary-history/
    https://www.bitcoin.kn/2019/7/saifedean-ammous-censorship-resistance/
    https://www.bitcoin.kn/2019/7/saifedean-ammous-economic-calculation/
    https://www.bitcoin.kn/2019/7/saifedean-ammous-time-preference/
    https://www.bitcoin.kn/2019/7/saifedean-ammous-store-of-value/
     
  15. Taffy

    Taffy Token Brit poster
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    Bitcoin is not going to be the world standard currency. Mining is ridiculously power hungry and the mining pools are already largely controlled by the Chinese. A blockchain based currency might eventually become a "reserve" currency, but it wont be Bitcoin.
     
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  16. jrmy

    jrmy For bookings contact Morgan at 702-374-3735
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    What happens to bitcoin when there is no reward for mining and there's suddenly no processing power to process transactions?
     
  17. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Gatorfromiowa actually thinks it'll go higher. If you dismiss this article he'll call you names.

     
  18. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    That looks like a Tuesday for Bitcoin. Actually that's like one hour on a Tuesday for Bitcoin.
     
    #9368 dblplay1212, Oct 25, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2019
  19. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    I think it's funny that you were this bullish on Factom too. I can go find the posts if I need to. You scoffed at people that had the slightest doubt. That's why I laugh at you. Not bc you think these things could happen but bc you are 100% positive they will happen and anyone that thinks to the contrary is a fucking dolt.
     
  20. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    What part of you’re a waste of my time did you not understand? I told you I’m done responding in here because you have no interest in any good faith discussion. Stop being so starved for attention that you think I’ll respond to you substantively. I won’t.
     
  21. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Obviously you're done responding.
     
  22. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Ammous talks about the departure from the gold standard in 1914 for anyone actually interested in learning things.
     
  23. HuskerInMiami

    HuskerInMiami Well-Known Member
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    How is dbl able to work and have a family?
     
  24. THF

    THF BITE THE NUTS, THUMB IN THE ASS!
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    I would say the purpose of any currency is the ability to be a medium in the exchange of goods. BTC has the same purpose as the USD. The question I think you meant to ask was what is the advantages of using BTC instead of say the USD.

    For that answer I would say the advantages are that it is decentralized and doesn’t require any government oversight. For example I can “wire” funds from one person to the next with a much lower transaction cost than using a bank. In addition, the transaction cost is paid to another user/holder of BTC instead of a financial institution.
     
  25. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    It was $5 at the time of this post. You still held it. You lied about getting out at $17.

    You bought a ton at $15. You lost your ass.

    You scoffed at anyone that wasn't buying fct.

    Was it you or your hypeman burrito (or was that you too?) that borrowed 100k from family to put into fct.

    One would think you learned from it yet here you are again scoffing at people that don't have same hyper enthusiastic outlook on bitcoin. You're not an investment wizard. You don't know shit. You're investing and praying the blogs, all run by people that are just as thirsty as you are, are right. Common sense need not apply.

    You speak in absolutes. Not "Man there's a chance this happens way down the road" but rather "You're a fucking moron if you don't know this is going to happen." Your fct schill cost people here money. A lot of people that knew little about it followed your lead bc you were so certain. And you couldn't care less.

    Stop acting like you're some investment guru. You're a 2 bit schill that doesn't care if his ramblings cost people money.
     
  26. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    :blessed:
     
  27. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Cool nonsense that isn’t remotely accurate because you know nothing about me or my money. But do you.

    I will set your bullshit straight though before you carry on spouting uninformed nonsense. I’ve never attempted to provide financial advice. Anyone who is interested in this should read and educate themselves and do whatever they want with their own money. You’re right that I don’t give a shit if people lose money. That’s their choice to make. And they should only invest what they’re prepared to lose. You think I honestly give a shit whether some people on here invest in btc? Like they will move the price? Do you realize how stupid that is? Do we have some closet hedge fund and family office investors on here relying on my posts to invest that I’m not aware of?

    I don’t speak in absolutes. I challenge these stupid talking points of “dark web!” and “omg electricity!” and “blockchain totally but not bitcoin” that people who have limited knowledge of the space seem to have once read an article about and seem to think dooms the entire space. Those are wrong. I’ve provided plenty of resources explaining why, and anyone who is legitimately curious and open to reading could find countless more. You are not. That’s fine. Your decision to make. Which is why I won’t spend time attempting to educate you. You’ve shown no interest in any legitimate conversation or learning anything on your own. Again fine. And again your decision.
     
  28. leroi

    leroi -
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    Yes. It is doing exactly what a unit of currency is supposed to do : lose value.

    If you're clinging onto cash and expecting it to rise in value, you're doing it wrong.
     
  29. jrmy

    jrmy For bookings contact Morgan at 702-374-3735
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    Can anyone answer this
     
  30. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Iirc that happens in 2140. There will still be rewards for confirming the transactions and the fees will be much higher in the network at that point in time, which is still a reward in the system. Most transactions will likely occur off chain on something like Lightning too.
    But to answer your question, no one really knows. We can only speculate as to what would happen then.
     
  31. Harrison Beck

    Harrison Beck Bailout Bro
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    I mean we know according to the protocol. In theory, transaction fees should be high enough to support the miners but a lot of the community is against that as things currently stand. This would be well into 2100 so im guessing a lot of shit will change by then.
     
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  32. Harrison Beck

    Harrison Beck Bailout Bro
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    What Happens When All Bitcoins Are Mined?
    The block reward given to miners is made up of newly-created bitcoins plus transaction fees. As inflation goes to zero miners will obtain an income only from transaction fees which will provide an incentive to keep mining to make transactions irreversible.

    Due to deep technical reasons, block space is a scarce commodity, getting a transaction mined can be seen as purchasing a portion of it. By analogy, on average every 10 minutes, a fixed amount of land is created and no more, people wanting to make transactions bid for parcels of this land. The sale of this land is what supports the miners even in a zero-inflation regime. The price of this land is set by demand for transactions (because the supply is fixed and known) and the mining difficulty readjusts around this to keep the average interval at 10 minutes.


    Once a total amount of bitcoins has been mined, there will never be any new coins (unless a change to the protocol is made to increase the supply).

    Currently, miners are still heavily incentivized to mine in order to obtain increasingly more valuable Bitcoin tokens as a reward before the supply reaches its capacity.

    But, when the day comes that the 21 mln cap is hit, there will be no more BTC rewards for miners. However, transactions still need to be validated and stored on blocks in the blockchain – so miners will only benefit from transaction fees.

    As it stands, Bitcoin transactions are processed by the network in order of the transaction fee associated with that specific transaction. The higher the fee, the more incentive there is for a miner to prioritize your transaction to be included in a block.

    This could essentially be the lifeblood of miners in the next century, once there are no more BTC tokens to be unlocked.

    1. Effects on Bitcoin Miners
    On one hand, there are detractors of the BTC limitation who that say that miners will be forced away from the block rewards they receive for their work once the BTC supply has reached 21 million in circulation. In this case, these miners may need to rely on transaction fees in order to maintain operations. Bitcoin.com points to an argument that miners will then find the process unaffordable, leading to a reduction in the number of miners, a centralization process of the Bitcoin network, and numerous negative effects on the Bitcoin system.

    This argument assumes that transaction fees alone will be insufficient to keep Bitcoin miners financially solvent once the mining process has been completed. On the other hand, there are reasons to believe that transaction fees and mining costs will even out in the future. Looking ahead by several decades, it is not difficult to imagine that mining chips will become small and highly efficient. This would reduce the burden placed on miners and would allow mining to become an activity with a lower threshold of the initial cost. Further, transaction fees may increase, and this could help to keep miners afloat as well.


    1. Price of Bitcoin
    Bitcoin has already seen massive hikes in price in 2017 and 2018. While no one is entirely sure how the digital gold will continue to spread to the larger financial world, it seems likely that a limited supply of the currency may cause prices to continue to increase. There are also stockpiles of inactive coins that are held around the world, the largest supply of which belongs to the person or group who founded Bitcoin, Satoshi Nakamoto. Perhaps this supply, consisting of roughly one million Bitcoins, is intentionally being saved for a time when the global supply is facing increased levels of demand.

    Bitcoin in the Distant Future

    It is quite obvious that one day all the coins will have been mined and all that will be left as income for miners is the transaction fees. The big question is whether or not there will be large enough to keep miners interested in mining Bitcoin.

    We have no idea how mining technology will change at that time:

    • Tiny mining hardware
    It’s possible that mining chips will become so small, powerful and cheap that they’ll be in nearly any electronic device. If this were true mining could simply happen in the background, maybe in the electronics in your car or even your refrigerator, all without any intervention from you. It’s also possible that energy costs will drop so low that even small fees will remain profitable.

    • Mining fees
    Another potential scenario is that mining fees simply continue to rise to keep pace with the cost of mining. If the entire world is using Bitcoin by the time all the coins have been mined, the demand for the very small supply of 21 million Bitcoin could make transaction fees very high. Think what transaction fees might be if John McAfee is correct and Bitcoin goes to $1 million and beyond.


    While it remains a possibility, the probability of transaction fees rising that high seems low at this time. The consensus in the current Bitcoin community is that block size needs to increase to accommodate scalability. And if block size continues to grow transaction fees will remain low.

    This might seem troublesome at first glance; if network transaction fees remain low, what will entice miners as blockchain rewards continue shrinking to nothing? The issue is that not increasing the block size is an even greater threat to the network. Once blocks reach their maximum size no more transactions can be confirmed until the next block is created, and this could lead to dropped transactions. We saw how this might happen in December 2018.

    While such a scenario would almost surely mean higher fees for miners, it would also discourage people from even using Bitcoin, and this could be a death knell much sooner than any other issue currently facing Bitcoin.

    The fixed supply of Bitcoin means block rewards will go away, hopefully creating the opportunity for transaction fees to become just as profitable for miners. This could occur through basic monetary theory. Once all of the Bitcoin has been mined, the fixed 21 million supply has no way to keep up with growing demand. The discrepancy between supply and demand than could be enough to increase the purchasing power of Bitcoin. If the purchasing power continues to rise it could keep mining profitable no matter what the fees are, as they will be seen as an increasingly valuable asset. Mining would at that point be more like a long-term investment rather than simply a profitable activity.

    Summing Up
    As you can see, there are several possible ways for mining Bitcoin to remain profitable and enticing, even after miners stop creating new coins. Additionally, the block rewards won’t just disappear overnight, but will slowly decline over time, which gives miners the chance to adapt as the block reward declines and transaction fees become increasingly important.
     
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  33. Harrison Beck

    Harrison Beck Bailout Bro
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    I wonder if Zuck's testimony helped pump the price 13% today?
     
  34. jrmy

    jrmy For bookings contact Morgan at 702-374-3735
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    My favorite cryptocurrency is Tether
     
  35. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    You're a right winger that only watches Fox News and then spouts off what they say as fact and talks down to anyone that has even the slightest different view.
     
  36. jrmy

    jrmy For bookings contact Morgan at 702-374-3735
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  37. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Lofuckingl. I despise Fox News, right wing conservatism, and everything it stands for. I’d like warren or sanders to win the nomination. Where do you even come up with some of your stupid shit? Mr. “you only speak in absolutes” posting something like that above is so rich.
     
  38. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Analogy went way over your head :facepalm:
     
  39. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    The next fact you bring to this thread will be the first.
     
  40. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Go back to investing in shoes or spouting off about Tesla or whatever other stupid shit you’re up to these days.

    Or read a book. I don’t care either way.
     
  41. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Shoes have done better than crypto the last couple years.
     
  42. Tobias

    Tobias dan “the man qb1” jones fan account
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    that wasnt an analogy. you literally said that he is a right winger, you fucking idiot
     
  43. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    I'll spell it out for you. You read blogs and slack groups that are super pro-crypto. You therefore think that's the only way it can go. Just like a right winger watching Fox News.
     
  44. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    I’ll take arbitrary timelines for $1000 Alex. And even that is wrong.
    Btc has a higher sharpe ratio than other asset classes over relevant time periods. But don’t let those facts get in the way.
     
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  45. —

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    Highest levels of self righteousness I’ve seen on this forum.
     
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  46. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Wow such insight.

    I don’t even have a slack and couldn’t name a single crypto blog. I do read though. And I listen to people who I think are smarter than me. You should try it.
     
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  47. —

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    Hey user15000 there are some people who have trouble grasping abstract concepts. If they can’t see it, they can’t touch it, they don’t believe it. Just ignore him and save the thread from the circles. Or take it to that stupid as fuck publix parking lot thread.
     
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  48. —

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    It’s the first lap of the indy 500 and you guys are arguing who the winner will be. Whatever either of you guys say is irrelevant.

    No one knows.

    I think the big argument is whether or not there will be a winner at all, or if a giant crash will kill all the drivers. Again no one knows, but I lean towards someone winning.
     
  49. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    More lies.

     
  50. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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