Official Cryptocurrency Thread: Skepticism to Speculation

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Nantucket, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Are you talking about the 3 things in the tagline of the article? And did you actually read it? The author at least attempts to define what he's talking about. It's well-written.
     
  2. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    #9652 user15000, Apr 19, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2020
  3. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsSeattle Kraken

    It’s way too long for a viewpoint I don’t care about.
     
  4. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

  5. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    He knows how much he has invested and therefore how much he should shill?
     
    Ty Webb likes this.
  6. southside

    southside Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Meh. I'm long BTC but I don't give a fuck if Jack likes it or not. Smarter people have been wrong about bigger things
     
    Jax Teller likes this.
  7. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Is everyone who owns anything a shill?
     
  8. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    No. I own a lot of shoes. I don't spend my days telling everyone else they should too in hope it will increase the value of my collection.

    Bitcoin owners struggle with that concept.
     
  9. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    This is an awful analogy. You might as well have said that you like t-shirts but aren’t a t-shirt shill. Try stocks or any asset class.
     
  10. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    Yes, you can own them without being a shill. I own lots of stocks. I don't spend my days telling others they should own the same stocks. I don't have them in my Twitter bio. That seems rare for Bitcoin owners. They treat is as a ponzi. You're a prime example.
     
  11. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Wow a Ponzi scheme. No one has ever thought of that before. This changes everything.
     
  12. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    I didn't say it was a Ponzi scheme. I said many Bitcoin users talk it up like one. The girl on fb pimping a MLM project would be a better comparison though.
     
  13. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Cool. Dynamite addition to the thread as always.
     
  14. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

  15. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

  16. southside

    southside Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Bitcoin mooning. Best performing asset class of the year. Here we go
     
    user15000 likes this.
  17. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Shhhhhhh. It’s too volatile (no wait that’s oil) and is a Ponzi scheme (no wait that’s the current market propped up by central banking).

    Interesting times as we head into the halving with what should be a decrease in miner sell pressure in the coming weeks/months.

    Has the makings for some serious FOMO.
     
    #9667 user15000, Apr 29, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2020
  18. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Worth a read

     
    HuskerInMiami likes this.
  19. momux

    momux AFAM Scholar
    Donor
    North Carolina TarheelsCarolina PanthersChelsea

    user15000 I like you and you bring up interesting points. I also have about 1% of my portfolio in BTC. How do you rationalize the distributed carry cost of BTC though? If you think about energy as a resource, why should so much go into processing bytes to maintain a currency? Aren’t there better solutions for a decentralized currency?
     
    Taffy likes this.
  20. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    This is probably a decent starting point to the energy issue: https://unchained-capital.com/blog/bitcoin-does-not-waste-energy/

    Energy is spent on all sorts of things, and securing a decentralized currency is not a cost that I view as unnecessary.

    To your last question, no I don’t think there are better solutions. Long term, the market will ultimately determine what is the best solution, but it hasn’t been a particularly close result thus far.

    Also your portfolio position is one that I think is increasingly harder for people to justify not having.
     
  21. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Weekend reading

     
  22. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Imagine there were 100 individuals in an economy, each with different skills. All have determined to use a common form of money to facilitate trade in exchange for goods and services produced by others. With the one exception that a single individual has a superpower to print money, requiring no investment of time and at practically no cost. Given human time is an inherently scarce resource and that it is a required input in the production of any good or service demanded in trade, such a scenario would mean that one person would get to purchase the output of all the others for free. Why would anyone agree to such an arrangement? That the individual is an enterprise, and more specifically, a central bank expected to act in the public interest does not change the fundamental operation. If it does not make sense on a micro level, it does not magically transform into a different fundamental fact merely because there are greater degrees of separation. If no individual would bestow that power in another, neither would a conscious decision be made to bestow it in a central bank.
     
  23. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    In your scenario, half the businesses would go out of business during a global pandemic. A decent % of the population would go hungry. I'm sorry your dollars got devalued a little but it was the best option. You have this utopia idea that doesn't exist in the real world.
     
  24. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    You're wrong. The gold standard has existed in history without this nonsense that you think is inevitable. The reason it exists now is because of the current fucked up system.

    And i don't give a shit about dollar devaluation. I hold as few as possible.
     
  25. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    Just say you're cool with poor people starving and being evicted in the name of your utopia.
     
  26. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    What on earth are you blabbering about? No I'm not cool with that. But I also don't need to argue against your moronic false dichotomy. Maybe, just maybe, we should have a monetary system where people can save money and it isn't inflated away year over year as a hidden tax based on some old white dudes in a room who decide to move decimal places on a computer.

    Poor people starving and being evicted? Are you fucking serious? That already exists in this society and it sure as shit isn't being fixed by the federal reserve's monetary policy. It's being made worse by what is currently happening. Take a look at the wealth gap over the last 50 years (1971 is probably a good starting point), and then attempt to argue your point.

    It's also not a utopia idea if you had any clue about history.
     
    Oranjello likes this.
  27. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

  28. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    We're living through the largest monetary experiment in the history of society.

    [​IMG]
     
    HuskerInMiami likes this.
  29. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Some simple math

    Dollar supply

    [​IMG]

    Plus btc supply

    [​IMG]

    equals purchasing power of btc relative to dollars
    [​IMG]
     
  30. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    In a perfect world, sure. That's not reality. That's what you're missing. Yes, the government printed money to save jobs and people without the savings to go 2 months with no income. That's a better alternative than saying "Welp, you should have saved some money, you poor." If we didn't have that ability we'd be in far worse shape after the last 2 months than we are now. You're so blinded by your desire for your investments to moon that you refuse at acknowledge that. If the fed didn't control the money and couldn't make more, who would have bailed out the people with no savings? Just fuck them, huh? Tell them to just grab their bootstraps?

    I'm not saying it's a perfect system but blaming the fed on the wealth gap is a joke. Capitalism and greed breed that.
     
  31. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    You’re presupposing an agreement
    I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your points (because they seem somewhat rambling but nevertheless may be accurate), but take a look at the scale on the right hand side of this chart and please try and explain in good faith how it can be taken seriously. Look at the difference between 2 and 5, then compare that to the difference between 5000 and 10000. Your line graph purports to show itself as linear, yet the scale is non-linear.

    C’mon, man.
     
    Jax Teller and dblplay1212 like this.
  32. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    1-200 = 200-50,000
     
  33. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    I understand that’s what the scale may be representing, but it’s hard to trust the line as accurate along the same scale without both adding up. Plus, the graphics (as they appear on this iPad) also make it questionable. My point is simply that the graph is questionable.

    Also had 3 flaming doctor pepper’s earlier, so perhaps I can’t read good right now
     
    Jax Teller and dblplay1212 like this.
  34. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    Right, I was agreeing with you. The scale seems to be all fucked up.
     
  35. pianoman

    pianoman my drinks are free
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesChicago CubsDetroit Red Wings

    Not touching on anything he’s saying but he posted a logarithmic chart which takes nonlinear values and enables the user to present in a linear fashion. If you’ll notice the 2 and 5, 20 and 50, 200 and 500, 2000 and 5000, and 20000 and 50000 are all spaced the same. That’s how log scales work. They’re used quite often in finance to visualize exponential growth better.
     
  36. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    I was testing y’all to make sure you knew that
     
    letan, pianoman and dblplay1212 like this.
  37. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    On the agreement piece, what i wrote in here was directly copied from that Parker Lewis article. It's a thought experiment, with the ultimate point being that no one would agree to that arrangement so why do we have it now.

    It seems like the chart issue got sorted out. It's log scale.

    Spare me on questioning my motives about this when you work in the banking industry and presumably just made more money due to central banking's response to this. If anyone has a vested interest in the current system continuing, it's you. I'll continue converting an inflatable currency into one that cannot be debased. You and anyone else can do whatever you want, but I think you'll ultimately be on the wrong side of history. Society over time has trended toward the hardest form of currency, which mathematically and objectively will be btc.

    One of many problems with your position is that the fed "printing money to save jobs and people" is pure fantasy. It has done no such thing. The vast majority of the money being handed out right now is going big businesses. Joe Schmo got a whopping $1.2k and probably lost his job. And the reason that we live in such a fragile market system in the first place is due to the monetary policy and incredible amounts of debt at both the individual and systemic levels. Which is more fragile? A company with tons of debt living month-to-month or a company with no debt and a healthy cash reserve? Once you answer that, then ask yourself what our current system encourages.

    Finally, I said that the wealth gap has been made worse by current monetary policy. Here is what has happened post-Bretton Woods in 1971.

    [​IMG]
     
    letan and Oranjello like this.
  38. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Green Bay PackersGrateful DeadMississippi Rebels

    I was quite intoxicated last night not sure why I was shit posting ITT
     
    letan likes this.
  39. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    I don't like how the money was disbursed, should have been more direct to people rather than given to businesses and expecting them to properly relay it to employees, and some of it was used very poorly but it 100% did save a lot of jobs. 1.2k is peanuts to you but 3.4k for a family of 4 went a long way for a lot of people, depending on cost of living in their area. The clown in the White House is to blame for the botched disbursement.

    Companies running on razor thin margins with minimal reserves in order to give investors max returns has nothing to do with the monetary system. Of course a company with healthy reserves is ideal but that's not reality. You seem to have an issue with reality. You live in a fantasy land that moving to a hard currency is going to fix all of the issues in our economy. The form of currency isn't going to change how businesses run in a capitalist market.
     
  40. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    I don't even know how to respond to this. You really think btc is going to solve everything. It's going to make businesses have better practices opposed to milking every nickel for investors. It's going to completely stop a certain political party from continually giving money to big business so that big business can funnel a portion it back to their campaign machine. It's going to stop billionaires from using labor as cheap as he possibly can so he can make another billion while his labor can barely make monthly bills. It's going to cure Rona along the way too.
     
  41. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    You’re right. You don’t know how to respond and should’ve stopped at the first sentence. Go tilt at windmills somewhere else.
     
  42. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger WoodsSneakersWu-tang

    :laugh:

    You really are quite delusional.
     
  43. Taffy

    Taffy Token Brit poster
    Donor

    user15000 what do you see as Bitcoins use case? A currency? A commodity? Or a store of value?
     
  44. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Gold 2.0, currency (not really peer-to-peer transactions on the base layer but moreso through the lightning network), the internet's global money, scarcest large market asset that has ever existed, etc.
     
  45. southside

    southside Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

  46. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    McCormack just had him on a pod to talk about this too if interested.

     
  47. southside

    southside Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

  48. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    His article is the closest I’ve seen to the analysis. No one has what you’re asking for.
     
  49. user15000

    user15000 Well-Known Member

    Just a dude worth $5 billion saying this

    “The best profit-maximizing strategy is to own the fastest horse,” Jones, the founder and chief executive officer of Tudor Investment Corp., said in a market outlook note he entitled ‘The Great Monetary Inflation.’ “If I am forced to forecast, my bet is it will be Bitcoin.”

     
  50. southside

    southside Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG

    Price goes up $300 after it was published

    Who are your favorite technical analysis follows for Bitcoin?
     
    user15000 likes this.