Finally watched Suicide Squad today (on HBO). What a fucking shit show that was. It made the editing in BvS Oscar worthy by comparison. For as bad as he's been in recent years, Will Smith was the only good thing about that movie. Well, and Margot Robbie having her ass hanging out for half the movie.
The backstage drama involved in that movie was a million times more interesting that the final product.
It's just crazy how bad it was. I didn't see BvS unit after it had been out a few weeks and people had shit all over it. But outside of some editing issues, I didn't and still don't see what all the bitching was about. But for Suicide Squad, the hate was more than justified.
Not on set stuff but studio interference. The way they didn't want Ayers vision and forced new editors (the team that put together the second trailer) to try and turn it into Guardians of the Galaxy.
BVS had bad editing and the story was convoluted to the point of not making any sense as it tried to be too smart by half. Suicide Squad was the worst movie I saw last year. I put it on Last Airbender level in terms of terribleness.
that's a good way of putting it. Honestly it was too ambitious, which is kind of the overall problem with DC's approach to their films. They're going for big operatic greek plays to contrast with Marvel's popcorn fun. It's different, yes, but people like popcorn fun.
Especially when you need to tie together three or four possible stories into one movie. Wasn't the original plan to make this two separate movies? I feel like trying to tie ROTDK, Death of Superman, and a JL Origin into a single, cohesive story would be too much for a good director, let alone Snyder.
Trying to do that in the first place is stupid. The things that make those storylines great in the DC comic book universe don't exist in the DCCU. They're trying to dive into the deep end of the swimming pool without learning how to swim first.
BvS was a direct result of DC being dumb and trying to follow Marvel's Civil War. That movie should've been a World's Finest movie not Batman going off the fucking deep end and trying to kill Superman until he says his mother's name. Everything about that was retarded. Everything about having Doomsday in this movie was retarded. Everything about Lex Luthor, in general, was retarded. The DCCU puts no pride or thought process into their product. Everything is a fucking money grab.
To add to some of the points being made about BvS: Man of Steel was the only film of this D.C. phase. Zack Snyder trying to fit in all of these little anecdotes in BvS, trying to establish there would be a Justice League movie, was unnecessary. -The scene with Batman in the apocalyptic future and Darkseid minions flying around - You don't need it. -The subsequent scene with Wayne waking up to Barry Allen's cryptic and vague message - You don't need it. -The scene with Wonder Woman watching the surveillance videos of flash, aquaman and cyborg - You don't need it. The montage of the JL characters could have been a post credits scene. They did a good job creating that it was a sequel to MoS, and also introducing Batman to this universe. It was just too much. Yeah it's fine to include Wonder Woman, but the climatic fight with Doomsday was mediocre. I did enjoy Bruce Wayne investigating who Wonder Woman was, because you know, he is a detective.
Actually Batman v Superman was announced by director Zack Snyder at Comic-Con summer 2013. In fall 2014, Kevin Feige announced Captain America 3 - and to fans surprise, Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans showed up, and revealed the title to be Civil War. You can read articles where the third installment of the Captain America films would be about the relationship between Cap and Bucky - which is true, but no signs of it following the comic book civil war storyline. Marvel had to come up with a new plan when Snyder announced Batman would be facing Superman in a film. Marvel countered with Iron Man vs Captain America. So in essence Marvel followed the D.C. Lead, and took their idea, and produced a better product in some eyes.
Any one of those scenes could've (or should've) been a post-credits scene. They were all cool by themselves (especially the Knightmare, but I'm biased) but combined added nothing to the main story. One of Snyder's problems is he made a 4 hour movie full of cool 5 minute individual scenes and trailers that together didn't add up to a good movie.
It didn't take a crystal ball to see that's where Marvel was going. The movie studio that successfully made Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man movies isn't going to follow anything D.C. does.
By December 2012 Joss Whedon had completed an outline for AoU. However, Robert Downey, Jr did not even sign a contract extension until June 2013. And, in October of 2014, Downey, Jr signed on for Civil War. Filming commenced for BvS in October 2013. It's extremely hypothetical to say D.C. Followed Marvel's lead when you have actual dates you can find that were published by real sources and not fans.
I never said D.C. followed Marvel's lead, I just don't buy the fact that Marvel followed DC's lead. As for the dates of Downey resigning that's irrelevant unless you believe that contract negotiations are not long drawn out process that take time.
by "some" i assume you mean eyes that were open? because you'd have to sleep through both films to think BvS was anywhere near CW.
What I'm saying is that D.C. Had the idea of two protagonist superheroes facing off in a film, and signed and settled before Marvel. Look, in production meetings, story drafts, many ideas are thrown around. I'm sure Batman v Superman was thrown around in the Tim Burton era. The point is that Marvel had to commit to the civil war film as soon as D.C. announced BvS. It was Marvel's counter to D.C.'s punch. And yes, Downey's contract was signed on that date. Which means you can't really make a film based off Iron Man vs Captain America with Tony Haile starring at Stark.
I would. What's their competition? Is there another comic book film franchise going right now? Or ever? No. You want to show the competiton that you can put up a better product - and Civil War outgrossed BvS, so they did just that.
Ok, believe what you want and ignore that a contract takes time to negotiate in order to support your opinion.
Actually my original post outlined the dates both films were announced. The contract extension Downey signed in June 2013 was for Avengers 2 and 3. Not, Civil War. So yes, there is relevancy there. As for understanding lengths of contracts and the process in order for a deal to be agreed by on both parties? Yes, that takes time. I hope that answers your concern you've had in the past two posts.
I believe it's accurate to say "some" instead of "all" because I cannot actually prove every single person in the world prefers Civil War over BvS.
you can recite all the facts you want to make your theory plausible, but that doesn't make it likely.
Seriously? Thanks for the reply I'll gladly concede to your point, Marvel is simply copying what DC Is doing.
You're leaving out an important point about RDJ's contract for Civil War. The negotiations took place under Perlmutter's reign and he was extremely against giving him that type of money. It got to the point that Marvel was working up backup plans for the movie - one of them using the Hulk as an opponent (which would've been a bad idea). There was some really bad blood between everyone involved in the negotiations and led to Marvel Studios reporting directly to Disney/Alan Horn instead of Perlmutter. Long story short - when RDJ signed the contract is irrelevant to when Marvel started working on the Civil War concept.
To be fair, I've outlined several factual dates, from legit news sources, that reinforce that sentiment. On the flip side, you are going off a "hunch" and refuse to believe what I'm telling you. Is that wrong? No, believe what you want. We're talking about movies here, not if aliens are real, or if the Moon landing was staged or not.
Thanks. Also to add to your post, I believe Downey was the driving force behind his co-stars receiving higher salaries, all leveraged by him. The Downey contract was just one of the several notions I made, not the crowning piece by no means.
Ok, it's not worth arguing, you believe that Marvel is following DC's lead by all means continue to believe it. But when the script is actually written is not as relevant as you think, a lot of the future movies are not even close to written but the producers know where they want to go with it before there's even a script. The natural progression of Captain America left them with no where else to go but to Civil War. But this is not worth arguing and derailing this thread.
Fair enough, it's easy to "believe" things when they're published from an accredited news source. You've already spent your own time responding to my posts back-and-fourth which means you've essentially "argued" with me. I question the actual worth of your time. Or maybe you value having what you perceive as the "last word."
I don't think anyone would claim Marvel is following DC's lead, in that sense. Like they're waiting to see what WB/DC does and then reacts accordingly. But DC planned and announced BvS before Marvel did Civil War...because they could. WB owns all of their character and their actors were at the beginning of their contracts. Marvel was in a different place. That said, the way Feige tells it, they wanted to do Civil War as the followup to Winter Soldier but didn't think they'd be able to use Iron Man (and later they had to draft different versions depending on if they secured Spider-man or not). Once they signed RDJ they did the Phase Three presser and did the Serpent Society headfake. I don't think Marvel thought "oh WB is doing BvS we need to make Civil War happen!" I think it's more that they were working on that goal anyway when WB revealed BVS. The whole thing is stupid. Fanboyism and nerdfights is stupid. I like the SNES and Genesis. I like Star Wars and Star Trek. I like Marvel and DC.
Biggest problem was they were actively trying to play catch up with Marvel, but was forced to launch their Avengers movie in BvS with just a 1 movie setup instead of having 5 movies prior to set up everything. And they're going to end up doing it again with Justice League. They're trying to be Marvel when they can't. You don't beat the Golden State Warriors by getting 3-4 slightly worse 3 point shooters, you do it by trying something different.
I just had to watch Suicide Squad because my son begged me to see it. Just fucking awful. On the other hand I'm a great father for sitting through that piece of shit. That's unconditional love right there.
I bought Suicide Squad because my 7 and 9 year old liked it after seeing it in the theater with me. The shit we do for our booger eaters.