Official Investing Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Joe Louis, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
    Donor

    Even if youre using one of the cheapest trading platforms per trade you... Lost money...
     
    tmbrules likes this.
  2. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsSeattle Kraken

    Robinhood, it's what all autists use.
     
  3. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
    Donor TMB OG
    Minnesota Golden Gophers

    Trading in that size is a pretty good way to ensure you have poor returns over long periods of time simply because commissions eat up your profit.
     
  4. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsSeattle Kraken

    I'm aware. I appreciate everyone's concern but I just used the Robinhood app (no trade fees or commissions) so that $5 profit was all mine.
     
  5. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksBaltimore OriolesBaltimore RavensLiverpool

    but but but taxes
     
  6. Corky Bucek

    Corky Bucek Placeholder for a Custom Title
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Auburn TigersLos Angeles LakersLos Angeles RamsAnaheim DucksManchester UnitedLos Angeles Angels of Anaheim

    Yes, yes it did :badasswolf:
     
  7. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksBaltimore OriolesBaltimore RavensLiverpool

    Anyone buying SNAP?
     
    chopcity likes this.
  8. Rabid

    Rabid Fan of: DQ Treats
    Donor TMB OG
    Minnesota Golden Gophers

    Call me old school but I don't understand a company that has a negative gross profit margin.
     
  9. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksBaltimore OriolesBaltimore RavensLiverpool

    Thoughts on UAA?
     
  10. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
    Donor

    hope you got in on this. money is flowing into europe
     
  11. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
    Donor

    up another half % today

    :smug:

    tons of short interest left to be covered from french election, still plenty of upside both technically and animal spirits wise with people pulling back from US equities
     
    lechnerd and tmbrules like this.
  12. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    I like their product and think it will be viable for a long time. Not sure whats going on with the company, but seems like the stock is on sale.
     
    Hurley 864 and watson like this.
  13. Duck2013

    Duck2013 Hello
    Donor
    Oregon DucksLos Angeles LakersLos Angeles ChargersTiger Woods

    Actually put a lot of our clients in etf EZU not as a core holding but just to gain some specific exposure. Nice pop after the first round of the French election and it's continued to go on a nice run.

    Also, at the end of last year we used Acwx as a core international holding for most of our clients. Up 14% YTD - thinking about locking in some gains there :feelsgoodman:
     
    lechnerd likes this.
  14. Duck2013

    Duck2013 Hello
    Donor
    Oregon DucksLos Angeles LakersLos Angeles ChargersTiger Woods

    Finally this market wakes up to the fact that our "president" is going to have a tough time getting this pro growth agenda through with all of this shit hanging over his admin
     
  15. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsSeattle Kraken

    Swim Cantore was telling me we would have tax reform completed pretty soon. Hmm.
     
    Lipp, Rabid and Duck2013 like this.
  16. Duck2013

    Duck2013 Hello
    Donor
    Oregon DucksLos Angeles LakersLos Angeles ChargersTiger Woods

    We aren't getting shit done until this Russia stuff gets resolved
     
  17. tradercane

    tradercane Well-Known Member

    Swim has been pretty accurate about most things in this thread. Tax reform will be delayed but it will get done before the end of the year.
     
  18. Name P. Redacted

    Name P. Redacted I have no money and I'm also gay
    Donor
    Kansas State WildcatsSeattle Kraken

    :yousoricky:
     
  19. je ne suis pas ici

    je ne suis pas ici Well-Known Member
    Donor

    yeah im going spring 18
     
  20. lechnerd

    lechnerd They say Monaco is a sunny place for shady people
    Donor
    Texas AandM Aggies alt


    [​IMG]

    :yaoface:
     
    Doc Louis, Corky Bucek, Rabid and 4 others like this.
  21. dahldennsull

    dahldennsull Living in the best state
    Donor
    Oklahoma City ThunderCleveland BrownsOklahoma SoonersHouston Oilers

    Can y'all speak to me more about Closed-end funds (CEFs)?

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michae...-that-will-fund-your-retirement/#5bfe7e9a40e3

    Saw this article after a friend was telling me about ETJ, an Eaton-Vance risk managed Equity income fund, and it's crazy distribution of dividends. Didn't realize there were so many out there, and the article even talks about diversifying your portfolio within the CEFs. I mean this chart is amazing:
    [​IMG]
    They spit out a ~1% dividend monthly and their price over time doesn't even seem that variable. What am I missing here? I'll openly admit I'm green at all this so I know there is a catch I'm not considering. I assume there are tax considerations in that you're making your money in dividends instead of growing stock price? Is this a good idea for certain strategies but not a whole portfolio? For instance, we have a work HSA that I invest, since it's triple-threat tax advantage of tax free going in, tax free growth and tax free coming out, so maybe I put some of those funds in there to steadily grow?
     
  22. Big Apple Duck

    Big Apple Duck Craving a chimichanga
    Donor
    Oregon Ducks

    Think either of these have much more room to run ?
     
  23. Nantucket

    Nantucket Northeastern Elitism+Alabama Downhome Sensibility
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideNew England Patriots

    :mulletsmug:
     
    tmbrules likes this.
  24. DollarBillHokie

    DollarBillHokie Usher is the worst
    Donor
    Virginia Tech HokiesTiger Woods

    I looked at the ETJ fund you just mentioned and the top 25 holdings are almost all large S&P 500 companies and I didn't think the dividend yield should be anything like the 10% in your chart. Morningstar defines distribution yield to include capital gains which will skew your analysis a ton if you think you are getting a 1% dividend every month. If I had to guess, it got its 1 star rating from taking terrible bets, the fund company no longer cares about it and is now only investing in the largest S&P 500 companies which would make your real dividend yield closer to 2%.
     
    Duck2013 and dahldennsull like this.
  25. stexraider

    stexraider Fire Everybody
    Donor
    Chicago CubsSan Antonio SpursKansas City ChiefsDallas StarsArsenalUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamTexas Tech Red Raiders alt

    most use leverage to increase the yield - and can trade at prices well above or even well below the value of the actual assets in the portfolio.

    Use CEF Connect by Nuveen to research the holdings, leverage, expenses and NAV premium/discount before you get too excited.

    http://www.cefconnect.com/fund/DMO

    They can also trade super thin, making it terrible to try to exit the trade.

    As overall market yields climb, they will get the double whammy of the loss of investor interest and therefore selling pressure - combined with higher interest cost on the leverage.

    Be safe out there and have fun.
     
    #7975 stexraider, May 22, 2017
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  26. stexraider

    stexraider Fire Everybody
    Donor
    Chicago CubsSan Antonio SpursKansas City ChiefsDallas StarsArsenalUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamTexas Tech Red Raiders alt

    the fund is a "covered call" aka "buy/write" fund - so the yield is accurate. CEF Connect does show a recent dividend cut, probably because VOL/VIX is so low, there's not much meat on the bone in selling calls.

    "the fund company no longer cares about it" is not a defensible response - they have a management philosophy and manage it by prospectus to that strategy - they may suck at execution and the strategy may be out of favor but I'm quite sure the fund company hasn't stopped collecting management fees

    http://www.cefconnect.com/fund/ETJ

    http://www.cboe.com/products/strategy-benchmark-indexes

    https://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704201404574590610405342916
     
    DollarBillHokie likes this.
  27. stexraider

    stexraider Fire Everybody
    Donor
    Chicago CubsSan Antonio SpursKansas City ChiefsDallas StarsArsenalUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamTexas Tech Red Raiders alt

    I just went and looked at the total return data for ETJ at CEFConnect - thru today the 5 year number is a touch over 9%... about what the current yield is.

    So all things being equal a buyer 5 years ago has the same share price and all their return in the form of income. Assuming held in a taxable account - take your average tax rate and subtract to get your net return - the strategy converts a lot of capital gain into taxable income, most of which will be ordinary. In a tax deferred or free account - not terrible plus you add the theoretical (and sometimes real) benefit of downside protection of the covered calls in down markets.
     
    tmbrules and dahldennsull like this.
  28. dahldennsull

    dahldennsull Living in the best state
    Donor
    Oklahoma City ThunderCleveland BrownsOklahoma SoonersHouston Oilers

    thanks for all the input above. This quote though is where my head was at, which made me curious about it being advantageous for something like the tax-free HSA account I have?

    Definitely have to consider though the ability to sell if ever needed, but I have more than enough in my HSA and company gives me more each year, so I shouldn't have to touch some of the invested funds I have in there for a long long time.
     
  29. stexraider

    stexraider Fire Everybody
    Donor
    Chicago CubsSan Antonio SpursKansas City ChiefsDallas StarsArsenalUnited States Men's National Soccer TeamTexas Tech Red Raiders alt

    As with any investments, please do a considerable amount of research in the investment style first and understand when it does well, and when it doesn't. Compare that style against other similar styles (balanced, long/short, etc). Compare that against your goals and what you see on the economic and investment horizon. If the style is what you want then start looking for who you think does it best and for the most reasonable price...study Morningstar and other unbiased third parties and be sure to look at total returns, forgetting what the yield may or may not be.
     
    Hurley 864 and Duck2013 like this.
  30. lechnerd

    lechnerd They say Monaco is a sunny place for shady people
    Donor
    Texas AandM Aggies alt

    VIX back to 9.

    Who's buying calls with me?
     
  31. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    My model is telling me not until after jun 14th. I think you are too early right now, wait about a week.
     
    lechnerd likes this.
  32. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    to expand a little bit


    model.PNG
    You can see the ATM (at the money) volatility for each expiration. The jun 14th expiration is inexplicably low. There is no major news event that week that i know of that would cause it to be so out of line. My thinking is that its the first week out of school and a lot of people will be on vacation etc. Just tells me that its a low probabilty that we move before then. So I think could wait a few days and get a little better price.

    Skews are nearing all time highs. Meaning that the calls are very expensive probability wise.
     
    Name P. Redacted and lechnerd like this.
  33. hawkeyeOUTeast

    hawkeyeOUTeast Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Iowa HawkeyesChicago CubsCarolina PanthersKansas City ChiefsCarolina HurricanesPGABig Ten Conference

    Thoughts on Nvidia, is it still a buy with the recent increases?
     
  34. Frankie Carbone

    Frankie Carbone eh che se dice
    Florida State SeminolesNew York YankeesNew York KnicksOrlando CityLazioUnited States Men's National Soccer Team

    I'd wait for the next dip but yes
     
    Swim Cantore likes this.
  35. Big Apple Duck

    Big Apple Duck Craving a chimichanga
    Donor
    Oregon Ducks

    Thoughts on Bitcoin and Ethereum? Buy this dip in BTC? What's the ceiling for Ethereum?
     
    chopcity likes this.
  36. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
    Donor TMB OG

    when you short a stock how long do you usually have to give the stock back to the person you "borrowed" it from? 30 days?
     
  37. Gotch Yarbrough

    Gotch Yarbrough Canada eh?
    Donor

    RJF-GUMP likes this.
  38. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
    Donor TMB OG

    do yall ever short stocks? ever made a bunch of money doing it?
     
  39. DollarBillHokie

    DollarBillHokie Usher is the worst
    Donor
    Virginia Tech HokiesTiger Woods

    I mean this in the nicest way possible because I'm saying this to protect you: you haven't shown any level of financial acumen that indicates you should ever short a stock.
     
  40. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
    Donor TMB OG

    what makes you think i'm going to short a stock? i'm generally just interested and asking questions.
     
  41. DollarBillHokie

    DollarBillHokie Usher is the worst
    Donor
    Virginia Tech HokiesTiger Woods

    1) if it was part of your legal practice, you would be using real resources to find an answer
    2) people don't ask specific questions about how shorts are reversed unless they are staring at material on the topic or far along the path to making a real investment. If you had material on shorting stocks in front of you, you wouldn't ask it here.
     
  42. RJF-GUMP

    RJF-GUMP Daubert Qualified in Cooler Thermodynamics
    Donor TMB OG

    so would the paris deal be bad for the economy? i've seen arguments on both sides. on one hand you have loss of corporate profit because of regulatory compliance. on the other hand you have lost jobs for employees in the clean energy sector. I've got to think the cost of compliance and the cost to corporations exceeds lost jobs and thus makes the Paris deal bad for our economy and global competitiveness of our corporations.
     
  43. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksBaltimore OriolesBaltimore RavensLiverpool

    If ExxonMobile and Chevron both want to stay in the Paris agreement it should be pretty obvious leaving the agreement is a bad decision.
     
    Name P. Redacted and Capstone 88 like this.
  44. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    Depends on what capacity you are talking about. In my retirement account I rarely ever short anything.

    As a day trader i short things all the time.

    In theory, in the short term, the market should be a random walk ... meaning that it should have an equal probability of moving higher or lower at any given moment. However, over the long term, market has showed a clear trend of going higher.

    I think shorting can be used as a tool for some people, but not a very good use for your long term investor.
     
    #7994 tmbrules, Jun 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2017
    RJF-GUMP likes this.
  45. WillySaliba

    WillySaliba Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Philadelphia 76'ersArsenal

    Depends who you want to read and believe. I personally do not think it will hurt the economy at all. I also don't care how many Mother Jones articles someone wants to share, don't care argue with yourself.
     
    Swim Cantore and RJF-GUMP like this.
  46. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    I don't think this Paris deal has a big economic impact one way or the other. The market didn't react when it was implemented and is indifferent about any Trump announcement this afternoon.

    Cap and trade would have an economic impact.
     
    RJF-GUMP and Wallcoq like this.
  47. DollarBillHokie

    DollarBillHokie Usher is the worst
    Donor
    Virginia Tech HokiesTiger Woods

    Is this accurate? Doesn't it go against the basic principle of time value of money?
     
  48. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

    I would argue that the time value of money is a known factor and already priced into any stock and therefore would not have any bearing on its next tick.

    I guess other questions that arise are
    1) what is considered short term. Weeks or milliseconds?
    2) Do you really believe its a random walk? I guess you could argue that point from both sides.
     
    #7998 tmbrules, Jun 1, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2017
  49. tmbrules

    tmbrules Make America Great Again!
    Donor
    Clemson TigersChicago CubsCincinnati RedsChicago Bears

  50. Beachy Toast

    Beachy Toast He wants you too, Malachi.
    Donor
    Chicago White SoxChicago BearsChicago BlackhawksKansas State WildcatsMontreal Impact

    I've been recently getting into short selling too. I've had some good flops but also some decent wins. I've been shorting a company called Dryships for the last few weeks:

    https://seekingalpha.com/article/4078380-dryships-worthless