Theyre full in on framing palestinians as animals while also wanting to be trendy and socially accepted. Bloodlust isnt a good look for people younger than 40 anymore
People in general are ignorant and just following the lead of others. Especially when it comes to empty gestured virtue signaling on social media. They dont know how moronically contradictory that statement is
m Expulsion of the Israeli ambassador. He is not a serious operator, see this tweet from him yesterday.
This helps Netanyahu's narrative so much I swear to fucking god Hamas is doing Bibi's bidding here. I mean, most of Hamas' senior leadership is nowhere near Gaza right now -- sipping tea in high rise apartments in Qatar or some shit, but they sure as fuck aren't getting bombed in Gaza.
I mean most people are too busy to be able to have nuanced foreign policy takes. Would be nice if most people just said that instead of trying to become experts overnight.
His call for the expulsion of the Ambassador of Israel and his “bewilderment” at why Israel allows Jews to move there despite having “no connection” to the place. He described it at its heart a racist concept. He does this whilst claiming to want a two state solution. He isn’t actually serious about that- he wants Israel gone. I say this because I actually used some of the talking points on here 10 years to wind up a few lads (goes to show how much attitudes have changed here since given the tone of this thread…). I am very pro Palestine but he is not a serious actor on 90% of topics. Last year in response to the Russian invasion of Ukraine he organised a March where himself and his pals blamed NATO. If your first reaction to Israeli (and European and Irish citizens) getting mowed down by a terror group is to post a Palestinian flag then you really aren’t serious about the problem being solved. One of his political party colleagues tweeted shortly after the below and this is pretty much the view of his buddies .
The ticker below is a sad juxtaposition "Israel to cut off electricity to Gaza" "Israel to cut off food and water to Gaza" "Israel warns Gaza of further military strikes" CNN had this same fucking line of questioning. IDK if it was the same guy, but "Do you support Hamas" is the same bullshit alt-right bigots yelled at every Muslim after 9/11. Every black person after a police murders one of them. Let's start with the fucking oppressors and have a truthful conversation. Killing civilians is flat out wrong. Everyone agrees. Let's pull up some maps and see who is killing more
What I said back to you and see also my post above. If you’re claiming to want a two state solution but are feigning bewilderment why Jews are being given citizenship to the Jewish state then you really aren’t serious about two states.
the death toll in Gaza has to be in the thousands already. those large apartments getting dropped all have human beings in them. I need a break from this shit.
He's making a point that anyone with jewish heritage can become a citizen and have full rights, granted land, and monetary beneifts to move there while their own current citizens aren't even allowed to leave open air prisons, can't freely seek education or medical care, and don't have the same rights as current citizens or ones who claim birth right.
Fucked up in so many different ways. We have Bibi essentially ignoring his own citizens safety because he is in a game of chicken with Hamas. You turn the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza into a “no win” scenario in order to turn the tables of blame.
Woo boy made the mistake of finding a bunch of videos on telegram in chronological order. Blood/gore don’t phase me but there really is some despicable shit on there. 16 year old kids in skinny jeans sawing peoples heads off shouting God is great, just has a way of fucking with sympathy for your cause I guess. Not anything groundbreaking but I think it’s ok to both wholeheartedly oppose what Israel has done to Palestine for the past 75 years while also saying that the shit that occurred during the attack (specifically the music festival) was pretty irredeemable. Israel is having a 9/11 moment right now and I remember how bloodthirsty the US was in the immediate aftermath. Really hoping this doesn’t turn into a larger conflict with Lebanon and Iran.
You see that’s not the case. If Boyd Barrett really cared about a two state solution he would not bring up the fact that Jews can live there. The concept of Israel exists for a very clear reason and if you accept the two state solution you accept why Jews can go and live there (or the concept of Israel). He is as disingenuous as any hardcore Zionist creating illegal settlements but claiming to support the two state solution.
The problem with this take is that Israel has likely already killed more Palestinian civilians in response than Hamas did on Saturday.
Its also what happens when you kill the parents of a bunch of 10-12 year olds 5 or so years ago and their only parenting left is each other or people who can promise them retribution. Its not redeemable at all.
We killed more civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq than Al Qaeda did in 9/11. What point are you making here? I’m not saying I’m for indiscriminate retaliatory civilian bombing, I’m saying Hamas knew what would happen in response and their goal is to open a broader Middle East conflict to hopefully better their situation and/or eliminate Israel. Doing it in a manner that gains little sympathy for your cause that wasn’t already there probably wouldn’t be my strategy but hey they’ve only been trying the same thing for decades, let’s see how this one plays out.
Dang, the Wikipedia read on these dudes are crazy. It would be like having an outspoken Timothy McVeigh supporter as the Secretary of Defense.
there is no "problem with the take" that the violence depicted on social media was despicable jesus christ
My point is that I don’t believe your framing is accurate. Killing civilians is awful. What Hamas did Saturday was awful. Saying that Israel is having their 9/11 and that Hamas is harming support for their cause seems like it’s erasing Israel’s killing of civilians at numbers significantly greater than Hamas’ actions.
I agree with you 100%. Loss of life sucks regardless of which side. I'm sure I'm going to get accused of "both sides bad," but public executions are inexcusable. Maybe this is a media/pr problem but outside of this board (which like everything in life is susceptible to group think) people seem to be pretty upset at both sides. I've also seen a lot of blame on the Palestinians as a whole on their influence into Lebanon Egypt etc. I have lots of Jewish, Paki, Jordanian and Palestinian friends (yay higher education) and the responses are about what you would expect. Israel is the one who got super aggressive with stuxnet and let that cat out of the bag so I fear they're going to be pretty brutal in their response. I don't know what the right answer to any of this is.
It takes a lot of patience. IMO there's a difference between someone that is legitimately ignorant with false preconceived notions and someone who is regurgitating talking points in bad faith. You have to be able to judge the difference and willing to take the time to hold hands and dismantle those preconceived or indoctrinated positions. It's not something that is going to change over night. But over time, it can
Totally agree, but I think we should all also be able to agree that killing civilians is bad - be it by terrorism or by indiscriminate bombing.
Peace and a viable solution died with Rabin. And any hope of rekindling that chance was snuffed out when Arafat passed away
And that's what I struggle with: Israel stop marginalizing a group of people you disagree with because you have the backing of the strongest country on earth and nuclear power/tech because eventually what goes around comes around but at the same time murdering a bunch of multinational EDM fans is [more outright] terrorism and should be snuffed out.
When I posted this, I never thought someone would see that as being anything other than a joke.i guess I was wrong
I remember where I was (the world's worst apartment in State College, PA) when the news broke that he had been assassinated. I cried bc it felt like the world lost a little bit of hope that day... people still had hope in the mid-1990s, or at least I did at the time.
And that's another thing. It's like on one hand they gave them notice but I think about putting myself in that position and "hey uproot your entire extended family right now and GTFO to who knows where" and I would probably be skeptical and then get incinerated. What I think/worry is going to happen with Israel is pissed off enough they're just going to level everything and accept innocent losses. It sucks but i think it's the most likely outcome. It's going to be looked back on as genocide. And it's going to be accepted because politically this is just another pawn/bargaining chip/cog in the machine.
I’m no expert on any of this and I certainly don’t know the right answer. But I do know the absolutist positions that policy and decision makers have made on this issue have probably fucked the situation up beyond repair. Like allowing Bibi to essentially bully US policy aims towards trying to create the grounds for some kind of agreed upon framework for long lasting peace has just been shameful. There is a really informative frontline doc that covers a timeline of some of this since Bibi rose to power.
Have you read anything good that’s been written about leadership changes within Hamas? I’m curious if there’s been anything like that leading to the events of the weekend.
This is the kind of thing that really bothers me. It seems like a lot of folks think this kind behavior is somehow more acceptable than Hamas’ behavior.
The video of people, many children, unknowingly running towards their own deaths as the gliders land is horrifying.
He's bringing up the fact that jews can live there extremely easily when Palestinians literally can't...and it's their home too