Nothing that's specific to this weekend or leading up to it. Basically there was a scramble for leadership when Arafat died. Hamas won an extremely messy election with like 40% of the vote, couldnt form a government w such low support and just took over militarily. They're not officially recognized in Gaza but are the defacto government. The hard liners in Israel will never admit it, but that's exactly what they want. Hamas led Gaza strip that foments terrorism against the Israeli people is effective rhetoric both domestically and to The West.
And to clarify I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, especially in the light of further education, facts, enlightenment etc.
It's not at all acceptable to just bomb civilians but I think that's general human reaction sometimes. An atrocity is committed and the public is just focused on what just happened and people have a natural you reap what you sow response to it instead of looking into it further and determining what lead to Hamas deciding this needed to be done.
I’m fairly certain the long term goal of most Israeli politicians at this stage is to ride it out till the last few Palestinians around in 1947 are dead.
Totally get that, and I used to be that guy too. I was a total dork war monger college idiot post 9/11. The uneasiness I feel about this subject in particular is when Israel’s actions are only seen as “reap what you sow” in terms of military response, but never for the Palestinians.
100% agree. This will be used by Israel to annihilate their enemy and end any "peace" because they'll accuse Palestine of continuing to harbor Hamas and only understanding a foot on their throat.
But again, it is disingenuous when you are slating someone else for claiming to want a two state solution. You don’t act aghast at Jews being able to move there when you want a two state solution. The reality is that Boyd Barrett doesn’t believe in a two state solution; Pappe concluded: “We are told all the time that the solution is just around the corner. It has been around the corner for 40 years. There is no corner.” He also condemned the two state solution as a "diplomatic umbrella" that has allowed Israel to "kill thousands of people". Richard Boyd-Barrett, chair of the Irish Anti-War Movement, supported Pappe's beliefs. “We feel an obligation to reject the idea that there is only one solution, that solution being the two state solution," said Boyd-Barrett. "[There is] a sense that other solutions are off limits, the products of extremists and idealouges." He was also highly critical of the two state solution, saying that "a solution based on ethnic or religious segregation is obnoxious”. I am not necessarily saying this is wrong to suggest this but what I am saying is that Boyd Barrett is not being serious when he slates Israelis who claim to want a two state solution but behave in an opposite way. He himself doesn’t really believe in the Palestinian flag either. He’s not an anti semite or any other bollix he Israeli lobby would say about him, but he certainly isn’t on board with what 90% of Israeli or Palestinians actually want. He’s not really practical or solutions orientated (his general politics is more about advocacy that governing), just a megaphoner who does a decent clip.
Again...he's not "aghast" that jews can move there. He's not saying that in a vacuum. Their ease of travel, living, thriving juxtaposed with Palestinians unable to literally live at all as free people. If he wants a 2 state solution or not, that doesn't mean his points aren't extremely valid.
But he is- he doesn’t believe in a Jewish state, that’s the reality of it. He needs to be honest and say that. He believes in a singular secular state and will now have progressed from talking about a Marxist one to Ecosocialist. Is that practical or what Israelis and Palestinians actually want? He gets to take the easy position of slating everyone else (like the Israeli Ambassador who he slates over Oslo when Boyd Barrett himself doesn’t believe it in) rather than focusing on his own positions. This is what he is all about as a politician. His primary goal isn’t actually to do anything but get on a megaphone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre I know so little about the world, Ive never heard about this, the dude that was a shooter is a hero to people within top government positions.
Wait I thought you said these hostages were Hamas’s trophies. They’re sounding more like your trophies and you’d be completely fine with the losses and how things would subsequently play out.
I’ve read about 3 hours worth of information on this conflict the last few hours. So I’m somewhat of an expert now. But it sounds like they both fucking suck. Both can be true, right? Israel fucking sucks for treating Palestinians in Gaza like criminals. And Hamas sucks for killing innocent civilians.
Hamas is a militant organization that kills civilians Israel is a State Gov't that kills civilians Slight difference
close but Israel is killing a fuckload of civilians right now. Oh, and just bombed Gaza City's hospital
But didn’t the population of Gaza elect this group to be their leaders? Or should I read more into it?
Search Gaza Hospital on Twitter was a mistake. Reading the comments even worse. Father holding dead baby. Comments cheering it's death, calling them terrorists and militants. Excited of a dead infant
I feel like we're doing sales role plays back when I started my career lol. But sure, lets walk through it. Yes, Of course the answer is yes. But obviously it's not the simple. What does the end of the conflict look like to you?
I just like knowing what people think, but if tmb got the Nobel prize for Peace In The Middle East it would be nice.
You can interchange Hamas and Iran. Iran meddling has made peace impossible...and meanwhile forced Israel's hand to deny autonomy. Now, the way that Israel has treated Palestenians is where they are a bad actor. Iran is worst actor in all of this.
I mean Israel intentionally funded Hamas with the goal of driving out the more left-leaning Palestinian liberation organizations right? They have a direct hand in creating this beyond just invading and occupying Palestinian land. Also LMFAO at whoever actually believed Bibi saying that he gave the Palestinians a warning about the upcoming bombing means anything, these people CANNOT leave Gaza, it's entirely blockaded by Israel.
I havent seen anything about Israel funding them. That is a new one to me. But also yes - a secular/socialist PLO led Palestine was not in the interest of the hard liners.
A Middle Eastern Union like the European one? But these roots seem to run so deep in that area, it seems unlikely of some form of unity and assimilation from both groups, but I am glass half full on humanity.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ I may have misremembered specifically "funding" but watched Medhi's video today as a refresher.
Hamas (Sunni) gets much more support from Turkey and (especially) Qatar than they do Iran (majority Shia). Hezbollah, on the other hand, is basically an extension of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard
BTW- Im responding as if youre one of my well meaning but lost family members. That is a good perspective to have in conflicts like this. But I agree it's unlikely. The time we were closest to anything that resembles and end to conflict in was in the mid 90s. Israel's PM Rabin, and the Gaza's Arafat were very close to coming to an agreement. The hardliners in Israel were vehemently against this and assassinated Rabin (of course you know this). Many of those who supported the assassination are running Israel's government. They have been pushing for a conflict like this to justify more oppressive tactics against the Palestinians.
While all of this is true, none of those countries GAF about the Palestinians. Iran gives Hamas plenty of support because it makes it harder for Saudi Arabia and Israel to ally w each other when stuff like this pops up.
Is this all in one group/family chat? Because neither mine nor my wife’s family could do something like that where those levels of opinions are shared lol
Yes. there's about 15 of us. There's a lot of talking past each other lol. Also just barely enough civility to keep it from breaking out into chaos. I usually have that chat on mute, because I couldnt care less about the 4-8 cat memes sent a day.
That might be, for certain. As an aside, one of the things that's driving me crazy on twitter, is all the assholes saying "why doesn't Egypt open up their borders?" in response to the "the residents of Gaza have no place to go as Israel bombs them"... Here's why: 1. Egypt leadership (al-Sisi) sucks shit. Spoiler 2. Egypt is already completely swamped with refugees from the Sudanese Civil War currently raging to their south (and probably Libyan and Syrian refugees, though I'm not sure about that), and can barely feed their own populace (thanks in no small part to another major war going on -- Ukraine). They're not going to be able to care for 2 million (or however many survive this war) Palestinian refugees. 3. If they start letting in Palestinians, Israel would force out the entire populace of the Gaza strip and take the land.
I have gotten though peace talks with Rabin and Arafat, and finished Netanyahu's first run and PM and Arafats negotiations. To me it seems like the groups are still possibility working together before 2000, I havent read the Camp David Summit of 2000 yet, but a question here I would have for the future, when did Israel's PM and the President of Palestine stop talking?
If you’re not respecting the cat memes and only educating your family just wanted to let you know that your family h8s u