10-20% Nazi is 10-20% too much my guy. Wearing patches with the Black Sun and Wolfsangel isn't the bees knees. Any Nazi is a bad Nazi.
you understand this is the point right, that exclusively short term thinking has caused dramatically more harm later on
I’m not an expert on wartime weapons attrition, but I don’t think we’re exactly handing them a surplus that’s going to just be laying around at the end of this thing.
How many Ukrainian lives are you willing to sacrifice now to prevent a potential problem in the future?
i also find the finger wagging about daring mention the formalized nature of the Azov battalion and the fond memories of Bandera many Ukrainians have to be insane. you have a country at war, it wouldn't exactly be unheard of for a minority group to gain power under that tumult.
you also have thousands of foreigners with god knows what future intentions flowing into the country because they're so hopped up on war they want to get some shots in
What does she envision happening in Ukraine if they weren’t supported by western arms? I feel she’s presenting a disingenuous alternative because a Russian controlled Ukraine also leads to violence and death to Ukrainians. Feels like she’s politicking above trying to find solutions to the crisis at hand.
It's only her job to prevent those bad things from happening to the extent that they implicate U.S. security interests, which absolutely means that she and her fellow lawmakers ought to be contemplating longer term risk
How exactly do y'all think warlords, terrorist groups, etc. get their surplus of ammunition and small arms? She's not talking about Javelins, she's talking about the absurd amounts of guns and ammunition that we (and the USSR/Russia) throw into foreign conflicts that inevitably end up sold/moved around the globe and lead to untold deaths in 3rd world countries
Loose use of the word exact. But I see your point. I just don’t think campaigning to disarm the victims is a notion easy to square no matter how much whataboutism you throw at it.
I think having some healthy skepticism and contrarian voices in the room when arming a country or groups to go fight a war is desirable, even if you disagree with them.
That’s good to know, because I was starting to think that there just might be some good nazis out there. Now that we have that settled should we discuss the emerging white nationalist threat within our own military and veterans? You’d struggle to find a nation in the world without an emerging neo fascist nationalist group in their population. It’s shitty and gross but nothing more than a red herring.
this is my biggest pet peeve with how foreign policy is discussed in this country, its by far the most narrow scope of acceptable debate on basically any topic then when we reap what we sow a decade later, people act like it wasn't foreseeable when we've seen it happen on repeat forever
Because at some point you have to recognize that there is a real world with immediate problems occurring and maybe now isn't the time to clutch pearls.
I think once again we as a thread have found ourselves trying to come up with simple solutions for very compound problems.
I'd hope everyone can agree that the US and NATO were right to fight the Cold War, just that the methods they used were often unproductive and harmful. And a right thinking person at the time, should've been able to say, "Hmmm, maybe reinstalling the Shah isn't good for us."
i think being measured in response and understanding the downsides of flooding a country at war with weapons that has a government that could fall any day is an extremely reasonable position for our electeds to be in
Of course we should. It's problematic as fuck here, there, in a tree, on the sea, riding a fucking bumblebee.
she's literally a victim of the very policies she's expressing concern about being repeated here, fuck off with this "there is a real world with immediate problems" bullshit
and in a decade or two when this has hypothetically become a 10x or 20x problem what is the discussion then
The problem is that this isn't a neutral situation where you're willy-nilly choosing to hand arms to people who need them. Nobody but Putin chose to be on this current situation. You have to do what you can under circumstances that you didn't pick.
Somalia is literally nothing like this. Nothing. So if anyone can fuck off with dumb comparisons it's you.
An often overlooked version of these is Post WWII France where most of the weapons the British flooded them with during the resistance were used after the war by extremist political factions fighting each other.
last I saw over 30% of ukrainians had positive feelings about Bandera, a literal nazi hero to many people in Ukraine we don't have to do this ehh it's just a few bad apples, there's a dark undercurrent that people should be at least a little concerned about if things fall apart for ukraine
Sending arms directly to the KLA is different than sending arms to the Ukrainian military which has a minority extremist group. We aren’t sending weapons to solely to the Azov battalion then telling them to distribute as they see fit. I don’t know why it’s so hard to critique a good congress person. I don’t like how she expressed herself. I read it as self serving and a bit cruel. I’ll forgive her.
Man, fuck Putin for co-opting and sullying the symbol of my childhood hero. BRB, joining Legion. I shall wear His uniform.
You're making huge assumptions that may not be warranted. This includes the assumptions that weapons won't be accounted for. That the Ukrainians aren't going to source weapons from other countries. That, in fact, they will wind up in the hands of the wrong people in significant enough numbers to create problems. And we can go on and on about it.
That might be the single stupidest statement on this entire thread, and that includes pages of bullshit form Clover and Illini.
I never really understood this line of reasoning, is the assumption that the Mujahideen would have lost without American aid and thus Bin Laden gets killed? Because it’s not my understanding that we lost the war In Afghanistan because we got fucked up by stingers.
this is an embarrassing bit here may not be is the key here, we don't know, it should be publicly debated and the arms donations should have accountability components.