So we’re only allowed to comment on things now if we’re directly effected? Bout to get real quiet up in here. I’d add that it seems that the closer you are to actually being directly effected by said bombs the more “fuck Putin” is less of a comment and more of a motto.
Not at all. But if you’re going to advocate for a certain policy, you should be aware of the implications of that policy, or at minimum don’t get pissy defensive when someone points them out to you.
China nearing completion of their first domestically produced aircraft carrier- the type 003. This is significant. Specs put it behind the ford class (us navy newest and most advanced aircraft carrier (which is a huge cluster)) but likely ahead of the Nimitz class (which makes us the rest of the us carrier fleet).
Sure. But so are the comments that we should find a way for Russia to not be humiliated. They won’t accept the prewar conditions, as that will humiliate them. They will insist on at minimum the Luhansk and Donetsk oblasts. Easy to say that Russia should be able to gain anything in Ukraine, especially after what they’ve done for 20 years, by someone who also doesn’t live close enough to be worried about continued Russian aggression of your hometown. Question: Do you think we should lift sanctions right away and act as if everything is fine once the shooting stops? I am well aware of the costs of this war, despite my never having served. I am not wishing to continue war because of some ignorance I have for the loss, pain, and destruction that this war has had and will continue to have even once the shooting ends. Nor do I have some fantastic lust for war, especially what could expand to being a destructive war as never seen. But my belief is that the world would be better if the Russian Federation fell apart. Many of the federal districts already are ethnically and culturally distinct and have had separatist movements in the past, some in the recent past. I’m not foolish enough to think that challenges won’t come with the break up of the Russian Federation, separate from the fighting which would lead to such a break up, nor that China won’t try to take advantage of such a situation, but I also don’t believe that the Russian Federation staying together is what’s best for geopolitical stability, especially not when people like Putin are in rule.
Imagine giving Putin even an inch. Ukrainians would rather die than give up their land. Anyone advocating for a settlement that gives up parts of Ukrainian territory must not know many Ukrainians.
Few things on that: 1) it's non nuclear which puts it behind the Nimitz all on it's own in terms of power projection, especially since at the moment there's only one of them and I think three carriers total. 2) having a carrier doesn't mean much without pilots and that's going to take decades to build up. Carrier ops are INCREDIBLY difficult for a ton of reasons and you can see what trying to throw it together looks like with Russia Syrian operation where they lost like 4 aircraft in a month.
I think it's important for the US and EU to publically have the stance of diplomacy being an option that is on the table... all while sending weapons that turn Russian soldiers to dust.
Ok, the Russian woman part was a bit too bombastic. TBH I just want this war to end and it seems like the only real way that happens is if the Russian populace has a broad idea of the consequences of committing and supporting mass militaristic atrocities.
yeah I hope someone wises up to this perspective and turns Americans into dust for supporting mass militaristic atrocities
Wasn't this basically the anti-vietnam war protest movement? "Look at what your support for this unjust war is doing to our family/friends/countrymen".
I guess? For a practical point, there’s a ton of history between now and the Vietnam protests (which quickly died with the dissolution of the draft, not a change in war footing). But more to my original point, violent fantasies against civilians in “bad guy” nations is a dark road for anyone.
we have reached the point of the war where the, "it's actually all the US and NATO's fault" people feel like they can come back in and spew bullshit i guess it's been too long since photos of mass graves were posted on twitter. people forget, you know?
uh, yeah. it does very bad things around the world pretty regularly and it's been like that for basically forever. is that some sort of gotcha? does that mean that i shouldn't be upset when other countries kill people?
100% agree and have no violent fantasies against civilians in “bad guy” nations by any means. On the other hand Russia seems to be going out of their way to harm and kill Ukrainian civilians.
Goddamnit did the Blowback podcast come out with a new season or something? This thread is about hating Russia. We can hate the USA in every other thread (and I’ll join)
hey check it out, a very stupid person who thinks nuance is an attack on their feelings. so are subtexters but we love you anyway. Reading the situation as something other than cause to dehumanize Russians being equated to nihilism is a real bad take.
Yes? Handcuffed was mad that I blamed US imperialism for this situation in February. Only a very simple person would read that as the US and only the US is responsible. But given the legitimately strange bloodlust from the center libs around this conflict, I think there’s value in reminding people of the blood on our own national hands. You, a very dumb person, think that means you can’t have feelings about people dying. It’s dull and entirely expected from you.
blood is definitely on the United States hands but equating a Russian military doctrine that intentionally targets civilians to what happened in Iraq is disingenuous at best. But I guess dead is dead
Yeah? Dead is dead. Murdering civilians isn’t a question of doctrine. That’s exactly the sicko shit I’m talking about.
the vast majority of civilian deaths in Iraq came at the hands of other Iraqis. That doesn’t score you points so you’re very serious and nuanced take just ignores that
What the hell are you talking about? God damn. You realize the center-lib status quo foreign policy view is the majority in here, right? As for your civilian death apologia, it’s startlingly naïve at best.
Haven't you said this a few times in this thread? You are aware we aren’t selling anything to Ukraine. We’ve GIVEN 4 billion in “security assistance” to Ukraine as is.
you good bro, I get your point and share it to an extent. Multiple things can all be true. The history of US imperialism is bad, Russian imperialism is bad, the general nationalistic framing of dehumanizing of "us vs them" is bad. However in this case, one of these issues is front and center and that is the current Russian invasion of a unprovoked sovereign nation and the atrocities committed by said invading force. It's why I support EU leaders in being vocal about there always being table where negotiations can take place to try to end this conflict.
All great points My thinking was with the (likely stolen) new Elevator and catapult tech it would have higher launch rate vs Nimitz
We know our use of drone bombings carries a civilian cost but we still use it. Can we still call those civilian deaths “accidental”? I don’t think so.
it will always be sad that the frothing bloodblust and no negotiation position is considered baseline while anything that deviates gets scolded from 3451431 different nonsensical directions
I don’t think anyone here is happy with Russia attacking a sovereign nation or wants a prolonged war leading to Ukrainian deaths. But this attitude of a settlement or negotiation without having any skin in this game is a bunch of both sides Republican bullshit. Let the Ukrainians decide their own fate. And fuck Russia.
If that’s what they want, to sit at a table with Russia, then that’s their choice. Negotiations start with all Russian troops leaving the country pre March 2014 Ukrainian borders and reparations for the damage they have created. If the Russians agree to that to start, then ya negotiate away. Anything short of that Ukraine will fight for their homeland. As they should. Unless you feel they are out of line with those demands.
this is very literally advocating for only a total surrender by russia and not anything that could be considered a negotiated peace.