Good article about war on the ground for a Ukrainian battalion commander. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/07/world/europe/ukraine-war-fighters.html
Lyrtch is just asking questions guys he so out of his element when he is doing anything other than posting tweets for likes
Its been documented that Ukraine has been sending troops to the UK for urban warfare training as well as other tactics. I would not be surprised if they had pilots being trained here or at other NATO bases. The biggest issue in getting them more advanced NATO aircraft is the logistics and repair. Advanced fighters require a ton of support including training the maintenance teams on how to service and repair those aircraft and then you have a need for large numbers of parts to be used to support those missions. Finally the challenge with providing advanced aircraft is the fact they can be used to strike at Russia directly. Most of the equipment and arms we have been giving them have been defensive in nature, or are limited in range. We have held off giving them the ATACMS and most suspect its because it has a much larger range and the US is limiting the weapons given to Ukraine to shorter range arms. Providing aircraft would dramatically shift the policy. I could see us giving them the A10 as it excels in Close Air Support missions and is a fantastic aircraft against armor, but I do not see us handing over F15s or 16s at this point.
Abrams tanks are more likely and probably needed more immediately. Feels like the Ukrainians are chewing through a lot of material (and soldiers) pushing to Kherson. They have to do it and they have to do it now (before freeze thaw mud season starts in earnest - and then winter) but I am pretty sure the last 2 weeks have been costly.
This was a tweet so take it for what it’s worth but I read half of the tanks ukraine is using right now we’re captured from Russia
Yeah, and those tanks suck - I hate seeing Ukrainians climb into a captured T-72 - they're death traps. It's the crews that are not replaceable.
As Bricktop the white said a few pages back, it is, and always has been, a fight to the death for Ukraine because that is literally what Putin seeks. Their status as a nation and culture is contingent on victory and the removal of Putin and his ilk from power.
Abrams tanks would be a huge step up, but who is going to create the logistical train to supply them parts and expertise on how to maintain and repair the gas turbine engines. They are incredibly expensive to run and maintain. Its not as easy and just dropping them off with the keys and letting them drive off. They will take specialized forces trained in repairing and maintaining them and getting those up to speed would take time. Then there is the concern that Ukraine could abandon those tanks during battle allowing them to fall into Russian hands, who would probably trade them to China to have them reverse engineered and copied by the Chinese army. Even the older versions still have technology we don't want to get into the hands of Russia and China. Overall its a complicated issue. Funny enough there was an article yesterday about how we gave Ukraine a specific artillery shell which can be programmed for various detonations and gps coordinates. The problem was the device used to program the shells is forbidden to be exported or shared. So the army went out and built a tool to program these shells using an ipad and off the shelf components which are not classified. The video Ukraine shared had a quick clip of them using the equipment live. Right now I think the armed forces are looking at our entire inventory trying to balance what they can give Ukraine without jeopardizing classified equipment or technology. Its actually been really impressive.
hey Lyrtch how many of your 400,000 likes are posting other peoples ideas from twitter? i'm just asking questions
I thought the play was to give eastern nato allies the f16s in exchange for them handing over their old migs and soviet aircraft to the ukranians, dunno why that never happened.
probably because half of those eastern nato allies are one election from being Russian allies. Hell, Italy is a scary situation right now. Spoiler ...and so is the US, of course
I don't think the Italy situation is one where they are going to cozy up to Russia, though. The right in Europe is fairly different than in the US in that way. Nationalism? Maybe. Becoming an asset for a bunch of feudalists? Unlikely.
I think we did that in a couple cases. I know for sure we gave one of our allies a Patriot system to replace an S300 they gave to Ukraine. I think Poland was agreeing to give Ukraine some of their tanks in exchange for some of the newer Leopards as well. When possible I think we have helped facilitate some of the equipment being given to Ukraine while we replaced the stock for the country who donated it.
I did forget about this article and this might point to there being some traction with getting a few of the A10s sent to Ukraine. https://time.com/6207115/ukraine-train-fighter-pilots-russia/ They built an underground flight sim facility to train pilots on the various aspects of flying the A10. Apparently we also do have some older C/D model F16s which are already scheduled for disposal which could be allocated to Ukraine if we decided to. I am concerned with the most recent escalation in nuclear threats by Putin, this may have slowed these talks down.
We spend way too much on defense. We can spend a ton on R&D on quality. China probably has a dozen of them after they bought them off ISIS or from the Afghan army.
Speaking to no one in particular, I don't think everyone in here that supports Ukrainian sovereignty is reveling in the death and destruction that war brings. On the contrary war is obviously awful, and many more than just soldiers will be saddled with long lasting trauma, assuming they survive. The problem is there are no good solutions. Allowing genocide to take place, which is something that the US has allowed in the past, and very recently, is not acceptable either. That doesn't make anyone that wants to support Ukraine a simp or idiot. It's a very complex issue with lots of nuance, but supporting the war in Ukraine doesn't mean we're automatically useful fools of the military industry.
At the risk of backsliding the thread here artillary training has been on one ever since the Poles got here. It’s been dang near incessant. Don’t know for sure what’s going off but they do HIMAR training here.
Yeah, I thought the hold up was always the 6 or so months it would take to train the Ukrainian pilots. I’ve always assumed that after a little while Ukrainian f-15 and f-16 pilots would magically appear.
Funny you should say that as the US is currently hosting its Red Flag exercises in Alaska which will include partners from overseas. It was scheduled to start yesterday I believe. If Ukrainan forces are training the UK, it would be a good time to have them testing out their new skills. https://www.pacom.mil/Media/News/Ne...-with-multiple-allied-partners-participating/
yes, they would need training, trucks, new ammo, extensive support and support training, etc. But, this war might end up dragging into another year and if we want Ukraine to hold on and win, they're going to need armor. Also, re the tech inside each tank... I'm going to guess both the Russians and Chinese are pretty well versed on the tech in our tanks. We've sold them to the Egyptians and Saudis, we can "loan" them to the Ukrainians.
I know we have a shit ton of all this stuff but the thought of just leaving 33 blackhawks and 22,000 humvees and without blinking an eye is still wild.
Yes we see lots of overt Ukraine propaganda in here that everyone cheers and it is funny the reaction the other direction. Ukraine is good at propaganda targeted at the west, Russia is good at internal fox news type propaganda. Neither are great! Who cares about likes you weirdo. Thanks for reading and getting mad though.
This is a bad take. One side is propaganda trying to justify genocide and erasing a country’s existence. “There are bad people on both sides” - DJT -Lyrtch
Guzzling propaganda is still bad if you agree with the ends. You can make functionally pro Ukraine arguments just from reality like your post.
Ukrainian propaganda is cheeky and fun, while Russian propaganda is tragic and cruel. I enjoy the propaganda from the Ukrainian side because I’m staunchly anti-genocide. It gives me hope that these peoples suffering may end sooner than a lot of us thought when this started. If all the news coming out of the conflict is propaganda of some type, yes I’m going to “guzzle” the side fighting for innocent lives.
The line between news and propaganda has been so blurred by the spread of social media that it’s nearly impossible to sift through the two without extensive research or some sort of inside presence. it does not take that level of investigation to know which sides are right and wrong in this particular situation, though I understand (what I think is) your point that even a righteous cause can still detrimentally deceive even with good intentions.