Policing the Left thread: Where Donald Trump makes us defend Austrian economics

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Merica, Aug 29, 2017.

  1. Fuzzy Zoeller

    Fuzzy Zoeller College football > NFL

    Most people didn't receive more money in their paychecks (me included). And the vast majority of those who did receive tax cuts did so on a temporary basis. So....
     
  2. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    are you talking about conservatives or nazis because you seem to swing back and forth or conflate the two

    conservatives are not having their platforms diminished, this is an absurd take that has no basis in reality

    nazis should have their platforms diminished, its an ideology predicated on people like you allowing it into the mainstream because its an intrinsically irrational ideology that thrives off stoking fear. it wants a seat at the table because it has no intention of playing by the normal rules of discussion or debate, it wants to be heard by as many people as possible to reach those who respond to its fear. the debate does nothing.
     
  3. AlternativeFactsRule

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    People actually notice when the government cuts spending. That’s why the government rarely cuts spending. It’s also an argument for why we shouldn’t.
     
  4. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    If you read the trump thread you’d think they are one and the same.
     
  5. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    so you're using that stance for your logic?

    odd choice
     
  6. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor My life for comrade Britney
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    Ok but why are you conflating them, Mr Tone Police? Probably a lot of conservatives out there that don't think racial resentment is an inherent part of their worldview the way you seem to.
     
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  7. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    You acknowledge that TMB Republicans have switched their political viewpoints in the era of the LDPC. That completely undermines your argument. It isn’t the attitude of those on the left that causes people to become entrenched in white nationalism. It’s their own racial resentment. Yes, that can be changed on an individual one on one basis with time and effort from someone that person trusts. None of that applies to our online interactions here.

    Also, that means you should actually be working to educate your own family members as to why their vote for Trump was a vote for white nationalism and not bitching when people they never read say it was.
     
  8. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    Of course they do. There’s article after article about it in the trump thread any time republicans actually attempt to do it. Government cuts typically harms the poor or the environment in some way.

    So it never actually happens.
     
  9. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    the most vocal republicans over the years mostly left/stopped posting due to things unrelated to trump/politics so its weird to act like they were run off for that
     
  10. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    :huh:

    I definitely don’t think racial resentment is inherent in actual conservatives’ worldview. I was responding to AlternativeFactsRule ‘s insenuation that it was inherent in the users who have been run off.
     
  11. Fuzzy Zoeller

    Fuzzy Zoeller College football > NFL

    Merica Republicans basically stopped collecting taxes (on the rich, at least) in Oklahoma. Anyone with a functioning brain could have seen this coming. The GOP is bad for the country and should be treated as such.

     
  12. AlternativeFactsRule

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    But you are arguing it should happen?
     
  13. AlternativeFactsRule

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    It was with Moxin. It was with Farva. Chatch was afraid of being doxxed. Who specifically were you thinking of where it doesn’t apply?
     
  14. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    Some have. Some have gone full trumptard. Some just avoid politics like the plague because they don’t want to be shouted at. And others just quit posting altogether.

    Those are your options on this board now on pretty much every subject but maybe gun control. (In real life wes tegg ‘s view on gun control probably aligns pretty similarly to Marco rubio’s. The same guy who got shouted at for having blood on his hands at a town hall after parkland.)

    I get pm’s from users all the time when we have these discussions saying they agree with me about the left, but they just don’t want to get bogged down in this bullshit.
     
    #1364 Merica, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2018
  15. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    It should happen in ways. Hell military spending for one.

    But yeah if you’re gonna cut taxes you also have to cut spending. Doing one without the other leads to a recession.
     
  16. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor My life for comrade Britney
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    Citation needed
     
  17. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I agree their ideology of small government and low taxes is flawed. I can’t say enough that I’m a liberal.

    My problem is describing their ideology as those people being evil pieces of shit. That mindset shuts down discourse
     
  18. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I’m confused.

    Do you believe cutting taxes and not spending is going to end well?

    There’s a reason when democrats come back into power the economy stabilizes. They raise taxes to meet spending. That’s actual fiscal conservatism.
     
  19. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
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    Ts and Ps wes tegg
     
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  20. BWC

    BWC It was the BOAT times, it was the WOAT times
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    Nah, it just makes you feel bad about your blood relation. And you can't come to terms with that fact. It was blatantly obvious from your first step down this road. That obviousness has only grown stronger with time.

    Honestly, I can't blame you all that much for the sentiment. What I do blame you for is the refusal to cope with reality like a human being who used to be rational and well-thought.
     
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  21. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor My life for comrade Britney
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    I just don't believe it's as simple as that one step formula. I don't believe deficits or the national debt are inherently bad things. So I'd like to see where your easy one step guide to economic prosperity is cited from.
     
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  22. duc15

    duc15 Hey Nong Man
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    Ice is being sent to hospitals to deport people who are sick or helping their sick relatives. The republican that started this whole thing said women who get abortions deserve to be hung because lethal injections aren’t painful enough. How is that not evil?
     
  23. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    The ice thing is bad and that should never happen. But again you act like ice just popped out of thin air when trump arrived. Those are the same agents who were deporting the shit out of people under a democrat regime.

    And if you literally believe abortion is the murder of a child, then the death penalty is a logical conclusion. wes tegg talked about this the other day. Those people believe abortion is literally murder.

    That premise is ridiculous obviously, but if a Mom murdered her newborn tomorrow I’m guessing a lot of the left would be fine with her getting the death penalty.
     
  24. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
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    You guys figure this out yet?
     
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  25. duc15

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    Abortion is legal, murder is not
     
  26. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
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    That's why they want to make abortion illegal fam. They think those are the same thing.
     
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  27. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    Right, and the people who care deeply about that issue are horrified that that is the case.

    So horrified that their religious asses would vote for Donald trump over a democrat.
     
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  28. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor My life for comrade Britney
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    Yes I'm sure it was very hard for the majority of them
     
  29. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    Well then you should probably ask posters like slogan119 MORBO! bwi2 Blu Tang Clan gatorfromiowa skiedfrillet why they went from posting in the Republican threads to dunking on you in the Trump thread.
     
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  30. Redav

    Redav My favorite meat is hotdog
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    Seriously. Look who's left
     
  31. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
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    And they absolutely deserve to be ridiculed for voting for a guy that went on Stern to talk about aborting his child. Of course it’s not really about abortion...that’s just a convenient excuse so they can pretend they aren’t racist pieces of shit
     
  32. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    Those are some of the people in that thread whose opinions I value the most.

    They still have conservative stances and will speak up with them from time to time. I imagine they’re pretty appalled with what has become of the Republican Party, but don’t consistently wish death on the republicans they still respect.

    I like thrasher because he wishes death on everyone, so he’s stayed on brand at least.
     
  33. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I imagine that since abortion was legalized through a Supreme Court ruling, they probably cared a lot about the 1-3 seats trump will fill compared to the ones Hillary would have appointed.
     
  34. Teflon Queen

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    And let’s stop giving deplorable people a pass because of their purported religious convictions.
     
  35. Teflon Queen

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    Ok they’re still fact ignoring pieces of shit because of that
     
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  36. duc15

    duc15 Hey Nong Man
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    But they vote for a man who brags about paying for abortions?
     
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  37. Fuzzy Zoeller

    Fuzzy Zoeller College football > NFL

    Racial resentment isn't inherent to every conservative's world view. But every person who views racial resentment as inherent to their politics is a conservative.
    I'm not dissimilar from you. I've lived my entire life in a red area of a red state. Most of everyone I know and love votes conservative. They are good people with bad ideas.

    But I don't know how else you describe the people who put policies in place that steal from the poor to give to the rich as anything other than evil and/or ignorant. They're either unaware that the policies they advocate afflict the afflicted for the express purpose of comforting the comfortable, which makes them ignorant, or they are aware and they don't care, which makes them evil.
     
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  38. NilesIrish

    NilesIrish Not a master fisher but I know bait when I see it
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    The thought of honest frank discussion "curing" racists is absurd. I have 2 good friends, whom I've known for years that are both terribly racist/anti-gay and don't even know it. One has a daughter dating a black kid, he is completely outspoken against it when he gets a few beers in him. One has a gay daughter, same story. When they are sober they have no problem with any of it, but the truth comes out. No amount of talk will ever change this, it's in them so deep they can't recognize it or even reveal it until they are drunk. That is a problem

    And before I get the "why are they your friends stuff" They are both decent humans who have a massive flaw. I overlook that and avoid those topics be it for good or bad.

    For reference they are both about 20 years older than me.
     
  39. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I'm sure that they are much more likely to correct that flaw through conversing with you than if you just cast them aside. I imagine the fact that they respect you as a friend allows them to see a liberal point of view that isn't just some talking head preaching at them. And they are more likely to consider changing their behavior due to that mutual respect.

    They probably won't change their point of view, but all you can do is have those discussions. If you stopped having them and shut down all civil discourse, those guys will likely entrench themselves in that point of view.

    Conversing with these people is what needs to happen at a macro level. Casting their opinions aside as deplorables does nothing to help solve the problem. It just makes them seek out platforms that will echo their existing world view.
     
  40. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    That's the manner in which we should treat our political opponents. Whether you're on the right or left.

    Discussion under the pretense that the other side is good people with bad ideas.

    (I know there are bad trump voters too. It just seems like any time we let down our guards and start discussing the trump voters we know on a personal level, it always comes back to some version of good people with bad ideas. I'd say that encompasses the vast majority of Trump voters.)
     
  41. NilesIrish

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    You missed my point. when having civil sober discourse they both bury their hate. Not until they are drunk and no longer reachable do they expose it. I've tried. I've played to emotion etc. None of it works. They have this ingrained in them either through upbringing or some other factor. They will vote Trump due to it and continue to publicly dislike him. That is the issue. Your mission to convince people they aren't racist is akin to gay conversion, neither will work. It's an innate thing (Gay by biology) that is pushed into them. This is why you get laughed at about tubas and such. These people will not change. I'm not casting them aside because if I cast everyone with a "fault" aside I'd have no one left. But the answer to this is not engagement it's systemic change and getting away from this bizarre hatred that is all to prevalent.
     
  42. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I guarantee you having that discussion helps. I'm not saying their hatred is just gonna disappear.

    And you compared a social construct to biology with your gay analogy. Unless your theory is that a certain part of the population is just innately racist and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it?

    If that's the case then the systemic change you advocated is just as pointless as my suggesting we have these discussions. It's in their DNA. It will always be in a certain percentage of the population's DNA.

    I know you don't believe that.
     
  43. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
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    If you want to complain about political discourse then how the fuck are you siding with Ben Shapiro. Those are the people that are the problem.
     
  44. Fuzzy Zoeller

    Fuzzy Zoeller College football > NFL

  45. Fuzzy Zoeller

    Fuzzy Zoeller College football > NFL

    And yet you never call out Shapiro, who has never made a good faith argument in his entire fucking life.
     
  46. AlternativeFactsRule

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    People can be changed from their racist beliefs, but that is never going to happen in a TMB like setting. It can only happen one on one when it is coming from someone they trust and respect. Micro - not macro.
     
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  47. wes tegg

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    Not really. My position on gun control is pretty well documented on the board, and it's not really close to Rubio's.
     
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  48. wes tegg

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    If you believe that abortion is the murder of a child, the logical conclusion is that the death penalty should never be an option. :twocents:
     
  49. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    I think Shapiro is kind of a dickhead and has some horrible beliefs.

    I agree with him when it comes to open discourse and the dangers of tribalism. That's pretty much all I agree with him on.
     
  50. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
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    This goes back to your belief in whether the death penalty is moral or not. You can believe the death penalty is a justified penalty for murder and also think abortion is murder.