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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by ruteelrice, Apr 8, 2015.
This is getting ugly...
Terry Shea part 2, told you guys in December. Coaching OSU's meaningless bowl game = vacation. I'm sure all the OSU dudes that are prepping for the NFL right now really gave two fucks about Coach Ash sticking around to "finish what he started". Do 17 year old kids care either? Not really, especially when they have better offers on the table. But at least Coach Ash can flip OL with offers from UConn and Monmouth.
In three years, I would LOVE to read this post and eat some crow, but so far it's not looking good.
It doesn't look good in his first month on the job, but what coach could've come into the situation Ash is in right now and killed it in recruiting? The list is short and very high priced. I'm willing to give him a pass and see how he does in his first full recruiting and coaching season before I really level a judgment on the guy. There wasn't a whole lot of talent in this recruiting class and he kept some of it. If he can hold onto Wright at this point I'd be thrilled
Next year is the year Ash might fall into some good luck. Rhule leaves Temple after a decent year since he has one foot out the door, hopefully James Franklin is fired, hopefully Addazio is out at BC, maybe we get some more luck and Narduzzi leaves Pitt for a high-paying job. Then Ash is the guy who can benefit from all the chaos of college coaching...cause hes here at least 4 more years
you guys do remember our star rating went up after our last two decommits, right?
Campbell stung but it was immediate...whatever.
Rene stung but its another whatever....out of stater with a lot of loyalty to Panagos.
Russo can eat a dick for four years for all i care after Oden committed.
who do we really care about besides that? Of all these names that have been thrown around, Oden is the only guy i'd consider a true gamechanger and we got him. didnt we already expect some decommits?
Why don't NJ kids like Rutgers?
I was told by a former RU coach that Flood was recruiting guys that reflected him. These kids were attracted to the dance offs, goofing off at the spring game, club ICE after training camp, hugs all the time, crossfit in the weight room, all soft, lackadaisical stuff.
Then we hire a guy whose sales pitch is basically: I want tough, no nonsense, disciplined guys. If that's not you - GTFO.
So a lot of the kids who committed to Flood are GTFO. A few are talented but I think the biggest culture change we are seeing is not with the current roster but with the current recruiting class. The days of going out several nights a week and partying are going to slowly die off on this team. Kids that were attracted to the atmosphere Flood created are dropping like flies because Ash is a 180 degree turn.
2017 will show more of how he can recruit, but I am telling you all now...That asshole that we fired had us behind on a ton of 2017 NJ kids. A ton. This isn't going to be easy. 2018 IMO will really show what he has. We need to recruit talent badly though, this roster is backloaded with steaming piles of soft dogshit pretenders.
The only three decommits that Ash cared about were Barbir, Rene and Irdrizi. Campbell, he could have used, but behind the 8 ball walking in. That is the truth. The rest are typical Flood recruits, D1-AA players
Reynolds even though we found a good replacement.
Don't really care much about shitty players leaving, care about not getting good replacements. Care about struggling to flip fucking Temple commits.
Well, it IS my OPINION, so... yes?
I didn't expect Gary, Walker and JG to commit once Ash started but today's positive recruiting news is getting an OL with a Monmouth offer. Yesterday was flipping a guy from UConn, our fellow conference member (oh wait ).
He coaches OSU in their lame bowl game instead of heading to NJ and trying to find a decent coach with Jersey ties. Of course, he gets played like a moron by the TE from BC. Does a two star TE really matter in the big picture? Probably not, but it looks pretty bad when he ditches you a week after you offer him. If Ash knew the ins and outs of how the NJ parochials worked, maybe things would've been different.
I hope I'm wrong, but I have a bad feeling about how the #AshEra is starting off. Either way, not going to lose any sleep over it because in five years the full B1G checks come.
if you're this disappointed now, you are going to be really disappointed when we don't go bowling again this upcoming season and have all of our rising seniors go undrafted.
I think ashes biggest mistake has been letting ej go for that dude from OSU who I haven't heard shit about since being hired. Either way this is a longterm rebuild so I'm not worried about a couple of recruits here and there. Ash's recruiting mantra is let the players/results we get speak for themselves but since he's been on the job for a month it isn't gonna work right now. In order to come in and make an immediate impact on recruiting you need to have some snake oil salesman in you and ash is no nonsesne so he has none of that. I'm sure a golden or Cristobal would have done a better job salvaging this class short term but I don't think we would have been better off long term. And we tried that save the class approach last time so....
No one forced Ash at gunpoint to fire EJ and Camp. Keep them on staff through signing day, there are dudes like the DB coach who don't mean shit for recruiting. Camp could have been acting coach until then.
Im not upset with any of this that happening... 2 weeks Ash wasnt here to coach the bowl game going to save years of damage Flood did... everyone is giving Ash shit for not having a "Jersey Guy" on staff, but we had a whole staff of fucking jersey guys and these coaches still fucked us over left and right and all the good players still left the state.... Im looking at this like super market sweep and we are just trying to grab as many items we think we need before time runs out
So pretty much one bonus
And a bunch of hams/turkeys
Crazy idea from a guy who has lurked here for a looong time but almost never posts. This idea is bases on some premises that may be inaccurate, and let me know if they are:
1. North Jersey Parochials have a handful if studs(5 to 10), as per the ratings, every year. Someone on here made a good point that a decent number of these kids (conservatively one-third) dont live up to their billing.
2. Until we have some sustained success (ala towards the end of Gary's tenure) these north Jersey Parochial kids aren't going to hop on board. And even then, you've got guys who still wont come because of bad perception (shumate from SPP is the first guy that comes to mind. We had that good 2012 class and he could have been a nice addition but remember he said something on social media taking indirect jabs at RU).
3. You can't abandon local recruiting. Its way more efficient both time and $-wise.
4. In central, and to a lesser extent, south jersey, the perception at the north parichials that RU is a safety school is way less prevalent. Especially true with the public schools.
5. There are players at these public schools, but many of them, especially in the urban cities, don't have the support structure kids at the parochials do- many times it leads to college being a pipe dream for these young men as the either dont qualify academically or even graduate high school.
If the above is true (here comes the aforementioned crazy idea), why not start/associate with an academy whose mission it is to identify these at-risk kids, get them in the classroom with the proper resources and see what they can do on the field (lots of urban schools don't even have football programs). Conceptually, it would be like offering the prep school/military academy option a couple years earlier. You'd have local kids already receptive to RU, getting indoctrinated from a pretty young age without the risk of them being exposed to an anti-RU high school program/coach.
Yea I know, where's the $ going to come from? But It could be a great long term investment in not just RU and its athletics, but kids who otherwise would never have the opportunity it would offer.
I've read lots of times that if all the kids in jersey stayed home, RU could do what Miami did in the 80s and 90s. There's one big difference- those miami teams, especially the early ones, were made up of inner city kids with no sense if entitlement or elitism, not a bunch of highly recruited since they were in 6th grade parichial kids. I think we have those same athletes in NJ. And while its far-fetched to think Rutgers could start or associate with an academy ( I like "Rutgers Prepartory Academy"...a guy can dream) its not crazy to think that Ash and co. Could at least start to look at and identify these less conventinal places for kids at an early age, before they fall too far behind academically, and use some kind of intermediate to make sure the kid not only works towards eligibility but also grows up loving RU.
Bracing for some backlash and "put down the pipe" comments, but thanks for reading anyway
*shumate from DBP
3 words on what we need for recruiting: sacks of cash.
Wright to Temple... Are you fucking serious with this shit? How dumb can you be choosing Temple over Rutgers? I get the Russo decision, but Wright going there with power 5 options is stupefying...
must really want to party hard ha...im just happy i didnt follow recruiting from january-december.....cause looking at this from an outsider perspective, i just cant give one shit about a kid who's other offers are cuse, temple, and bc.
we'll have a lot to sell at WR next year
1. these recruits would be gone by transfer under flood anyway. Flood had nearly 40% transfer from his last three classes. The way I see it, Ash is about tied with that as far as recruiting class turnover. Its recruiting season so its easy to think this is the be all and end all....this class will NOT be a class that provides a LOT of depth to our roster, but if Ash and co can foster 5-8 important starters (guys like Gray, battle or a couple of the LB's, Oden, Krimin, Jabbie, Sneed come to mind) from this class it will have still done its job.
2. It must be terribly hard having the kids visit and ask the current players about what the new coaches are like....because frankly, all they can say is "well we just started lifting after a long break and we don't know them that well." That should be different soon, as early as this Spring. Fleck made a lot of friends on the team with his positive energy level on the practice field and I expect it to be lively.
3. We have to remember that there should be an uptick in the coaching department. We might find that players seemingly useless under Flood might buy in to all of this and realize some potential with better coaching and conditioning. We can weather one recruiting class if we have a new chance at success with guys currently on the roster.
Good thing we know the staff won't get lazy. Let the recruiting game put a little fear in them so they stay up til 3 am instead of 2 am working for the next cycle.
eventually because we are in the B1G (and hopefully because we are winning), we will get to the point where Rutgers will be considered a premier destination and getting an offer will be considered a privilege because it is the B1G. this current Big East/AAC mindset where its expected that everyone above 2 stars gets an offer "just because" is only because we allow it to go on.... all this talk of hiring jersey guys, playing the game, bla bla bla only perpetuates the cycle...
Can't argue with that. But how do you spend the $$$?
Use it on top parochial school kids who are overhyped anyway (which means you'd have to outbid schools with greater resources)? Or invest some cash in finding and giving a kid from a disadvantage background a shot?
I say, find the kid from a bad neighborhood who runs a 4.4 and make sure he gets through school and has RU to thank.
Yea I know, pipe dream. But watch, someone will do it.
They gotta be from outside NJ, word gets around too fast in this state
I'm trying to think of a school similiarly situated to Rutgers in that we are the only D-1 football program in our respective state, have a decent to good local talent pool but can't seem to reel in all the local kids....Hawaii is the closest that comes to mind, and they've got less volume in terms of talent, a much lesser conference affiliation but way more isolated from other programs. They haven't seemed to figure out how to keep their kids home either.
Kids get bored of paradise no matter where it is?
I think being B1G is half of the equation. Purdue, Illinois and Indiana have been B1G and recieving that full share for quite some time. They don't have the same local talent base, but even if they did, I bet they'd have the same problems we do. We need to win in the B1G for anything to change. Just being in a prestigpus conference isn't enough.
So how do you win when you're up against traditional programs with way more resources? The way I see it, there's a couple ways:
1. Sell the vision of what Rutgers could be (GS did a decent job of this but admittedly, it was more effective after we started winning. But winning in the BE was a lot easier than winning in he B1G- while in the BE, our recruiting classes were usually in the top half and near the end of his tenure, the top of the conference. We are not out-recruiting tOSU, UM, PSU, MSU or some of the west division teams).
2. Coach up and develop kids- this is one of the biggest reasons I'm sold on Ash. He understands we need to be a developmental program before talented players sign up. Iowa and MSU have both taken this route in the past 10 or so years and have seen success, but it takes about that long and they weren't starting with as steep a climb as we are imo.
3. The cure all- WINNING- it makes 1 easier and accelerates thhe timeline on two in that you get kids with better tools that in turn can develop into better players.
Every program needs a combination of all 3 and depending on the program, in different proportions. For example, a school like Bama does 1 and 3 so well, 2 becomes less important (convinced Saban is a great salesman and wins because of superior talent but not a great x and o guy. He runs a base 4-3 and if he had it his way, would run a hb draw or off tackle play, every play. You can do that when you've got NFL 1st rounders on your O and D lines. Not convinced? Look at how his 1st rounder players do in the league- most dont live up to the hype. And when he did coach with equivalent or inferior talent, he quit after 2 years with a sub .500 record).
Development needs to be Rutgers biggest focus. I think Ash knows his defensive x and os. Mehringer comes from an innovative background and While he hasn't done it yet, the system he runs helps even the playing field for less talented teams. I think the staff gets it and is competent enough to do it, I just hope we're all patient enough to let the process take its course.
Offer out to DT De Las Santos. Guess we missed on the La. Tech commit and the kid from Minny? That kinda sucks if its the case.
Burnham worked this kid out last week and didn't offer then- not a big vote of confidence. Would rather they keep the ship for next cycle. Then again, going into his senior year, this kid was poised to be a top 15-20 NJ player depending on whose evaluations you looked at. Hopefully the staff can get the best out of him.
I don't get the whole "Flood has us way behind on the 2017 class and it will be hard to fix it". Do these kids really need to be pandered to for two years to choose a school? If I'm a recruit, I don't really care when and why a school offered me or began showing me interest (unless it was a month before signing day). I would know in a couple visits whether I liked the coaching staff and could see myself playing for them. It doesn't take that long research the school's academics, depth chart, etc. If I'm a NJ recruit that was being recruited poorly or totally ignored by Flood, I realize that the slate is wiped clean when the new staff was hired.
Recently discovered that one of the founders of Home Depot is an RU alum...worth about $3.5bil and I don't think he's ever donated to RU...Hobbs should hit him up for a cool million or 100. He was in AEPi too haha.
we're the first offer for more than a few prospects...i feel like that helps and makes a lot of kids forget
Let's put aside that you would be thinking rationally at 17 years old...I used to side with you until I got a taste of recruiting again. If we are starting 1-2 years behind schools like PSU, Michigan, Clemson, Bama on NJ kids...we have a tough battle on our hands (I'm not even touching on the fact that we have a poor perception problem now because of asshat Flood). The reason we reeled in the higher profile kids in 2011 and 2012 was because we were on those guys since freshman year, so when the blue bloods finally did show up we had a strong bond with the kid already and that helped us cross the finish line with some of them.
Now in 2017 you have Micah Clark, Fred Hansard, Drew Singleton...guys who've been recruited by big time programs for 12-18 months and all of the sudden little ol Rutgers comes through? It's going to be an uphill battle with that NJ class is all I'm saying. 2018 will tell us a whole lot.
OMG I just saw this...why don't we just burn the scholarship money while we're at it.
Guys, Kyle Flood was our coach for four years.
Those aren't even real schools.
Yeah they are. They're in the same conference as BYE.
It is kinda funny that UAB has a higher rated class, and they won't even be playing again until 2017.
think they heard you
OL help coming according to twitter? no idea who unless we did offer the union city kid
lol Rutgers was just on Jeopardy...
"In 2015 this State University of New Jersey spiked the ball to stop the clock with just three seconds left... The problem was it was 4th down."
We got a late commit to flip to us - take that New Hampshire!
twitter indicating we're probably going to flip that La Tech kid and add an olineman that decommited from the illini. ash adding some big bodies at the last minute.
I wonder if this is the Illinois decommit...
Even though this class isn't star studded, Ash managed to land kids from Bosco, SPP, Immaculata, Pope John XXII, Timber Creek, and Piscataway who all legitimately could contribute in his schemes and are good kids. He's gotten his foot in the door at all these big programs that took Schiano years to build decent relationships with. I really have faith in the football program for the first time since 2012. Feels good.
They seem to have a good number of Rutgers-related questions on there.
Bah? Kill me now. Recruiting is so fucking depressing right now.