Kinda getting on board with the “why the fuck shouldn’t she be crazy?” bandwagon. I don’t think Targaryen heritage really has anything to do with her response to what she’s dealt with. Sure, it’s convenient that her family hasn’t a history of it, but put anyone else in her position outside of Jon and they would all respond similarly. Best friend - dead. Two “children” - dead. Dothraki - half dead. And on and on.
I mean Tywin Lannister extinguished 2 whole family lines in the most brutal fashion. Yet, no one claimed his was “mad”. They respected him afterwards. I think the reason why people like Jon more is because he is willing to show mercy more often, while Dany is an eye for an eye type of person It goes back to the philosophical question. Is better for a King to be loved? Or feared?
sure she's been through a lot but so has almost every main character in the books. Even Cersei has lost three children, her father and had both siblings betray her. Dany's entitlement makes it hard to be sympathetic toward her. Even if Jon doesn't want the throne they absolutely could have ruled together side by side but that isn't good enough for her.
But he was considered evil. There's a group of redditors pushing that she's not a "mad" queen but instead "bad" queen. She's isn't insane but is a villain
Saying that Dany doesn't want to marry Jon because she wants the throne by herself is ridiculous. Dany literally married a man she loathed (Hizdahr zo loraq) strictly for political reasons. On her way to Westeros she’s mentioned multiple times marrying someone for political reasons. Now that she has the chance to marry a man she loves, will help her politically, and also strengthens House Targaryen, she doesn’t want to marry all the sudden? That makes no sense. It’s the same thing that has plagued the writing for years. D&D want a specific plot point (“mad” Dany) so they write backwards to achieve their goals. It’s literally plot dictating character actions. It completely ignores past characterization because writing characters consistently would throw a chink in what their desired outcome is.
I’m going to put this in spoilers because I’m pretty sure most of you don’t want to read my rant lol Spoiler I’m pretty damn tired of everyone gaslighting the fuck out of Dany about madness and paranoia. After everything that she has lost it would be madness if she wasn’t enraged. Dany is the only character who isn’t allowed to actually display the full spectrum of human emotion. If she displays any negative emotion she is instantly labeled mad. Also, paranoia isn't paranoia if she’s right. Dany is suspicious of Tyrion because he’s been a disastrous hand of the queen for her? Because he’s been at the helm of her military plans that have netted her some of her largest military defeats? She’s suspicious of Varys who makes a living out of scheming, manipulating, and overthrowing monarchs from the shadows? Well low and behold, in this episode her closest advisers are conspiring behind her back. I know a lot of people see that conversation between Dany and Jon as one last desperate power play. I disagree. Dany to Jon: if you tell people about your parentage 1) it won’t matter what you want anymore and 2) you are inviting others to play the game of thrones and scheme behind our backs to destroy our partnership. Wow, check and check for Dany. Her life is also now in danger. FFS, the same episode Varys finds out about Jon’s parentage he’s talking about killing Dany. Season 8 (and 7 in retrospect) has basically been about how much the show can take away from Dany. It’s the equivalent of all of the Stark trauma from the first couple seasons rolled right onto Dany’s feet. They did this to level the playing field with Cersei because she’s the final boss. Furthermore, having Dany lose almost everything she loves and cares about will be the lynchpin for her “madness.” Look, I’m not even arguing against “mad” Dany. It’s painfully obvious what is going to happen next episode. I imagine they’ll have Dany do some pretty heinous shit so that it’s almost impossible to still support or sympathize with her. It’ll also make it more palatable when (probably Jon) kills her. My only point is all of this feels so contrived and unearned.
Agreed. Contrived and rushed. I don't hate Dany being like "I gave everything for you fucks" while kingslanding plays volleyball with missandei's head. Fuxk them all. Burn baby burn.
The Blu-ray covers for the seasons usually have some kind of motto on them. For season 1 the cover says "You win or you die." For season 4 it says "All men must die." Season 8 should definitely roll with "contrived and unearned."
Bran is now the favorite at +150 for "Who Will Rule Westeros At The End Of Season 8?" if anyone gives a shit.
Bran was the betting favorite when lines first came out before the season. I was really confused at the time, but clearly someone knew something
SIAP: Leaks posted in Spanish on reddit. No idea regarding validity. Hopefully copying on mobile doesn’t fuck up the format too bad. If this is true then I’m pretty happy. Spoiler Here, I'm posting it in a readable format with some corrections, **THIS IS ONLY FOR EPISODE 5, NOT THE ACTUAL END SO ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN** but holyshit, this is what I vouch for!!!!! ​ Part I \-The episode begins with Daenerys in Dragonstone. \-She is very sad about what happened in the previous episode. \-Her hair is messy because Missandei died and she feels defeated. \-Tyrion and Varys are still arguing; Varys wants to betray her now so that she does not burn the King's Landing. \-Tyrion tells him he will not do it. We see Tyrion and Greyworm tell him that Gendry has arrived. The scene is cut. \[DRAGON ARMOR BITCHES.\] ​ Part II \-Then we see Jon with the Dothraki, Unsullied and the rest of the army arriving in DS. \-They talk about how they are going to die and those silly things. \-Tyrion warns Jon that Daenerys \[might soon\] lose the dragon and her mind. \-Jon defends her saying "She is my queen and I trust her" and he gives Tyrion to look like the one he gave to Sansa in Episode 4 \[during the meeting\]. \-We see Cersei talking to Euron and telling him that he has to win for his son, Euron asks him how Tyrion knows about his baby. Cersei tells him that it will not matter after they win the great war. ​ Part III \-Cut to Arya and The Hound arriving at the King's Landing. \-Cut Jon again, he has asked Gray Worm and Tyrion where Daenerys is and Tyrion is telling him that she's already in King's Landing. \-Gold Company members come out and have a hostage \[some other random leak describe this as someone in black hoods, OP does not know who it is, but most guess it's Daario\]. \-Euron is on the boats and sees the Yara's boats. Then he hears Drogon's scream \[the one in the trailer\]. Daenerys is using Aegon's strategy when he invaded Harrenhal. We see her attacking from the top. She and Drogon scream at the same time. We see that both are wearing armor (she uses Dracarys on Euron ships, the fleet is combination of Yara's and Dany) . \-Has the music like "Shall We Begin?" but much more intense. \-Euron and his men shoot Drogon and Daenerys but Daenerys dodges them like a pro. \-This moment Euron knows they are "fucked up." Men jump from their boats. \-Jon and Greyworm notice that the Golden Company has marched inside again. Greyworm says they have to wait. ​ Part IV \-Suddenly Drogon and Daenerys burn the Scorpions and the gate so that their armies can enter. \-We see Jon smiling at Daenerys because he knew that she was not going mad like what they tell him (the song called Truth plays). \-Well then we see the armies complete each other (all fighting together and effectively). \-Cersei did something along with Tyrion's help \[OP doesn't know what it is, but they think it has something to do with framing Daenerys up. My guess is that Cersei triggers explosions using the wildfire. From the set leaks, we can see the gate being destroyed with linear trails-Drogon- and the interior of the keep in shattered explosions, this might check out.\] \-The final scene is Daenerys and Jon face to face. ​ New info: \-Daenerys seems to have a sword with a red stone in the middle \[Lightbringer? Something from Kinvara? Holyshit. Edit: Seems unlikely it's Lightbringer after all, some suggested it's Dask Sister that Arya mentioned in Season 1, some suggested it's Blackfyre\] \-Jaimie Lannister arrives at the end of the episode to see the destruction and believes it was caused by Daenerys. \-Jon and Dany's scene in the end is quite long. \-They hug each other first (it's a long, emotional hug.) You can tell they missed each other because both of them have watery eyes and it seems Jon's never going to let Daenerys go, and OP thinks they overcame that they're related. \-Jon tells her that he regrets not coming along with her when she sailed first in Dragonstone. \-Then he tells her about what Tyrion told him, \[that he thinks she's going mad\]. \-The scene ends with them face to face, both look appalled \[perhaps towards Tyrion\]. ​ More info: \-The fight is very brutal. Greyworm is fighting like a beast, he is untouchable. Jon is fighting like when he fought against Ramsay. \-The scorpions on the back walls shoot Daenerys and Drogon. \-Lannister armies thought they him from above and it look like she looked like she fell off from Drogon (Dany looks worried and runs to the back wall to evade) but he does as in "Spoils of War", Drogon flies in front of them and torches them with Dracarys. The Hound and The Mountain meet and we're prepped for the Cleganebowl. ​ Songs: Truth, Shall We Begin, Rains of Castamere (when Jaime arrives), the song of the Greyjoy's, Spoils of War with the Dothraki. Super intense version of Truth when Jon and Daenerys are in the final scene. ​ Edit: further grammar correction Another note: I ONLY TRANSLATED THE OP'S POST and lifted from the other comments and added some notes, why are you getting pissed at me LOL
Man if Tyrion has been working with Cersi who has hated him and mistreated him since birth and tried to kill him multiple times. Well I just don't even know...
True, but come on. Mad Dany, King Bran and any other scenario is better than pulling a Hollywood Hogan with Tyrion.
After rewatching ep4, I think the spoilers are mostly correct. It hints pretty hard at Jon returning north to basically be the new king beyond the wall. Also Varys saying something along the lines of what better king than one who doesn't seek power opens the door for Bran. I get the theme they would be going for, but it's a bit of an anticlimactic kick in the nuts ending. Considering the show has built itself on kick in the nuts moments, it would have been nice to end on a somewhat optimistic note. Establish democracy (a little too America fuck yeah) or a King Arthur's round table style of rule. Like I know the Lord of the Rings movies ended a little differently from the books (I only read Two Towers after seeing Fellowship), but from what I've read the ending of the Return of the King movie put a nicer bow on things than the books with the Scouring of the Shire.
Maybe, much like Dany and the Iron Fleet, Tyrion "kinda forgot about" Cersei being an evil bitch to him his entire life.
Dany going “mad” is the dumbest shit ever. It’s not even necessary. You can easily portray her as enraged from losing her dragons and her advisors without bringing in some inherited targ mental health angle.
There just can’t be any way Tyrion aides Cersei. It makes no sense that Tyrion and Varys flip on Dany like this after everything they’ve seen. They have developed Cersei into a complete murderous monster, now we are supposed to believe Tyrion and Varys have forgotten all of her atrocities? She literally nuked a bunch of innocent people when she blew the sept up. She literally just hired Bronn to kill Tyrion and Jaime. There’s just no possible way to spin the story around and create some scenario where Tyrion betrays Dany in favor of Cersei.
I’m having trouble doing the math. Doesn’t the spoiler say Cersei does something in the battle that’s damaging to Jon and Dany based off of information she got from Tyrion?
There are numerous things that piss me off about this leaked ending. I’ll just touch on some of the things you mentioned. That Varys quote is hilarious to me because he literally has a conversation with Dany in season 7 about Robert Baratheon’s biggest failure as a king is that he didn’t want to be king. Also, I feel very strongly about king Bran being the antithesis of GRRM’s feelings on kingship. Although, at this point I feel like I should be putting on clown makeup for trying to ascribe the book’s literary themes and motifs to the show. Also, how is this a bittersweet ending? It’s just bitter. It’s narratively unsatisfying for almost all the characters. Even the ones that survive sound like they’d be miserable. When GRRM routinely talks about his bittersweet ending he compares it to the likes of LOTR. Needless-to-say this wouldn’t be close to that. Lastly, what exactly would be the point of it all? That humans just fundamentally suck? Again with the themes, I know. However, one of the biggest themes in the books is that playing the game of thrones is not something to be admired. And with the literal embodiment of death coming to wipe out humanity people need to band together. With this ending, not two seconds after the supernatural threat is defeated we are back to oathbreaking, scheming, and manipulating people behind their backs for personal gain. Idk, I’ve had my issues with the show for a while but even I didn’t think it would end like this.
Spoiler - So they setup Dany becoming pregnant last season, only to not capitalize on it - They don’t capitalize on the Volanqar prophecy with Cersei which should’ve been a big deal - Bran is names king of the 7K even though he didn’t want to be Lord of Winterfell etc - Jon takes the black and joins the night’s watch. What’s the need of the NW when they made peace with the wildlings and killed the WW and the AOTD? What kind of fucking writing is this?
Same people who wrote the "epic" battle for the dawn. No valonqar prophecy, no prince who was promised. I have to think they are so far off the book trajectory at this point that it's legitimately a different story. Hopefully, if grrm was thinking about any of this, seeing this dumpster fire gets him to rethink the finale.
We only have George to blame. These guys signed on to make a show based upon the series. They never signed on to create based upon bullet points and a few conversations.
DnD are allegedly writers. They're responsible for this adaptation and how much it fucking sucks now. A failure of adaptation is the fault of the person doing the adapting, not the person who made (or didn't make, as it turns out) the original source material.
Spoiler the surrender bells that sound off in a tower literally "break" Dany mentally and she goes pure mad targaryan.
They’re huge suckers if they thought George was going to finish 3 books from the time the show started, when he hadn’t released one for over 5 years.
Thats bullshit. https://www.theringer.com/game-of-t...794/game-of-thrones-ending-too-quickly-pacing Spoiler David Benioff and D.B. Weiss’s Rush to Finish ‘Game of Thrones’ The showrunners said they didn’t need full, 10-episode installments for Seasons 7 and 8, but the breakneck pace ‘Thrones’ has taken is a clear departure from years past—and comes with disheartening side effects By Ben Lindbergh May 9, 2019, 5:50am EDTSHARE Getty Images/Ringer illustration Midway through “The Last of the Starks,” the much-memed antepenultimate episode of Game of Thrones, the forces arrayed against Cersei assemble at Winterfell to plot their attack on King’s Landing and its beleaguered queen. “We will hit her hard,” Daenerys says. “We will rip her out, root and stem.” Her advisers try to talk her down. Tyrion reminds her that indiscriminately ripping out roots without caring about collateral damage is more of a Mad King move. Varys notes that Cersei’s allies are already dwindling. Jon suggests a siege. And Sansa observes that the survivors of the Battle of Winterfell could use a bit of a break before marching south to take part in a second Miguel Sapochnik set piece. “You want to throw them into a war they’re not ready to fight?” Sansa asks. Dany grudgingly accedes to the siege, but she doesn’t want to wait to put the plan in motion. “We have won the great war,” she says. “Now we will win the last war.” With two 80-minute episodes remaining in its final season, Game of Thronesfinds itself in a similar situation. The show has won the war for ratings, critical acclaim, and cultural cachet. Now it wants to win the war for a satisfying finale, delivering a pleasing payoff for fans that will prevent any tarnishing of the series’ reputation. But much as Missandei, Rhaegal, and Dany’s fleet paid the price for their leader’s impatience Sunday, Game of Thrones seems to be suffering from a similar hunger to arrive at its goal. Even more so than in Season 7, showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are playing the part of Daenerys, so fixated on the finish line that they don’t seem to mind how many major story lines are diminished or how many minor story lines get killed in the carnage. The perplexing part of Thrones’ hurry to remove itself from our screens is that almost no one was rooting for a rapid resolution. Viewers don’t want it to end. The media doesn’t want it to end. HBO doesn’t want it to end. Only the showrunners are ready to wrap things up. In an interview published before the final premiere, D&D made it clear that they were the ones insisting on stopping at eight seasons and limiting the last two to a total of 13 episodes. “[HBO] said, ‘We’ll give you the resources to make this what it needs to be,’” Weiss said. Benioff added, “HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season.” But the showrunners refused. “We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that,” Benioff continued. “As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends.” It’s always tempting to keep a good thing going, and plenty of profitable franchises have overstayed their welcomes, whether out of a reluctance to cede the stage or a naked desire to make more money. If the showrunners were rightabout the series’ natural lifespan, their decision to walk away would be commendable. But the past two seasons strongly suggest that they’re pulling the plug prematurely, ending it all when the story had lots of fulfilling life left. It’s not just the way that the series summarily did away with the Night King after seven-plus seasons of building him up as the ostensible Big Bad. The audacity of that decision is almost admirable; in a sense, the Night King’s death was as stunning as the stabbing of established hero Robb Stark. The difference is that we didn’t really know the Night King. Because the show never let us inside his horned head, his death felt like a letdown, an overly abrupt abandonment of a story line that might have gained greater depth. Let’s suppose, though, that the Night King was unknowable, and that Weiss was right when he said in 2016 that the leader of the White Walkers was “just a force of destruction” and that “anything he said would be anticlimactic.” If his existence was never more than a means to the end of uniting other characters whose mouths actually move, the decision to deep-six him was defensible. In theory, less time spent on the Night King meant more time spent on the Lannisters, Starks, and Targaryens. In practice, though, the series is speeding so quickly toward its denouement that the characters we care about are being given short shrift too. Jon and Ghost aren’t on speaking terms. (Narrator voice: Their parting did not play out “much more powerfully that way.”) Bran’s mystical makeover has made him more of a meme than a fascinating figure with thought-provoking powers. Tyrion’s intelligence fluctuates from week to week. In the span of a single episode, Jaime goes from good guy to dirtbag—admittedly, not for the first time—deserting a suddenly boy-crazy Brienne. Crucial scenes are omitted entirely: In “The Last of the Starks,” the camera cut away from both Jon’s defiance of Dany in telling his supposed sisters that he’s actually cousin Aegon and Sansa spilling the same tea to Tyrion. The Ringer ✔@ringer The battle for Westeros continues and so does #TalkTheThrones! Join @ChrisRyan77, @MalloryRubin, and @netw3rk as they recap and analyze that roller coaster of an episode! #GameofThrones https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1DXGyNnarEeJM … 1,517 9:31 PM - May 5, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy #TalkTheThrones | Breaking Down Season 8, Episode 4 The Ringer @ringer 874 people are talking about this Granted, we can infer what was said in both of those scenes, so if D&D were trying to strip the script down to its studs to save time, those exchanges were logical cuts. But why, when handed a blank check and a creative license with no expiration date, would they put a higher priority on trimming the running time than presenting two emotional, momentous, long-in-the-making moments? And why, when faced with those self-imposed constraints, would they choose to parcel out some of the screen time in such a frivolous fashion? If there’s room for a foursome and an Ed Sheeran shout-out, isn’t there space to see Sansa and Arya react to the revelation of Jon’s parentage and claim to the throne? If the show’s characterizations were the lone casualty of its sprint to completion, tight plotting could still save the season. But because the pace is so accelerated, many corners are cut. Characters come and go without purpose or preamble. (Hi, Bronn. Bye, Bronn.) The Golden Company, which may play a pivotal role in the fight for King’s Landing, has barely been seen. The world of Westeros, which once seemed so big, has shrunk to a pinhole: Yara retakes the Iron Islands (and presumably learns about Theon’s demise) off screen, additional updates on the political picture arrive via low-effort lines like, “The new prince of Dorne pledges his support,” and the commoners Varys pledged to protect are abstract, faceless fodder for the fighting queens’ ambitions. Euron repeatedly pops up to even the odds, bearing weapons we didn’t know existed (except in a far less effectiveform). Dany “forgot about” his fleet, which she was warned about in the previous scene. (We have ample evidence that Jon, while brave and skilled at swordplay, is legitimately bad at battle strategy, but someone should be better at this.) Those legendary dragons are easy fodder for projectiles, and Dany doesn’t hold off on her strafing run until nighttime or simply circle around from the stern. Cersei, never one to be bound by propriety, passes up a chance to take a shot at Dany (or at the very least, her hand) instead of beheading the dragon queen’s personal assistant. And Euron doesn’t react when Tyrion announces that he knows about the baby Euron believes to be his son. Ask the Maester: Dragon Slaying, Cersei’s Pregnancy, and Why Daenerys’s Invasion Has Gone So Wrong[/paste:font] Has ‘Game of Thrones’ Forgotten About Breaking the Wheel? Jaime Lannister: A Dirtbag in Knight’s Armor? Sometimes Season 8 has been too dark to see; at other times, it’s felt like looking at a strobe light, as the apparent teleportation that started last season has sent characters careening around the realm via jarring jumps in time and place. “We’re used to having a whole season to get to a point,” Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, the actor who plays Jaime Lannister, recently said. “Now suddenly, a lot of things happen very quickly.” We know our way around this world, so maybe it makes sense for the series to fast-forward through tedious travel or yadda-yadda Dorne in the interest of sustaining excitement as the climax nears. But excising those slow moments still comes at a cost. Although the fates of the core characters are almost certain to be decided, events are unfolding with so little time for reflection that Thrones is in danger of not being about anything. Maybe the message is that it’s easier to talk about breaking the wheel than to do it when the throne is truly attainable. But with another large-scale conflict looming, we’re running out of time to see our aspiring rulers wrestle with their inner needs and desires. It’s long been evident that D&D are less besotted by the fantasy elements of the series than many fans who fell in love with the books, but lately they’ve been slipping in the places where we expect them to excel. If we can’t count on complex characters or satisfying storytelling, we’re left with little except obligatory battles, box-checking death scenes, and CGI spectacle (provided direwolves aren’t involved). The anachronistic coffee cup that sneaked into Sunday’s episode would have gone viral regardless of the circumstances, but the timing made it a metaphor. Although it may have been unfair—this wasn’t the first time that the show has flubbed a production detail, and that oversight isn’t necessarily indicative of other ills—the cup seemed to symbolize the sloppiness that’s plagued the rest of the season. And unlike the coffee cup, frustrating writing can’t be wiped awayafter the episode airs. Will Cersei’s Baby-Daddy Drama Be Her Undoing?[/paste:font] How Euron Greyjoy Embodies the Late-Season Plot Failures of ‘Game of Thrones’ Respect Ghost: How ‘Game of Thrones’ Botched Jon’s Relationship With His Direwolf Why Didn’t Cersei Just Kill Everyone? If Thrones loses its last war because its stewards wanted their watch to be over, the series’ rushed ending could be remembered as one of TV’s all-time unforced errors. Shepherding Thronesis a draining responsibility, and D&D can’t be blamed for wanting to do something different after working on the show for more than 12 years (although they can be blamed for Confederate). Handing off the series they started to someone else would have been a difficult decision, but it may have been the best one if their hearts and minds were far, far away. Pushing to end a series sooner than the network and audience dictated isn’t always a worrisome sign, but the only winner will be George R.R. Martin if the results in this case are closer to Lost’s than Breaking Bad’s. There’s still time to avoid a Lostlike legacy. And even in abridged form, Thrones remains riveting because of the investment viewers have made in its characters. But that deep identification makes it seem like a bigger betrayal when those characters act in ways we don’t recognize—especially when those deviations arise because the showrunners are seemingly more eager to exit this world than we are. Asked before the premiere about his plans for the finale, Benioff told EW, “I plan to be very drunk and very far from the internet.” Considering the responses to Sunday’s episode, that bender may begin earlier than planned. In his recent spot on 60 Minutes, Martin said that to be faithful to his books, the show would have to run for another five seasons. That might be a bit much (not that we wouldn’t watch), but the show’s abbreviated endgame has made it more movielike in its choices about what to skip past. We’d forgive the show for eliding the odd prophecy or failing to tie up every last loose end; after all, Martin may never finish the books (although he vows that he will), whereas D&D are delivering at least some resolution. But based on what we’ve seen so far, the series’ final season may leave fans pining for a compromise between never finishing and finishing too soon.
If they are going full steam ahead on mad Dany I almost want them to go with this route because D&D may legitimately never write again. Also, if those leaks are true then the Dothraki start raping people in King’s Landing as well. Good luck with that....
They've shown such attentiveness to the lore this season i wouldn't be surprised if the Unsullied start raping people
The show never touched on the Valanqar prophecy at all do not surprising that they are not staying true to it.
Am I missing something in the leaks about how Cersei dies? I just keep reading “and Jaime goes to die with her”. Her death is a massive, massive scene people have been waiting for.
I’m not sure there’s a clear leak saying how she dies. One of them mentions that Jaime is mortally wounded after fighting and killing Euron and he goes up to the red keep where Cersei is and they die together when it collapses, presumably from dragon fire damage.
I mean some of this shit is so retarded that my lizard brain keeps trying to tell me they’re controlled leaks from the show but then I remember the other season 8 episodes.