Small Business Thread - Advice for Navigating Covid-19

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by dallasdawg, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    ahh damn. i applied the wednesday after april 3. probably going to be waiting a while
     
  2. gocams

    gocams Well-Known Member

    We received the grant for the ones applied for on March 31st but not the ones on March 30th. No other info for either. My business partner had his credit checked from the March 30th app. No credit check for me. There is several hundred thousand difference in the number of our applications from the first on the 30th to the last on the 1st.
     
  3. NoNatty

    NoNatty Keyboard Cowboy
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    FC2C31BE-FBEB-41FD-964B-DC4E5A81249B.jpeg

    Just got this email from chase. FWIW all we submitted was 2 pages of payroll docs. They didn’t request anything else.
     
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  4. RalfBully

    RalfBully #21
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    It’s getting refunded on Thursday
     
  5. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    $310 billion apparently
     
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  6. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    yep. Going to go quicker this time. Banks have there queues ready to roll fast.
     
  7. Russellin4885

    Russellin4885 Well-Known Member
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    I'm trying to run pay roll and can't find a straight answer when I google for all this. I'm getting confused on what is included in the forgivable part of payroll My confusion lies with taxes. It is my understanding that only the employer 941 fica and medicare match is to be included in the forgivable amount. Is that correct? So I wouldn't include the federal, fica, and medicare portion with held from the employees checks? Or the state withholding?
     
  8. Houndster

    Houndster $25 Standard Unit
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    Gross wages + SALT taxes paid by the Employer (typically just state unemployment taxes)
     
  9. Russellin4885

    Russellin4885 Well-Known Member
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    I appreciate the reply back but I've never heard the term SALT taxes. So the employer match on FICA & Medicare would not be included in the forgivable amount?
     
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  10. Houndster

    Houndster $25 Standard Unit
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    SALT means State and Local taxes. The employer FICA taxes are not included in the forgivable amount. Any employer paid health insurance and retirement matches are eligible for forgiveness as well.

    Here’s the official definition of payroll costs according to the Cares Act:
    ‘‘(viii) the term ‘payroll costs’— ‘‘(I) means— ‘‘(aa) the sum of payments of any compensation with respect to employees that is a— ‘‘(AA) salary, wage, commission, or similar compensation; ‘‘(BB) payment of cash tip or equivalent; ‘‘(CC) payment for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; ‘‘(DD) allowance for dismissal or separation; ‘‘(EE) payment required for the provisions of group health care benefits, including insurance premiums; ‘‘(FF) payment of any retirement benefit; or ‘‘(GG) payment of State or local tax assessed on the compensation of employees
     
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  11. CUAngler

    CUAngler Royale with Cheese
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    Dumb question potentially, but is any short term disability that I provide as a benefit included?
     
  12. Houndster

    Houndster $25 Standard Unit
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    I don’t think so. Group healthcare and retirement seem to be the only benefits that are included
     
  13. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    quickbooks payroll added a few features, one being employee hour tracking

    1727C3F8-9B28-4B6A-A56F-F9AA82A461B2.jpeg
     
  14. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    to add on, you can get a tax credit for your federal taxes if a. your business was forced to close or b. your revenue dropped by more than 50% over the same period from 2019

    obviously doesn’t apply to the PPP forgiveness, but there are still benefits for employers
     
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  15. Deuce

    Deuce Well-Known Member
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    Updated guidance clarifications today:

    Companies were required to certify that the loan request was necessary to support the ongoing operations of the business. Further clarifies that larger companies who have access to additional liquidity, through capital markets would be unable to make that certification in good faith. It gives those companies who wish to return the funds given this new clarification in the guidance until May 7th.
     
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  16. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    Hearing it may open back up tonight
     
  17. Russellin4885

    Russellin4885 Well-Known Member
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    Still seems vague, what qualifies as "larger" company?
     
  18. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    SBA to begin accepting application on Monday, April 27, 2020 at 10:30 AM ET
     
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  19. Marbles

    Marbles Trudging the road to happy destiny
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    Well. Didn’t get the US Camber Grant. It took me 5 hours to get through the application with their computer crashing but they ran out of money in the first 2.
     
  20. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    His summary was somewhat of an oversimpliciation. The clarifying guidance is not limited to "larger" companies. It applies to all borrowers.

    ETA: The question asks about larger companies, but the answer clearly indicates the requirements apply to "all borrowers". See question 31 https://home.treasury.gov/system/fi...ection-Program-Frequently-Asked-Questions.pdf
     
  21. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    Is that when I'll be able to start it? Or is there a link available for me to get started on it now?
     
  22. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    You should have started a week ago. Today the SBA will begin processing applications submitted by banks. Most banks have been accepting applications continuously over the last week or so. Basically, hundreds or thousands of banks will submit hundreds or thousands of applications all at once, so the funds will go very fast
     
  23. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    Well. I'm still going to try, so just telling me not to even try because I'm too late doesn't help much.
     
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  24. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    I would try PayPal or cabbage at this point. It’s probably too late with your bank. My bank quit taking apps Thursday in order to have all current ones ready this morning. You need to get in in the next 20 minutes if possible
     
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  25. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    The money may be gone by today. I don’t think it last more than a day or two
     
  26. dallasdawg

    dallasdawg does the tin man have a sheet metal cock?
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    any updates on the EIDL program? i know some of y’all had credit checks done over the last week
     
  27. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. I thought I needed to do it myself through the SBA website rather than my bank.

    On the flip side, it's not a huge deal if I don't get one, as I think my business will be fine, but I'd be remiss not to at least try and get free money since I'm sure we'd qualify.
     
  28. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say you shouldn't try.
     
  29. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I would not put these thoughts in writing, as it's become clear it's not "free money" and if the SBA were to link up your application with TMB user Gin Buckets they would know you did not need the funds and therefore fraudulently obtained the loan
     
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  30. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    Well I'm not going to get it now anyway, so it doesn't matter. Also, I did say "should" be fine. There's a chance business dries up, and it would the moment construction stopped because of the virus, as we supply that industry.
     
  31. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I'm not trying to get into an argument with you -- I'm trying to help you. But you clearly said "will be fine" and not "should be" so I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

    In any event, you make the certification at the time you apply for the loan. It's abundantly clear now (unlike a week ago) that you must make it in good faith and based on the circumstances at the time you apply. By putting your thoughts that you don't need the money and that your business will be fine in writing, then you can't really say you're applying in good faith. Do whatever you want, but I wouldn't continue to post evidence of fraud on a public message board
     
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  32. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    I will add that there's a chance you can still get the loan if you begin the process now. SBA changed the lender requirements again yesterday, and are capping the amount of loans banks can originate. So don't use Chase or Wells Fargo, but go with a small local bank. An hour ago, I would have recommended PayPal, but due to the cap I'm not so sure

    Gin Buckets
     
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  33. Gin Buckets

    Gin Buckets Well-Known Member
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    I totally understand what you're saying --- my bad. I'm not wording shit properly, and I appreciate your input.
     
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  34. stric006

    stric006 Recovering Butter Beer addict
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    I can't believe I just found this thread. I have not received our PPP yet. Hoping to get it this go around. The app was handed over to SBA but fund ran out. Anyone else in this situation and do you feel confident you will get it this go around?
     
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  35. stric006

    stric006 Recovering Butter Beer addict
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    Our banker told me they project a burn rate of 50B per day. So you aren't far off.
     
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  36. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    Anyone in banking seeing SBA approvals? It’s quiet here so I’m not sure if the system is bogged down or not
     
  37. Deuce

    Deuce Well-Known Member
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    I know we had at least one that was approved this morning.

    After that was told the SBA's system went down at 9:45 Central.
     
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  38. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    That’s what I figured
     
  39. Gallant Knight

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    ....you can be fine and still qualify for the loan

    You don’t have to be on the brink of bankruptcy
     
    #1239 Gallant Knight, Apr 27, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  40. gowolverines8

    gowolverines8 Well-Known Member

  41. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but you can't both "be fine" and "not need the money" and still in good faith certify that the loan is necessary. The SBA/Treasury has taken a strict interpretation of the word "necessary."

    Whether a small business owner will ever get caught or be investigated is an entirely different matter. But the applicant still has to make the certification

    ETA: I think most small businesses can justify their reasons for obtaining the loan, and articulating those reasons in a memo dated around the time of loan origination will go a long way to helping fend off any potential investigations. It would also not surprise me if the SBA requires a statement for why the loan was necessary or something like that in order to obtain forgiveness. There's been a lot of bad press on the program, and they seem to be overreacting in response.
     
    #1241 Oranjello, Apr 27, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
  42. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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  43. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    Also my understanding is if a bank has over 15,000 apps the can do a mass upload. Seems to be fucking smaller community based banks if that is the case.
     
  44. AptosDuck

    AptosDuck Pedantic Hausfrau
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    Haven't heard from the bank in 10 days since they said we were funded, wait for instructions. Today got an email saying that our loan was updated to "under review," which surprised and confused us. Then two hours later we get an email saying "incomplete application." So now I'm in WTF mode and get into the bank website, look at what they said we didn't submit, and it turns out they just sent us the loan docs for signing and it's incomplete because we haven't signed and returned them yet. RELIEF
     
  45. stric006

    stric006 Recovering Butter Beer addict
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    Last email we received stated our app was submitted to SBA for final approval and they ran out of cash. That was 11 days ago.
     
  46. Deuce

    Deuce Well-Known Member
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    Can upload 5,000 at a time. They will still only process 350 per hour.


    It actually very favorable to community banks.
     
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  47. DUCKMOUTH

    DUCKMOUTH People don’t you know, don’t you know
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    that makes more sense. Good to hear
     
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  48. Deuce

    Deuce Well-Known Member
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    Unless you are greater than number 15,000 or so in Chase's queue.
     
  49. Nole0515

    Nole0515 Well-Known Member
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    got the Email this morning that we got approved for PPP. Thank fucking god
     
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  50. stric006

    stric006 Recovering Butter Beer addict
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    We are still waiting. This is the fucking worst. We just got approved to open Friday and if we don't get this loan I have no clue how we are going to word this to our employees.