Snobby pool thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by lechnerd, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. OZ2

    OZ2 Well-Known Member

    What I’m trying to say, in a roundabout way, is people are fucking idiots and they don’t understand it from the other side.

    I get you are into it to make money, obviously that’s the point, but as a society we are so fucking stupid we have created this problem where people
    1) expect to have stuff done on their own schedule at their own time (the guy expecting him to be there in 110+ heat with his expectations when he is one of many, especially after Texas conditions from winter)
    2) This leads to your area doing the same thing as you expect from the contractors. Over-delivering for lower prices. You literally are doing the same thing you expect out of them and don’t even realize it?
    3) The contractors fighting over pennies to secures a job.

    Maybe I’m arguing against a lot of capitalism but fuck that lifestyle. I’ve seen it up close and personal and I don’t wish a 70-100 hour work week on anybody.
     
  2. tmank87

    tmank87 Well-Known Member

    Yep. I’m with you. It’s all about being fair and reasonable. From both sides.

    I don’t wish 100 hour work weeks on anyway either. And agree again, most people are idiots and have unrealistic expectations of reality.
     
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  3. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    I have made a conscious effort to cut back on my client list for almost 1.5 years now. I have been raising prices and giving extremely long timelines to people that I have not done work for or who are hard to deal with. It does not matter, if you do quality work and do it when you say you do, word gets out.

    I have even gone so far as to tell people and companies, “this is the price for the job, this is the price to do it on your unreasonable lead time” (can be as much as 150%-200% of normal price). The bottom line is, there is a need for skilled & competent help in almost all industries.

    Hopefully the general public, and even industry people (whatever industry that may be) will wise up soon and realize that dragging the competent people that are out there delivering on promises is not the way to elevate the labor shortage.
     
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  4. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    The hell are you on about?
     
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  5. tmank87

    tmank87 Well-Known Member

    It is pretty simple. The ability to be able to “name your price” is quite cyclical.
     
  6. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    Are you an insurance adjuster, per chance? Curious about your professional background based on some of your generalizations. I'm a GC, btw.
     
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  7. tmank87

    tmank87 Well-Known Member

    I’m not. I am a GC, as well. Also work in Corporate America. How long have you been in business?
     
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  8. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    In the field since college. 21 years. 90% residential. Relatively stable market in VA.
     
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  9. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    Intended to reply. See response above.
     
  10. tmank87

    tmank87 Well-Known Member

    Nice. What are your thoughts on the next 18-24 months?
     
  11. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    Take it to the “tmank’s general contracting job I don’t care about” thread
     
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  12. tmank87

    tmank87 Well-Known Member

    Good one.
     
  13. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    Market is not sustainable for long term, but barring something economically catastrophic, our market is likely going to be strong for 5-10 years. This is based on housing demand and the proportion of interest rates to material costs. Those factors will change, but I see them as somewhat inversely proportional. Have had our best gross years back to back, and it has been mid to high end work. Now, let's say there is an unforeseen downturn, I'd look for new construction to decrease, though not stop. In that case, renovations nearly always increase. My two cents. Sorry blind dog ,I'm done.
     
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  14. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    What kinda size jobs are we calling ourselves GC's of in here?
     
  15. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    I'm small fish. Supposed to stay under $750k/yr. 5 employees.
     
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  16. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    That's where perspective comes in

    I'm a GC where our bonding power is about $400 million a year.
    We are at the point where we can select what subcontractors we want to use based on ease of use. It's not a world where we rely on people who over promise and under deliver. Quite the opposite.
    That is the world that people like a.tramp are heading for, not the world he is stuck in
     
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  17. Funshot Residue

    Funshot Residue Ol' goopy eye, they called him
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    Same perspective. Our reputation is based on communication, planning, and following through. We use subs (albeit far smaller than yours) that can and do back that up. There is a stark contrast (beyond price) in good and bad contractors. Forgive my knee jerk reaction to people lumping us all together.
     
  18. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Good for you brother
    Ain't many out there that are doing it right

    I know all to well the knee jerk reaction
     
  19. tigr2ndbase

    tigr2ndbase Well-Known Member
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    We’re looking at adding a pool. What’s everyone’s thoughts about doing it now or waiting to see how the economy does. We know with material issues and labor shortages it’s going to take awhile. We’re on the fence that if we wait a year then maybe things might get back to normal.
     
  20. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    DONT DO IT
     
  21. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    But fr we love our pool but just be ready to spend a lot more money and/or time than you expect to (from my experience anyway)
     
  22. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    Sorry that this got lost in the cracks of the thread. Hopefully not too late to be of some use.

    Inspection: If possible, pay the money for an actual pool inspection. A lot of “home inspections” I see list petty things with the pool that are not actual issues and completely miss the important things. Like electrical code, properly functioning equipment, and small leaks at the equipment. I have been out to numerous pools after a “home inspection” and the only possible conclusion that could be reached is that the inspector did not know how to operate it, so marked it as non-functional. A lot of pool equipment set-ups are not cut and dry like going to a thermostat and turning on the ac and heat.

    As far as a sat system, make sure everything is bonded. Weekly chemical checks to make sure pH does not skyrocket. Keeping other means of chlorine available for when the salt system decides to stop generating chlorine.

    Hope that helps.
     
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  23. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    Also Angry Dolphin , you can PM me pics of the equipment and I can tell you what you are in for short and long term in regards to keeping equipment operational. Just because it “passes” an inspection now does not mean that you won’t be in need of $1000s in repair or replacement in very short order. Or post it in this thread if you are comfortable with it.
     
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  24. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    Have you talked to any local builders to see how far out they are currently? If they are 1-1.5 years, it is hard to not get on the list if it is something you are absolutely sure you are going to do. But, if they are only 6 months out, might now hurt to wait and see what things look like then.

    With that being said, the pool industry is stretched so thin right now. Equipment, chemicals, materials for builds, every single thing. The only thing we are not short on is customers wanting stuff done now. We are about 1 more unforeseen event away from people that have been in the industry for life checking out and finding a place to flip burgers just to regain some sanity.
     
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  25. tigr2ndbase

    tigr2ndbase Well-Known Member
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    Seems like everyone in the Tampa area is on a 10-12 month lead time. Several we’ve checked with aren’t even taking on new clients while others are only accepting projects over $100k. If we wait to get on a list we could be 2-3 years out on completion if things get worse. At the same time, if things get worse then we got bigger issues. One builder has already gone under and left a lot of people screwed here. Also, with 2 little kids I don’t want a big hole n my backyard for months as a safety issue. I’m leaning towards just getting quotes and narrowing down exactly what we want then waiting until first of the year to see if this craziness is getting back to normal.
     
  26. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    I think that is a good call with the additional details you added.
     
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  27. Zack Zedalis

    Zack Zedalis Silver Foxin'
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    I been known to flip a burger or two
     
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  28. kennypowers

    kennypowers Big shit like a dinosaur did it
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    Our home inspector told us that there are no lights in the pool and the heater was not functional. There are definitely lights in the pool and the heater works, just the LCD panel was sun damaged.
     
  29. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    Exactly.
     
  30. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    That was the exact reason our heater didn’t work when we moved in. a.tramp likes to make fun of my dinosaur heater but it’s still plugging along!
     
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  31. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    To be perfectly clear, I just like to make fun of you. Your janky old heater is just one of the many vessels with which I deliver good natured nut kickings.
     
  32. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    And my salt cell is dead. Pools are cool!
     
  33. tigr2ndbase

    tigr2ndbase Well-Known Member
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    a.tramp we are getting our first quote Saturday. I have a guess at what the price will be but want to get you to give a guess. Here’s an example of generally what we’re looking for.

    ETA pictures aren’t uploading. Basically rectangle pool with hot tub and sun deck. Cage enclosure. I’ll keep trying on the pictures.
     
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  34. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    I have no idea on the enclosures as they are not a thing in DFW. I have literally only seen 1 here in 20 years of doing pool work.

    What is the equipment situation? How many pumps (filter only or also sweep, spa booster, water feature, etc)? Also, regular white lights or LEDs and how many?

    Also, are you sticking with entry level materials (plaster, tile, coping) or are you going premium finish or somewhere in between?
     
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  35. tigr2ndbase

    tigr2ndbase Well-Known Member
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    Not sure on the equipment as this is my first time owning a pool so any advice is appreciated. No water feature, led lights..one on each side.
     
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  36. Zack Zedalis

    Zack Zedalis Silver Foxin'
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    15x30/ 16x32/ 18/36… what are you talking about for size? What is your service choice, coping, deck? That info will help get a price idea
     
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  37. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    It all comes down preference and what you want to pay for. A 3hp variable speed filter pump pretty much eliminates the need for a spa booster pump so long as it is not a huge spa and/or has an obscene amount of jets.

    I recommend a cleaner that runs off of a booster pump. That means it will have a dedicated return line. It is a better performer than a suction based sweep.

    Water feature pump would be needed if you have a substantial elevated feature(s) designed in. Not necessary at all unless you want the added esthetic and ambiance. They can also keep your pool ever so slightly cooler.

    Basically, every additional pump means additional upkeep. That means money. The upfront cost on the pumps are not that great as most companies do not make much on equipment during builds. But ongoing repairs and replacement are when they start costing.

    But the biggest issue with more pumps is more underground plumbing to the pool. Each additional line, outside of what is needed for basic circulation and function of the pool & spa, means that there is potential for costly leak detection/repairs down the road.

    I am guessing a standard set-up will run from $45k-$65k depending on the builder and finish materials chosen. That is just to extend out to coping. Any sort of decking would be additional.
     
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  38. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    And as Zack Zedalis pointed out and his life experience has painfully demonstrated, size does matter.
     
  39. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    ned's head in here lurking, thinking about owning a pool again I see.
     
  40. ned's head

    ned's head Well-Known Member
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    I like to be able to share my knowledge when you're away goofing off. Maybe someone in the midst of an emergency will need to know about drain plugs or levers
     
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  41. tigr2ndbase

    tigr2ndbase Well-Known Member
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    a.tramp similar to this with a few changes. No infinity edge. 0B9636FF-B0E1-4BAE-8CC9-676AC30437D0.jpeg
     
  42. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    ABAFD0E9-66F4-4AEB-8022-1CEC7752E430.gif
     
  43. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    So apparently Don Henley’s indoor spa has been down since the freeze, equipment is outside. I have no idea why it is still down, can only assume someone dropped the ball. Well, he now has a proposal to address that.

    Yes, huge look at me post. My pot-smoking step grandpa who turned me onto The Eagles at a very young age is smiling from the beyond right now.
     
  44. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Is he gunna leave you a nice ice cold glass of water for your troubles?
     
  45. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    I can only assume that he knows nothing of my comings and goings. That is pretty standard for most of he high-profile clients I deal with. There are some exceptions though. This is through the home builder, through the pool builder, and onto me. And my dealings are with the property manager.
     
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  46. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    So the wife is insanely jealous of a neighbor who is putting in a pool and even though we talked about doing it 3-4 years down the road. She wants to speed up that timeline.

    a.tramp how long do I need to hold her off so I can at least not pay pandemic pricing for this damn pool?
     
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  47. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    I don’t really know as I am not involved on much during new construction. I would assume when builders get back to regular amounts of projects in the hopper. Which could be _ ???
     
  48. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    Neighbor just put the deposit down on a pool that won't be installed until December...

    :killme:
     
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  49. blind dog

    blind dog wps
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    That seems pretty quick tbh
     
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  50. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    not for south florida. Pre pandemic, you could break ground on a new pool as quickly as you finalize the plans.