Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'TMB Book Club' started by The Blackfish, Dec 10, 2012.
Just finished The Dark Tower (#7)
Fucking ending is bullshit right?
hated it at first. I've since come to terms with
the loop, but still think he blew it with Flagg and the Crimson King.
He blew it after book 4 imo. Books 5 was not that good, 6 was unreadable. 7 was better but not up to the quality of the first 4 imo. To me it seems like he hastily slapped something together just to have it done. Think he started feeling rushed when he had that near death experience being run over by that van.
Kinda how I'm feeling.
The endings of Flagg, Mordred and the Crimson Kings were sooo anti-climatic and disappointing. I was pissed about the loop (see my op) but like you said I feel a little better about it since I've thought about it a lot. I wouldn't feel any better had he not recovered Eld's Horn in this loop. It makes me kind of think of a Groundhog's day type situation in that he will keep doing the same quest (day in Groundhog's day) over and over until he gets it right. The way he has dealt with the 3 main villians is inexcusable though.
I read Books 1-4 like 3 years ago and then couldn't get into book 5 so I stopped. Finally picked tWotC back up and actually enjoyed 5-7, mainly I think because of the big break I took.
is what finally let me get peace on the matter.
still upset with him for how he handled
ole Randall and the final reveal of the Crimson King.
I had a big break between the first four and the last three as well. I actually went to the bookstore to get 4 when it came out
Four was by far the most anticipated. What a fucking cliffhanger at the end of 3 with
the riddle contest. I actually thought he did an awesome job of resolving it too, with Eddie using those ridiculous jokes to beat the Mono. The last three don't have any parts as good as that. Or the part in 2 where Eddie is smuggling that heroin and they have a shootout with the mob and all that. Or in 3 where they're exploring Lud. Or the entirety of the Susan Delgado story. Idk, maybe I'm idealizing the old ones because I read them when I was younger. 1-4 >>>>>>>>>>> 5-7 for me though
No doubt 1-4 were the best of the series with Wizard and Glass being head and shoulders above the rest. I fucking loved every moment of Rolands story of his time in Mejis
Huge fucking book 4 spoiler
and it broke my heart when Susan died
1-4 so good. Wolves was ok,everything after that was pretty bad..with a few good chapters here and there.
Kings presence in the books basically took the place of Flagg,it was poorly executed and ham handed. He did a great job of making no one matter. The attempts to tie everything together had the feel of a twelve year old kid trying to write out his fantasy scenario. The ending was predictable regardless of the author warning,and that warning in my opinion was more a red herring and ultimately a concession that the final books were bad. Drawing attention to the ending didn't work for me.
Has anyone read the comics? Read the first two issues of The Gunslinger Born which were pretty good (no new material yet though) at the end of the 2nd issue was a history of Maerlyn and the wizard's glass and birth of The Crimson King
The comics are pretty fantastic. Jae Lee and Isanove really did a good job of creating that dark, gritty look of Roland's world. I love how the comics give a good filler to some of the stories I wish King had gone more in-depth on, like the Battle of Jericho Hill and the fall of Gilead.
Working my way through the series for a 6th (7th?) time right now. Despite the flaws in the quick-lets-wrap-it-up ending (hello, Matrix), this series stands alone as my all time fave.
I only had one issue of the comic but I agree it's fantastic. So you even like parts 5 and 6? (The actual books) It's been a long time since I read them but I can't remember liking anything about them really.
I liked book 5 fine, it was 6 and 7 that really took a nose dive
I was good with 5, 6 was fairly awful and 7 was ok. Agree with whoever said he just kind of rushed it out to finish it.
I wouldn't trust him to do it well at this point, but I always said if he wanted to redeem the series he'd go back and write a book that filled in between the teenage Roland we read about in book 1 and the grizzled gunslinger he is in the present of book 1. Isn't that what always kept us reading? How did this badass become the way he is? And what all types of badassery must he have perpetrated in his life? Write that book Stephen King. Hell we only get one book before he gets half his fingers bitten off. Show me what young, 10 fingered Roland can do. It's not fucking rocket science. Why invent type 2 vampires and all that stupid shit.
Book 5 was pretty badass (Andy... holy shit, and the Riza's), but book 6 was simply a way to delay publishing 7. There was no climax to it. I felt like I spent three hundred pages simply holding my breath through a long tunnel to get to book 7. It was too short to be a stand-alone IMO. Cut it in half and paste it on the tail-end of 5 and the start of 7.
Of course if he did that, the final book would've been pushing 900-950 pages.
Books 1-3 were great and I though Wolves of the Calla had one of the best battle/fight scenes I've ever read.
I was fine with him writing himself into the story. It was an interesting twist. I was even fine never being told the significance of "19". But babies morphing into spiders and then trying to kill 'White Daddy'? Vampires? Bird people? Why waste our time with all of that weird shit. Just tell the story, writer man.
For the record, I'm fine with the ending/restart. It's kind of poetic. At first, I thought it was a huge gyp, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that that's how he intended it to end from the very beginning.
Ka like a wheel
Currently reading book 6. I feel compelled to finish the series at this point, but wow, what a letdown this book has been so far. Now exiting the thread to avoid spoilers.
Finally forced myself to finish. King really fucked this series up. Books 1-4 were so great. I can't believe the same person wrote 5-7.
He masterfully created a world. He set up the quest so well. And then he gave us no resolution/payoff.
All antagonists were treated as an aside. Oh, the Crimson King, the guy who is basically the biggest villain in the world. Yep, this randomly added mute guy erases him with his drawing powers. Awesome.
And he fucking killed Oy. Why, goddammit. WHY?
McConaughey in talks to star in the adaptation
Conflicting rumors regarding which character he is in talks to play.
He'd be a terrible Roland, but I'd love to see him play Flagg.
Yeah he would be a terrible Roland. Maybe Eddie. Maybe
I'd cast Owen Wilson as Oy.
Sony Pictures and Media Rights Capital may just have found the linchpin for The Dark Tower, the Stephen King novel series set in a world woven with magic and revolving around the gunslinger Roland Deschain. I’m told that Idris Elba has emerged as the frontrunner to play Deschains, and he would square off against Matthew McConaughey, who’s in talks to play the villainous Man In Black. Nikolaj Arcel is directing.
I thought Javier Bardem was pretty much a perfect casting, but Idris Elba is fantastic in everything he does.
I rolled my eyes at the idea of McConaughey playing Roland, but mostly because he would would be a perfect Flagg. Glad it looks like the people involved agree.
I'm fine with Elba playing James Bond because, like you said, he's great in everything he does. But as Roland?
All I can picture is a remake of Blazing Saddles.
Elba as Roland could work, but... it kinda messes up the whole "honky mahfuh" vibe between Detta and Roland.
Would you recommend reading the revised copy of The Gunslinger or trying to find a copy of the original version for someone new to the series?
I'm pretty sure I've only read the revised version. I don't think I knew there was an older version when I read the series.
Reading the Wikipedia page it says he added some material and changed some of the narrative to make it more linear/accessible while fixing some continuity issues
After a little googling I would read the revised version first as it was changed to help consistency with the series when he decided to turn it into a series as opposed to a stand alone RegimentML
Cool. I'm looking to start diving into King's work as he is one of the major authors that I've never really read. I bought the Different Seasons anthology that has some of his well known novellas, and I knew that this series was pretty well received.
I'm a big King fanboy. He isn't without his faults but I generally love his stuff. This series is a good overview of King's work in general. When it's good it's fantastic, but it definitely has some points he struggles through. Book 4 Wizard and Glass is one of my all time favorites. The Gunslinger was my first King novel ever.
It will most likely be mine as well. At least, the first full novel.
If you are going into the series clean, then read the revised version.
Unfortunately for those of us who read the series as it was released, the revised Gunslinger came out before all the books were finished, and what King chose to change/revise for continuity issues somewhat spoiled how he would end the series. But, if you are going in fresh, you won't have the original to compare, and the revised does 'fit' better into the whole.
Honestly, I'd recommend you read some of King's excellent novels which tangentially tie into The Dark Tower before you tackle his magnum opus. It will make it more enjoyable. Suggestions (in order of connection): The Talisman/Black House (fantastic), The Eyes of the Dragon (fucking love this book), The Stand, Insomnia (not his best book, but a lot of ties to Dark Tower), and It (ties are loose, but they are there)
I didn't think about that but I agree with TheGrifter, King ties in so many of his other novels that you'll miss a lot of the references. I haven't read The Talisman or Eye of the Dragon yet, but definitely The Stand and one he didn't mention is 'Salem's Lot
I know from our interactions on this forum we enjoy similar novels. Pick up Talisman and Eye of the Dragon ASAP.
Wait, you've read Black House, but not Talisman? Black House is the sequel, and it ties into Dark Tower more than any other book in King's bibliography.
No haven't read Black House either. Currently working my way through Erikson's Malazan series, then I'm going to pick up some more King.
Eyes of the Dragon has Flagg as the villain. It's the first King book I ever read, and I've probably done a reread a dozen times. It actually takes place in Delain which is located in In-World.
Talisman doesn't directly tie into Dark Tower as much, but you can 'feel' the connection. It's also one hell of a fun book to read.
Black House ties in so directly it might as well be in the Dark Tower series. Also one fun book to read.
The protagonists in all the books above are some of King's best, IMO.
Awesome I'll do those next. Flagg is such a great villain. Can't wait.
So many books to read is such a great problem.
I'm actually currently looking for something new. Not to derail this thread, but are you enjoying the Malazan books?
I'm reading them too. They're awesome. I'm just starting to get into the meat of the story (through book 3).
That last line is so accurate.
Fuck yes. They're amazing. First one is called Gardens of the Moon and it's a little difficult to get in to because Erikson drops you right in the middle of the world and conflict and expects you to pick it up as you go. Also the first book is the weakest. Gets soooo much better from there. There is a pretty active thread on here with everything in spoiler tags so you're good to hop on in.
The fuck? They're turning a barely mentioned character from the final book into the female lead?
Abbey Lee In Talks To Play Tirana In ‘The Dark Tower’
UPDATE: Readers are questioning the name of the character that Lee plays. That’s what I heard they were calling this major character, and for die hard fans, I can tell you a few character qualities: she’s sexy and dangerous, she has fake human skin and cold snake-like eyes. She doesn’t come in until the seventh volume, apparently, but she’s going to be starring in the first film.
'Bastille Day' Trailer: Idris Elba, Richard Madden Fight To Take Down A Conspiracy
EXCLUSIVE: More casting on Sony and Media Rights Capital’s eagerly awaited adaptation of Stephen King’s The Dark Tower, which Nikolaj Arcel will direct. Abbey Lee, who is coming off Mad Max: Fury Road and who stars in Gods of Egypt, is negotiating to star in the female lead role of Tirana. She will star opposite Idris Elba, who’ll play good guy gunslinger Roland Deschain, and Matthew McConaughey, who’ll play the villainous Man in Black.
Sony will distribute what is planned to be the first in a series of Dark Tower movies. A complementary TV series is also being developed by MRC. Producing are Weed Road’s Akiva Goldsman and Imagine Entertainment’s Brian Grazer, Ron Howard and Erica Huggins. King is also a producer. That quartet has been involved in this franchise since the beginning, and MRC kept it going after Universal and then Warner Bros developed it and then dropped out. Pinkner is an exec producer.
First installment of The Dark Tower focuses on the first book in the series, The Gunslinger, establishing the relationship between Roland and young protege Jake Chambers. The next big role will be the young protege. Lee, who next stars in the Nicolas Winding Refn-directedThe Neon Demon for Gaumont and Amazon Studios, is repped by UTA, Management 360, and United Management.
I posted this in the other thread. This really concerns me. I had to look up who Tirana was when I read this.
Actually in this case I'm all for it. Books 5-7 were so shitty, shake it up a bit. It won't be like the books but overall has a chance to be more satisfying if done right
Nevermind this was a shitty take while I was drunk. I am pissed that this chick is a lead in the first movie, and that Idris Elba is Roland. Why not switch McConnaughey and Elba? As pointed out above, a black guy as Roland is gonna make zero sense when it gets to Detta.
I thought of how to actually fix the series.
-King admits 5-7 sucked and condenses them all into one book. This book still serves as the ending of the series.
-He goes back and writes two books that fill the time gap between teenage/young Roland (last seen in the Susan Delgado days of Wizard and Glass or gone to kill that werewolf if you count that story) and the grizzled veteran we meet at the edge of the desert in Gunslinger. One book focuses on Roland himself and has big roles for Cuthbert and Alain. We finally get the story of the Battle of Jericho Hill, we learn more about this "Good Man" John Farson, hell maybe we even fuck around with a few more pieces of the Wizard's Rainbow. This could easily be the best book of the series -- we have never really seen a full strength Roland. We have the teenager just figuring out what the fuck he's doing, and the old guy that gets two fingers bitten off in short order. Give us Roland in his fucking prime!
-The second book is not Roland-focused; rather, it serves as more of an atmospheric piece to explain how the "world moved on." My idea is to feature the city of Lud, going back in time to its glory days and having a story take place there. It would be cool to incorporate New York somehow and have parallel stories playing out in NYC and Lud. How many people want to read the story where Blaine the Mono was a friendly train that took Lud commuters to work?
-Finally, he could put a cherry on top by going back and writing a complete prequel: the story of Arthur Eld and the first gunslingers. Um, fuck yes please.
Tell me that wouldn't shit all over every Dark Tower story King has produced since W&G. Come on Stephen King, how fucking hard is this? Don't fuck around with all this metafiction, let me write myself into the story and try to tie together every book I ever wrote shit. Give the people the stories you hinted at that kept us turning the pages in the first place.