The Atlanta Hawks thread-If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Gaknight, Apr 8, 2015.

  1. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Talking to an Atlanta transplant buddy today about Trae. When is the last time we had a player that oozes SS potential like him? It's sad looking at fact that we haven't really had a superstar since maybe Nique.

    People loved Horford but he was always the 4th option getting dominated on the boards against bigger guys while putting up 15 and 9 stat lines. Hell I'm more excited about John Collins career trajectory than Horford's.

    I hated Iso Joe and will never give him Superstar status.
     
  2. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
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    Don’t forget Melo.
     
  3. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Rasheed Wallace
     
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  4. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    This is what Amick posted in The Athletic

     
    #2354 Fran Tarkenton, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
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  5. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Can you post the entire article?
     
  6. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    Yea its re: NBA Awards



    Amick’s NBA Awards watch: Making my mind up down the stretch


    By Sam Amick 1h ago[​IMG] 7 [​IMG]
    The NBA’s regular season is too long.

    Eighty-two games is too much for the players’ bodies, for the coaches’ minds, for the fans’ attention span and even for those poor equipment managers who have to keep track of all the swag at every stop. It’s a necessary evil, though, the kind of money-making marathon that won’t be shortened anytime soon so long as the league is cutting TV deals like the one they did back in 2014 (nine years, $24 BILLLL-YON with ESPN and Turner; cue Austin Powers).


    Yet no group is more guilty of late-season fatigue, one could argue, than the fourth estate.

    When it comes to the media members who vote for end-of-season awards, there’s an annual tendency to make up our minds too early. That e-mail from the league comes nine days or so before season’s end, and there’s that temptation to get the ballot in early as we all prepare for the playoffs. Consider this an unsolicited plea to my fellow voters: Keep watching, and wait until the end before hitting ‘send.’ The games at the end matter just as much as all the rest.

    With that in mind, and with more than 20 games remaining for all involved that simply must be factored into all these decisions, I present my view of these awards at the moment.

    MVP
    The mind-made-up meter (one means not at all, 10 means it’s a wrap): 7

    Candidates still under consideration (in order of current ranking): Giannis Antetokounmpo (Milwaukee), James Harden (Houston), Paul George (Oklahoma City)

    Analysis: Can we take a… step-back to discuss the MVP situation?

    (Takes a bow)

    James Harden has been unreal – again. And no matter how you see the debate about the reigning MVP’s ability to draw fouls or pioneer that un-guardable shot, the time has long since come to appreciate his incredible body of work. To that end, consider this context and try – just, try – to imagine a hoops world in which the Houston star’s season doesn’t deserve the Maurice Podoloff trophy.

    He is on pace to become the first player in NBA history to average at least 36 points, seven assists and six rebounds, per Basketball-Reference.com. It’s the scoring (36.3 points per game) that makes this trifecta so untouchable, and the only other player who came anywhere close wasn’t really close at all: Michael Jordan averaged 32.5, eight rebounds and eight assists in the 1988-89 season.

    The scoring alone puts Harden in rarified air, as his current pace is the second highest in the past FIFTY-FIVE YEARS. Jordan averaged 37.1 points in the 1986-87 campaign, and Wilt Chamberlain averaged 36.9 points in 1963-64.

    Yet the thing about this debate that makes it so tricky, you see, is that Harden is hardly the only one playing at a historic level. What’s more the discussion about team success will – as always – factor in. And while Harden deserves ample credit for helping Houston (36-25, fifth in the West) stay afloat amidst so much roster turmoil this season, Giannis Antetokounmpo is my current leader, in large part, because of this collective element.

    As regular season showings go, these Milwaukee Bucks (a league-best 47-14) have been special so far. Beyond their record, we’re still sleeping on the fact that there’s such a sizable gap in net rating between them and the second-place Warriors (9.3 to 6.5). They are the only team in the league to be top five in both offensive rating (third) and defensive rating (first). Giannis, meanwhile, is not only a one-of-a-kind offensive force but a legitimate Defensive Player of the Year candidate.

    His nightly role as the epicenter of everything on both ends means his efforts don’t require much dissection to understand. The Bucks are virtually unstoppable with him on the floor (net rating of 12.3) and plummet to just 4.5 with him on the bench. And when it comes to his individual production in that Mike Budenholzer system that has unlocked the Greek Freak like never before, he’s on track to become just the second player ever to average at least 27 points, 12 rebounds, and six assists (joining Oscar Robertson in 1961-62). By George, we’re seeing a trend here.

    The spirit of the award is helping your team win when you’re out there, and Paul & Co. have these Thunder (38-22) looking like Western Conference contenders again. He leads the league in ESPN’s Real Plus-Minus stat(7.85, with Harden second at 7.44).

    The Thunder are a plus-9.7 with George on the floor and a minus-10.8 when he’s off – that’s a swing of 20.5 points that dwarfs Giannis (9.7). The Rockets, shockingly, have a higher net rating with Harden on the bench (3.1) than with him on the floor (2.7).

    He’s making his own history here, too: George is on track to join Jordan (1988-89) as the only players to average at least 28 points, eight rebounds, four assists and two steals. As for the defensive side, George is widely seen as the DPOY frontrunner for this Thunder squad that has the league’s third-best defensive rating. In this wing-heavy era of superstars, George’s ability to guard the best in the business every time out is no small feat.

    Defensive Player of the Year
    Mind-made-up meter: 7

    Candidates still under consideration: George, Rudy Gobert (Utah), Giannis

    Analysis: Year in and year out, this award is the toughest to analyze. For all the advancements in analytics that make it easier to quantify impact on the offensive end of the floor, the defensive metrics remain mostly flawed. Take ESPN’s Defensive Real Plus-Minus number, for example, a stat that is widely cited as reliable yet inspires all sorts of questions when you really look at it.

    The reigning Defensive Player of the Year, Gobert, leads all comers with a No. 1 mark of 4.59 (Miami’s Hassan Whiteside is second at 4.19). But how could George, whose defensive activity and versatility have not only fueled the Thunder’s defense but sparked its offense, be 15thin that ranking? And how could Giannis, whose impact on the Bucks’ league-leading defense is unmistakable, be 16th?

    If healthy, Gobert could win it every year. His one-of-a-kind ability to deter everything that comes even remotely close to the rim, and to force offenses to function so much farther out because of his incredible presence, is unparalleled. And while the Jazz started slow this season, they’re back to doing what they do best (fourth in defensive rating).

    “Defensively, we didn’t have the same edge that we had,” Gobert told The Athletic recently about the early season struggles that included a 9-12 record and a defensive rating ranking of 13th. “Our competitiveness, and our edge, defensively, is what makes us who we are. It’s our identity.

    “We kind of came back at the start of the season thinking that everyone expects us (to be as good as last season), and that’s kind of human nature. We thought we were going to be the same team, but we’re not doing the same dirty work that we did before. We’re not the Warriors. We don’t have four guys who can score 20 a night. We’ve got to grind every night. That’s our identity.”

    And therein lies the reason I’m leaning toward George at the moment.

    From beginning to end, he has rewritten the Thunder’s defensive script in a way that few saw coming. Lest anyone forget, Oklahoma City struggled mightily on the defensive end last season without Andre Roberson (15thin defensive rating) and we all assumed that would happen again this time around when he remained sidelined. Instead, with George leading the league in steals(2.3) and loose balls recovered(2.2) while proving capable of switching onto almost anyone who comes his way, the Thunder are currently third.

    George and I spoke about this in mid-December, back when it was becoming apparent that these assumptions about the Roberson-less Thunder couldn’t have been more wrong.

    “This has always been interesting to me, because me being in the Defensive Player of the Year discussion..” George began before pausing.

    The unspoken takeaway that he didn’t just come out and say, it seemed, was that anyone who had tracked his entire career would have known he was capable of this.

    “I led one of the best defenses in basketball, in basketball history, in Indiana,” he continued. “And I felt that was when I was at my best defensively, in my prime defensively, and I didn’t win the award. So…

    “With that being said, that’s what I bring to the game: playing defense, loving playing defense, knowing how to manipulate the offense, knowing how to be in position, that’s just what I bring to the team.”

    Coach of the Year
    Mind-made-up meter: 3

    Candidates still under consideration: Mike Budenholzer (Milwaukee), Mike Malone (Denver), Dave Joerger (Sacramento), Nate McMillan (Indiana)

    Analysis: A team’s year-over-year improvement has always been a decent way to gauge a coach’s impact on his team. Barring the arrival or departure of a superstar or major roster overhaul, it’s an easy gauge on whether a group is going backwards or forwards. Thus far, only Budenholzer and Joerger have led their respective teams to better records than last season.

    So here’s where we stand on that front with the coaches who I think should be in this mix…

    Budenholzer’s Bucks: 44-38 last season under Jason Kidd to a league-best 47-14

    Joerger’s Kings: 27-55 last season to 31-30

    Malone’s Nuggets: From 46-36 last season (missing the playoffs) to 42-18 (second in the West)

    McMillan’s Pacers: 48-34 last season to 40-22 (Indiana has gone 14-11 without Victor Oladipo, whose right knee injury suffered in late January ended his season)

    This is hardly the only factor to weigh here, but it’s a good start. Once this part gets crystallized at the end, all the other components come into play.

    Rookie of the Year
    Mind-made-up meter: 9

    Candidates still under consideration: Luka Doncic (Dallas), Trae Young (Atlanta)

    Analysis: Yes, this race is unofficially over. Doncic (20.9, 7.2 rebounds, 5.7 assists) has been everything the Mavs hoped for, and now he’s on track to join Robertson as the only other rookie to reach the 20-7-5 marks.But again, there is still roughly a quarter of the schedule left to play and Young – who had 36 points, 10 assists, and eight rebounds in a win against Minnesota on Wednesday – has been on a major upswing for quite some time now after his rough early start. At this rate, he’s set to join Robertson, Magic Johnson, Damon Stoudamire, Allen Iverson and Isiaah Thomas as the only rookies to average 17 points and seven assists.

    Consider these lines from Dec. 1 on

    Young: 20.8 points (42.7% overall, 38.7 from three-point range), 8.2 assists, four rebounds, 3.7 turnovers

    Doncic: 23.1 points (43.1%, 32.8%), 6.7 assists, 8.6 rebounds, 3.3 turnovers

    The gap between them has been shrinking, in other words, even if it’s far too big for Young to bridge all the way. If nothing else, the Hawks rookie looking more and more like a legitimate franchise cornerstone means the optics on that controversial Doncic-Young draft day trade look far better these days. To review, the Hawks sent the third pick to Dallas (Doncic) in exchange for the No. 5 (Young) and a 2019 first-rounder (top-five protected).

    Yet for Atlanta’s purposes, Young’s progression has been positive enough to inspire a rethinking about this coming summer in which they’ll have approximately $41 million in salary cap space. According to a source with knowledge of their thinking, the Hawks are so bullish on the development of Young, fellow rookie Kevin Huerter and second-year big man John Collins that they want to explore even the biggest and boldest of offseason plans.

    Translation: They’re planning to pursue meetings with the best-of-the-best in free agency when July 1 rolls around. It’s a half-court shot of sorts, to be sure, but they’d love nothing more than to fire that pitch to everyone from Kevin Durant on down. Talk about the young core and where they believe they’re heading under coach Lloyd Pierce, the arena that received $192.5 million in renovations that have drawn rave reviews, and the fancy new practice facility too. Even if (insert free agent’s name here) doesn’t come, it’s the kind of courting that sends a league-wide message that your program should be taken seriously.

    Sixth Man
    Mind-made-up meter: 7

    Candidates still under consideration: Domantas Sabonis (Indiana), Spencer Dinwiddie (Brooklyn), Montrezl Harrell (Clippers), Lou Williams (Clippers)

    Analysis: It’s time for a market correction when it comes to NBA sixth men. This role is too valuable on the floor to be so undervalued when it comes to the league’s economics, and the stigma that Manu Ginobili, Lamar Odom and others tried so hard to eliminate mostly remains – largely for that reason, one can safely presume.

    Consider the salaries of the aforementioned sixth men…

    Sabonis ($2.6 million this season on his rookie deal), Dinwiddie ($1.6 million, though his three-year, $34 million extension starts next season), Williams ($8 million), and Harrell ($6 million). To put it another way, the aggregate earnings of those four players ($18.2 million) still falls well short of Memphis’ Chandler Parsons and his cautionary tale contract ($24.1 million).

    But I digress.

    The combination of Sabonis’ individual efforts (14.3 points, 9.3 rebounds, 2.7 assists) and the impact on the Pacers as a whole (third in the East at 40-22) put him in the lead here, but we’ll be watching closely down the stretch. Dinwiddie (17.2 points, five assists), Harrell (16.4 points, 6.7 rebounds, 1.4 blocks), and Williams (19.9 points, 5.4 assists; both league highs for sixth men) all have very strong cases.

    Most Improved Player
    Mind-made-up meter: 9

    Candidates still under consideration: Pascal Siakam (Toronto), De’Aaron Fox (Sacramento)

    Analysis: Major improvement from one season to the next is impressive enough, but even moreso when it has a profound impact on entire group. That’s the case for both Siakam and Fox, but it would take an All-Star type run at the end here from the Kings star to pull off this late MIP upset.

    A quick look at the massive uptick in their production and efficiency.

    Siakam: Scoring (7.3 points per game to 16.3), rebounds (4.5 to seven), field-goal percentage (50.8 to 55.2 with nearly twice as many shots), three-point percentage (22 to 36.9 on 2.4 attempts per).

    Fox: Scoring (11.6 to 17.3), assists (4.4 to 7.2), rebounds (2.8 to 3.7), steals (one to 1.7), field-goal percentage (41.2 to 45.7), three-point percentage (30.7 to 36.9).
     
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  7. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    That’s a good series of tweets on Trae’s passing. I fucking love this guy. My posting on him has been sincere from the beginning. You could tell when he was struggling(if you actually watched the games and didn’t look at box scores) that we had a future superstar on our hands.

    And no I wouldn’t trade him for Luka straight up right now if offered. So that 1st rd pick is just a bonus.
     
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  8. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    Trying to waste our time with KD, Kyrie, etc seems silly. Find those 2nd tier guys like Middleton or offer a RFA more than his current team can stomach
     
  9. Nandor the Relentless

    Nandor the Relentless Former Leader of Al Quolanudar
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    WCS averages just 0.8 blocks per 36 minutes. Maybe he's good at drawing charges or contesting shots at the rim but he surprisingly has never really been a shot blocker in the NBA
     
    #2359 Nandor the Relentless, Feb 28, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  10. dahldennsull

    dahldennsull Living in the best state
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    stay the hell away from Kyrie. He is a disaster who thinks he is a leader but is atrocious in that aspect. Just because he hit a big shot or two on a Lebron championship team, he now thinks he is this wise vet at 26 and can boss people around through the media. Has single handedly ruined the Celtics.

    will have 2 lottery picks this year, 1 of them top 5, potentially 2 top 10. Continue to build through the draft.
     
  11. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    If we can get Reddish I’d be interested in Bol Bol at 9. He’s a unicorn that would go top 2, but foot issues for a big guy and being rail thin is going to hurt his stock.
     
  12. dahldennsull

    dahldennsull Living in the best state
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    this is the biggest reason I wouldn't want to touch that. He's already dealing with it, think NBA wear and tear and getting older is going to help?
     
  13. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Yeah it would be a MAJOR RISK but he is possibly the most talented guy in the draft. Easily top 2.
     
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  14. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    this game is something else
     
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  15. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    Trae has 49-16-8 in the 4th OT

    no Collins tonight
     
  16. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Feel bad for Vince
     
  17. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    He basically had that after 1OT but died carrying us in the 4th
     
  18. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Trae balls out and we lose

    Perfect
     
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  19. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    now need another loss to the Bulls and make things interesting for 4th best lottery odds
     
  20. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Can Collins “flu” extend through the weekend?
     
  21. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    Posted in the wrong thread
     
  22. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    The mavs going 1-9 in their last 10 pisses me off
     
  23. Room 15

    Room 15 Mi equipo esta Los Tigres
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    It’s disgusting
     
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  24. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Well when they end up getting 6th in the lottery and we get the #5 and #6 pick it will be awesome. We now have a reason to make sure we lose every game.
     
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  25. It'sAlwaysSunnyInAthens

    It'sAlwaysSunnyInAthens Well-Known Member
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    Praying we get into top 3 for reddish.
     
  26. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    My dream scenario is we get lucky and get the 3rd pick and Dal pick ends up 6th.
     
  27. allothersnsused

    allothersnsused Wow that’s crazy
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    It's bullshit that if Dallas can sneak into the top 5, the Trae Young trade will probably ultimately be judged not by either player but by Dallas' ability to tank this year.
     
  28. ugafish

    ugafish Not a new member
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    We have had reason to lose every game all year long. We are just too good to do it
     
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  29. SuperCam

    SuperCam Well-Known Member
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    It's not looking like such a lock that the Hawks are going to end up with the Mavs pick anymore.

    Wish the Hawks had just kept Luka, and drafted Morant with their pick this year.
     
  30. Pharm

    Pharm Right Handed
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    Protected picks are stupid. And so is a lottery system in general.
     
  31. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Nope. Happy with Trae and have full faith inn schlenk to continue dominating the draft.
     
  32. Pile Driving Miss Daisy

    Pile Driving Miss Daisy It angries up the blood
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    I feel like the Mavs are intentionally tanking right now and Silver needs to come down on them.
     
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  33. Nandor the Relentless

    Nandor the Relentless Former Leader of Al Quolanudar
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    I wish the NBA would just go to a completely random draw for every first round pick for the non-playoff teams. Would completely eliminate the incentive for the type of teams that currently tank to keep on tanking. If they finish last or first team out of the playoffs they still have the same chance at the #1 pick.
     
  34. ugafish

    ugafish Not a new member
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    Need to sit trae with an “injury”. Trade is a waste if we don’t get this pick.
     
  35. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    The advanced stats are really liking Huerter right now. That was a really good pick
     
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  36. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    I was skeptical in drafting a skinny, boyish looking ginger, but I’ll stan Red Klay almost as hard as Trae and John now.
     
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  37. Nandor the Relentless

    Nandor the Relentless Former Leader of Al Quolanudar
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    Which ones?

    His offensive rating is 106, defensive rating is 116, PER is 10.2. Those not looking good to me.
     
  38. SummerOfGeorge

    SummerOfGeorge Friend of the Program
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    Lottery balls hit #1 for Hawks and #6 for Dallas on May 14th - greatest day in Hawks history?
     
  39. Pharm

    Pharm Right Handed
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    Game 6 win vs the celtics was one of the most fun times i have had at a sporting event.
     
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  40. Pile Driving Miss Daisy

    Pile Driving Miss Daisy It angries up the blood
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    I'm an idiot with the trades we made and the lottery, Dallas's pick isn't protected if they just finish with at least the 5th worst record, it's actually whatever spot they get in the lottery?
     
  41. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    If Dallas ends up with a top 5 pick they keep it. Sucks that Luka is so bad he made a potential playoff team turn into a shitty team.
     
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  42. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    fuck New Orleans
     
  43. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Look at the end of our schedule. We about to take a ton of L's.
     
  44. ugafish

    ugafish Not a new member
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    3-7 in our final 10 guarantees the 5 pick even if Dallas loses out in their final 12. Not sure what 4-6 would do if the Mavs somehow go 0-12 to finish.
     
  45. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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    Top 5 lottery odds
     
  46. ugafish

    ugafish Not a new member
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    Does this mean this pick isnt determined by final record but rather the lottery? Thats so Fing stupid
     
  47. Room 15

    Room 15 Mi equipo esta Los Tigres
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  48. Gaknight

    Gaknight Trae Young’s #1 fan, LaMelo Stan
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  49. Room 15

    Room 15 Mi equipo esta Los Tigres
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