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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Truman, May 8, 2015.
On the Russilo pod right after the trade
That’s Skip Bayless level insane.
Lonzo might end up better than he has looked so far, but I don’t expect him to be good next year
I think Bill is overrating Zion's impact as much or more than the pieces they got back when it comes to the Pelicans in the playoffs thing. I forget the specifics, but on a pod a couple months back (before the lottery) he was talking about some online beef he had with someone because he thinks Zion is First Team All-NBA within 2-3 years, or something along those lines.
I agree it mostly has to do with his thoughts on Zion
Yeah, he’s higher on Zion than anybody I can remember. Puts him in with the likes of Tim Duncan as a guaranteed future All-NBA guy before the draft. Which, ok, I’m no scout so I won’t fight until we see what happens.
Even if you think that, there isn’t a single good shooter in their starting lineup.
if Zion doesn't get some semblance of a shot his ceiling is a more athletic Draymond, and that's assuming he learns to play defense at that level. hopefully doesn't fall prey to the westbrook big play hunting on that end.
them saying zion is the biggest star coming out since Lebron was insane to me.
I also barely watch college so I could be way wrong
I think they are hyping it a bit too much especially when Durant and Davis to me were better players coming out of college and have played it in their careers to this point.
I think he is a freak and is unique player and could be the best since Davis though. I think he could be a better version of Blake Griffin.
Zion is absolutely the biggest star coming out since LeBron. You can argue whether or not he's the best player, but 2019 Zion is closer to 2003 LeBron than anyone else is to 2019 Zion.
how do you even judge this though, are we just going off media coverage?
there's been equally high ceiling can't miss prospects to Zion from a basketball standpoint
as a professional and highly esteemed (while also completely objective) scout myself, you are 100% correct
Again, not arguing from a basketball standpoint. I'd take Kevin Durant over Zion if given the choice.
But from a hype standpoint, yeah, no one post-LeBron touches Zion. Look at Duke's TV ratings this year compared to the rest of the sport or pre-Zion Duke games.
Do you not remember who Oden was being compared to?
I think what we know about Zion to date suggests he has the work ethic to develop a jump shot. This isn’t a supreme athlete who has questionable desire or work ethic, and I think that factors into Bill being so effusive in his praise.
zion is fat and the unhealthy cuisine of new orleans will only make him fatter
There’s a lot of revisionist stuff when it comes to Durant as a prospect. He had a great year at Texas (can’t remember how his season ended, can anybody refresh my memory?) but people talk about him now as though he was THE can’t miss prospect and at the time there wasn’t a ton of pushback on Oden going number one over him
thats because people, especially post title game, thought Oden was Patrick Ewing at worse
What rookie had ever made meaningful contributions to a LeBron title? It is extremely unlikely that anyone drafted in the 20s 6-years from now is going to play any role in James’ and Davis’ championship aspirations.
You could make the argument that retaining some of those picks leaves the Lakers in a better position post-LeBron, but what about the last year makes you think Davis wants to wait around for 202X draftees?
Regardless of what happens going forward, they have two top 5-10 players to show for it. If they don’t get it done they don’t get it done, but I’d make the bet on LeBron James and Anthony Davis over some nebulous collection of future prospects 10 times out of 10.
“We could have Anthony Davis right now”
“But we could have 4 John Smiths at spots 10-16 half a decade from now!”
They were on track to make the playoffs before LeBron went down. The primary goal of last summer wasn’t to acquire long-term pieces to pair w/ LeBron but maintain cap flexibility once it became apparent they wouldn’t sign George. Mission accomplished. The fact that the supporting cast wasn’t good enough to win games without James was an added bonus that increased the value of this year’s pick and put them in the driver’s seat for Davis.
There is plenty to criticize within the Laker’s FO but this is over-the-top hyperbole. They have a championship 10 years ago and moving forward they have two of the most coveted players in the League. They’ve stumbled but they’re doing fine. Their situation doesn’t begin to compare to real examples of mismanagement like the Knicks, Wizards, Suns, Kings, etc...
Yeah once Oden dominated Noah and Horford with one hand that discussion was mostly over
I still remember, maybe wrongly, that people thought Durant was a can't miss all-star tier talent. People made comps to Hakeem/Jordan type draft.
I still remember a quote from the blazers gm at the time where he said “Durant will win scoring championships, Oden will win nba championships.”
There were definitely some folks that thought Durant was destined to be a good numbers on bad team type. Someone, and I don't remember who, was calling him the next Glenn Robinson in the lead up to the draft.
The only knock I can remember on Durant was his bench press number at the combine. Which, come on.
It's hard to remember a time when someone being his body type at his height was a red flag and not an enormous positive
You just admitted you don't watch college basketball....
Durant was awesome his one year in college. I dont think we have seen a better freshman since.
Oden was being compared to David Robinson and Bill Russell
Michael Beasley was insane in college
I thought him and Bill Walker were going to win 7 straight titles.
so is he an unprecedented prospect since Lebron or just most hyped?
neither one seems to stand up to even the mildest scrutiny
(I did watch some Duke games this year but college basketball is largely awful)
As long as you watch the tournament you'll have all the ammo you need to drop scorching hot takes in the lead up to the draft
Ja is my favorite player in the draft because I watched him play 1 tournament game
I think he is without question the most hyped prospect since Lebron. Oden is the only one that I think could even be discussed. Your first question is fair, I think he might be the most "can't miss" prospect since Lebron. But I also think he has less upside than Anthony Davis did.
Bill Walton’s health
I can't name a prospect except Zion and I only know him because I lived where he went to HS.
I know for a fact DeAndre Hunter won't be the best pro from Virginia in this draft
Health is my biggest issue with Zion. Well, and shooting. It is going to be extremely hard on his knees if he plays at his current weight much longer. Maybe he can handle it, but that would worry me.
He's slimmer now, but LeBron's durability during his bulkier days was one of the more incredible aspects of his incredible career. Just an absolute freak to put that many miles on a body that size and not break down. Maybe Zion is similar, but I wouldn't be on it... that's just so rare.
In what way have the Lakers been managed better than the Knicks, Wizards, Suns or Kings over the last 7 years? They started from way ahead of those teams, and won 45, 27, 21, 17, 26, 35 and 37 games during that stretch (kicking off with the Nash/Howard disaster).
The other stuff is absurd to me, but no one wants to read my book about.
Don’t forget YouTube clips as well, they convinced BS that Luka was the second coming of Jesus
What scrutiny did you put up to my claim of Zion being the most hyped post LeBron? Are you imagining it?
my larger point is I don't really care how hyped someone is but people kind of vacillate between this squishy hype discussion and actually how good of a prospect he is
I just don't know what puts him on a tier above Durant/Oden/Davis/Blake type prospects
Come fucking on. The Knicks have exactly one playoff series win since the 1999 season and have spent the vast majority of the last 20 years in cap hell overpaying worthless dogshit. The Kings haven’t made the postseason in almost 15 years and wouldn't even be located in Sacramento anymore if not for the commissioner. Phoenix has squandered everything good that has ever happened to it. Washington is the epitome of treadmill disasterism and has paid out the worst contracts in the league bar none for the better part of a decade.
But yeah, let’s ignore all that and focus on the Lakers rebuilding record post-Kobe. GTFO. I hate the Lakers more than any team in the league, but the assertion that they’re the worst run franchise in the NBA is so fucking ridiculous it can only be explained by hot take nonsense.
Again, look at TV ratings for Zion's Duke games compared to the rest of the sport and compared to previous Duke games. This is quantifiable shit.
i think the west will be similar to last year where for 80% of the year there's about 14 good teams. GS will be worse and might not make it (and might tank and not bring klay back at all). rockets with their turmoil + age + harden's usage=injury might be worse. same with portland, who wouldn't have nurkic for a good portion of the year.
i could see the lakers finishing first in the conference and 10th, too, considering davis is injury-prone and i just assume lebron will miss games.
Zions hype as a prospect again? TMB is a flat circle
Man I don’t remember that at all. Everyone I followed at the time and people I talk basketball with were all convinced Durant should be the pick. He was AMAZING at Texas. It’s probably the only thing I’ve agreed with Bill Simmons on in the past 10 years
Yeah he keeps saying he has no holes (or flaws, can’t remember the exact wording) in his game. There’s a very obvious hole in his game that will cap his ceiling if he doesn’t improve it.
It’s the same hole that Ben Simmons has and hasn’t come close to fixing. And strangely enough this time last year Bill was saying Ben Simmons didn’t need to learn to shoot.