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Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by TheChatch, Apr 8, 2015.
Probably the greatest achievement any of us assholes can accomplish
Libs, this is an example of what you’re begging for with Universal Healthcare
The nice thing about the VA is that you show up, talk to the doc, and your medications show up at your house.
I’ll fully admit that a lot of VA hospitals aren’t the most aesthetically pleasing, but that shouldn’t be an issue.
The bashing of the motivations of the VA staff in this thread on the premise of financial incentives is wild.
For fuck sakes, the VA is an incubator for new and advanced technologies.
How many times have you been to the VA, R2?
I wanted to get one of those in
Its not about aestethics. It's about quality of care. Its not some huge mystery that VA wait times are longer than civilian or regular military providers. Also, many times they don't have the capabilities of the other facilities so patients are referred elsewhere. These are the major issues that led to the VCIA that was passed in 2017 through bipartisan support. The VA system itself can't completely provide for all of the needs of its patients which is why patients can seek healthcare elsewhere in the healthcare market. Better care at a much, much lower cost than simply boosting the operational effectiveness of VA facilities.
Those financial incentives aren't a myth. Job seekers typically look for positions at private or military hospitals before the VA because they are simply better jobs. Not all, but alot of people that work at VA facilities can't get those better jobs and have no incentive or capability to improve. Its an inconvenient truth.
The patients from the VA are the basis of the ORD, not the VA system itself, to be an incubator for new and advanced technologies. NO ONE is arguing against the ORD because they do an incredible amount of good. Yes, the ORD falls under the VA but its by and large a multi-departmental organization that has nothing to do with the day to day operations or overall capabilities of the VA health system.
Please provide cite for:
Wait time data (I’ve seen your assertion disproved)
External facilities providing better outcomes (good luck)
External facilities providing lower cost (false assertion)
VA facilities lacking capabilities
Reasons for VA Choice (other than the aforementioned 2014 scandal)
If only there was some sort of study or research that would look into the issue....
The rest of his post is in accurate too. There is so much negative propaganda about the VA out there it’s insane.
Also the 2014 Phoenix VA scheduling scandal was perpetuated exclusively by individuals seeking financial incentices.
Lol at “we need financial incentives at the VA”
You clowns need to start being aware of who is publishing what you’re reading and what their financial incentives are.
I'm not going to be able to cite everything about specific discussions with my wife and other military doctors that I've discussed or heard with my wife. It boils down to this.
The VA healthcare system is improving because of higher administrative accountability and a lower demand of their services due to more options for care since the VCIA was enacted. It's cheaper and more effective to outsource shortcomings than it is to overhaul existing facilities. I never said anything about outcomes, simply access.
Its trickling down to Tricare as well. Walter Reed is incredibly busy, so I was given the option to convert my family's (outside of my wife of course) Tricare Prime to the Johns Hopkins system. Given where I live, that has been MUCH better than trying to get everything done at Walter Reed.
For the millionth time, I'm not entirely against a single payer since Tricare is damn good. Single provider? Not a fucking chance and that is definitely because of a lot of the issues in the VA healthcare system. Not propaganda. Life experience and the experience of those that deal with it every single day.
Your assertions are wrong. In this thread, a link was posted comparing civilian and VA facilities and proved no advantage for civilian facilities
Furthermore VA Choice does not reduce costs.
I’d love to you to validate either of those claims other than through ‘conversations with your wife’ and broad assumptions.
I’ve read the reports on this. You’re fully incorrect.
Some VA clinics are better than others...obviously. The RAND link references that. I'm not talking about the best VA clinics, I'm talking about the system as a whole. From the same link from RAND:
"The study did not examine issues related to accessing care in the VA health system, such as whether enrollees gain access to care in a timely manner."
Guys, singlehandedly saving an island of several million people is hard work, cut him some slack
As far as costs go, that's sticky. There is a cost-benefit to supplying certain capabilities such as specialists and/or pieces of equipment versus outsourcing that to other facilities that have those in place. Doctor/patient ratios come into play also. X amount of patients warrant an additional doctor. The labor market dictates if filling those positions is possible or cost effective. I don't know where those lines is on a case by case, facility by facility basis.
There are studies out there on wait time. If you look you’ll find that it’s comparable to civilian hospitals across the board. Your arguments are wrong and your research is lazy.
Every study I've seen notes improvement in wait time between 2014 and 2017. That is partially if not mostly a result of greater access to care across the market instead of filtering everything through individual VA facilities. Also, by removing a ton of the red tape for referrals, wait times naturally go down.
Since moving to the Johns Hopkins system, my access has grown and my wait times have gone down. Exact same benefit the VA patients are seeing in basically the exact same way.
Options are good. Its not rocket science.
I'm glad that the VA system is improving. We all should be.
Show your studies.
The VA System is working. And the VA Choice system is a method of sending public money to private entities. There are no cost savings. It’s costing tax payers more (approx $450 per visit is the number I recall)
Keep spewing your nonsense hypothesis though.
It's revealing that this thread is seeing its first substantive policy debate in years, and not a single Trump voter is in sight....
Oh, wait, I forgot about saul
His contribution is “my wife says the org she works for is inadequate. Reports show they’re getting better. Johns Hopkins, one of the best hospital systems in the world, is good”
There are a ton of hospitals in Baltimore. Sure Hopkins is great. How is Saini? Mercy? Bon Secours?
It seems like a common occurrence in these studies is that more information is needed because accurate reporting is still an issue. Its a major bullet point in this GAO report.
I just can't for the life of me see how limiting patients to single clinics is cost effective while providing adequate care to everyone. There are thresholds that have to be crossed to warrant expansion at the individual facility level. If they are not crossed, some outsourcing seems to be the only answer unless someone knows otherwise. The improvements being cited everywhere occur after Veteran's Choice was implemented and then improved upon with the VCIA.
There is also a heavy variance inside the VA system as to overall quality of care. There isn't some blanket solution for all clinics and patients. It has to be done at a smaller level instead of trying to average Topeka and NYC to find an answer for all.
My wife doesn't work for the VA.
The VA is getting better because of reasons I've outlined that I believe to be true.
I don't go to Johns Hopkins. Our primary care is a clinic in the Johns Hopkins network. Big difference. My point is that I get better service by taking my care (workload) from a near capacity provider (Walter Reed) to one that is closer and lower in capacity (my clinic).
The only thing I’ll agree with in this post is that there are variances in healthcare between Topeka and Kansas. But that is because of demographic differences.
The rest of your comments are baseless and inaccurate.
Community Care is a money pit.
“I have no idea what I’m talking about”
Tricare was awesome when I had it. Muh thoughts on it being used as a template for single payer for civilians, is that it would never work. You have a a group of healthy people in their early 20s covering each other. The small number of people that actually make it to retirement and keep Tricare for the rest of their life combined with the free care many elect to receive at the VA lowers costs even more.
I dont see how we could ever do anything like that in our country.
She is literally the gift that keeps on giving. Can you imagine the collective brainpower of the NY residents that voted for her?
I can, and it’s a hell of a lot higher than what you’ll find any Trump district.
I criticize Trump a lot, but he’s done an incredible job of consolidating support in the “people that are really fucking stupid” demographic.
“She told Amazon to fuck off, lost jobs for her constituents...she is way smarter than Trump”
Who needs $25 billion in the local economy? Who needs jobs for our citizens? Fuck capitalism!!
Heck, I miss the days when we used to have a couple of pretend “intellectual” conservatives on here, but even they gave up defending the indefensible, and, well, you’re what’s left. You and a handful of dopes who use words like “libtard” and “snowcuck” unironically. As grown ass men. It’s perfectly fitting, but man is it sad to see.
NYC Libs force Jobs to leave town, while San Fran Libs hand out free heroin needles
But San Francisco created new jobs! The poop patrol certainly adds to their economy!
Great job incel libtards!!
Maybe they will rename this school "Centrist University"
What a fucking idiot
Libs!! Killing babies and saving lives of murders. How ironic !
Remember when the libs were in this thread stating Cohen didn’t lie the second time around in front on Congress? That was fun.
Show me the lie
This is the weirdest post
Hook. Line. Sinker.
Is that an Onion website? Has to be bullshit.
They were wrong...again??
Right wing PACs disguising (poorly for those who have firing synapses) Fox propaganda as local news outlets.
Hey libs...how did this work out for you?
No one is reading your breitbart links
More Breitbart, please.