The Twelve - Justin Cronin (The Passage #2)

Discussion in 'TMB Book Club' started by The Blackfish, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. The Blackfish

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    Starting this book soon, figured I'd go ahead and make a thread for it.
     
  2. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Just noticed the thread icon. Perfect
     
  3. The Blackfish

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    Part I

    so 5 years have passed, Amy is a nun in Kerrville and can make people fall asleep. Wolgast has disappeared, Theo and Maus have died somehow, Peter is a soldier and Alicia is tracking something and thinks she has found it. Interesting
     
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  4. The Blackfish

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    Halfway through part 2... the fuck is this shit?
     
  5. The Blackfish

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    Part II

    well at first I was pissed at all new characters when so much was left to be revealed with Amy, Peter and the rest. But Cronin once again did a great job giving the characters depth and making you care about them.

    So what the fuck is Grey and how did he become this. I'm going to give Cronin the benefit of the doubt because he he has proved to be a very capable writer thus far, but I'm worried I might not be pleased with how many different variations of infected people we have.

    The Zero
    The Twelve
    The Many
    Alicia
    Amy
    Lacey
    Grey

    All are different. Weird.

    Interested to see what happens to Horace, Grey and Lila. The point of that whole divergence seems to be Grey who is The Familiar

    Believe me or not but I knew April had to be significant and my best guess was a relative of Alicia. Was pumped when I was right. Being a descendant of April and Bernard shows even more why she is a badass.

    Was happy Bernard went out the way he did with Tim

    Danny was obviously autistic but ended up being a bamf

    Hope part 3 goes back to Amy, Peter and Alicia
     
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  6. The Blackfish

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    Part III

    Welp so much for going back to the regular characters. Not really sure what the point of this chapter was. Of course Cronin did a good job of making me interested in a new crop of characters, giving a lot of backstory without drawing it out too much. I'm guessing the woman Vorhees saw in the corn field was Lila. Maybe that was the important part of the chapter :idk:
     
  7. Truman

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    Finished The Passage last night. Gonna wait a few days and let it marinate before starting The Twelve.
     
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  8. The Blackfish

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    Not sure how I feel about this book so far. Its very well written and I'm still hooked, but it seems like he was going in one direction in The Passage and then when you start The Twelve you're like, well... um, ok...
     
  9. The Blackfish

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    Part IV
    -Finally back to Peter and Alicia
    -Sara is dead, Hollis has lost it and is now a criminal apparently working with Tifty
    -Martinez is gone leaving his familiar behind. Weird, not quite sure what that means.
    -Alicia is promoted although we had thought she was in trouble. Odd. Now she is going off on her own and Peter is being sent to the oil fields
    -Wolgast wants Amy to seek out Carter. I still don’t get how different people just seem to know things, like what should be done. Also I guess Amy is going through puberty at age 103.
     
  10. The Blackfish

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    Part V
    Holy fuck where to begin. The Twelve are dropping their many and coming together, Zero has made another one, can’t be Amy can it? Damn I don’t even know what to think anymore. Peter and Michael are attacked by men working with Virals. The woman I’m assuming is the same woman that Vorhees saw in the field and I’m still guessing that’s Lila.
    Alicia drinks blood now, how come Amy doesn’t? Seems like shes the only one.
    Greer (will continue to refer to him as Greer, Lucius just doesn’t sound right) is Amy’s familiar. How did that come about? I wish Cronin would start to clear at least a few things up.

    Part VI
    -Sara is alive! Should have known but oh well.
    -I was right about Lila being the woman who stopped Peter and Michael, can only assume I was right that she was the woman in the field as well.
    -Thought Grey was going to be the Director, but now thinking about it that doesn’t really seem like a job for him. I guess Horace drank Grey’s blood after he knocked him over the head with the rock. I see after 100 years Lila still thinks she is living with David in their house. Bat. Shit. Crazy.
    -Excited to see what Sara does with the Insurgency and if Alicia shows up because I can only assume that is where she is headed. :popcorn:
     
  11. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    I will be joining you tomorrow night or Monday
     
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  12. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    I could have done without the prologue. I just watned to get to the new shit. I didnt need the reshash of The Passage, but If I had read it 2 years ago, it would have been nice.

    Wonder how Theo and Maus croaked. Alicia - I think that something she found is Martinez.

    On to part two. Gonna be doing the book on tape route for the drive home tomorrow. Never done it before. Hopefully its easy to follow and I can knock out a big chunk on this 51/2 hour drive
     
  13. The Blackfish

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    Just FYI part 2 and 3 are different but it all ties in well so just go with it
     
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  14. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey is this thing on?
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    This discussion doesn't seem at all promising. Going to jump in anyway…
     
  15. The Blackfish

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    Part VII – Part XI
    ­-Holy fuck I was skeptical about the book in the beginning but I shouldn’t have been. Amazing.
    -I’m still confused about what all happened with Amy. She started having abdominal pains, which almost killed her by the time she reached Carter. What went on with her and Carter was very vague imo and afterwards she was a full grown woman? Then she ends up turning into a full fledged viral? I was upset when that happened although I kinda thought it would after what The Zero said about making their sister the twelfth.
    -Liked how everything from the field tied in. Hated Tifty during the Field chapter, but came around more during this one.
    -I figured Sara would be reunited with her daughter while attending to Lila. Glad Lila finally snapped out of her funk and came to her senses. She wasted no time in getting shit done.
    -Horace kind of surprised me at how stupid he was. I guess he just figured that he had the twelve on his side and was invincible, although Amy gave him a bunch of hints
    -Alicia took her torture like a champ, although it clearly fucked with her head some. Wonder what is going to become of her since she is still transforming somehow.
    -The battle scene in the stadium was awesome. Glad Wolgast went out a champ. The Twelve (well besides Amy I guess, not sure where she is but I doubt she is dead) are gone and so is Lila, Lawrence and Guilder.
    -Book still isn’t over but at this point it seems like every “bad guy” besides The Zero is dead. I guess the next book will be all about him.
     
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  16. Iron Mickey

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    I assume from your continuing that I'm safe to read?
     
  17. The Blackfish

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    Yep its really good too
     
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  18. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey is this thing on?
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    What was your handle previously?
     
  19. Dwight Schrute

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    I am now on Part II.

    Really do not like how he made the review of the first story begin in Bible format. There's enough religious metaphors in this story for my liking, don't make it blatant. :athiestsmug:
     
  20. The Blackfish

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  21. Iron Mickey

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    Ahh, word. :respek:
     
  22. Iron Mickey

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    Part I
    I really like Alicia's new mindset. She's going to continue to be my favorite character, assuming Gonzalez or whatever the 10th guy's name is doesn't off her. I really like how her perspective on the virals has changed. Cronin can develop characters like it ain't no fucking thang.
     
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  23. The Blackfish

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    Martinez and I'm glad you said the last sentence because you're about to meet a bunch of new characters. Just go with it, it works.
     
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  24. The Blackfish

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    Part XII
    -Interested to see what happens when Peter reaches Kerrville. Will they believe what happened? I guess it would be kind of hard not to since he is bringing along 5000 witnesses.
    -Figured Amy wasn’t dead, but I hate the idea of her as a full viral
    -Wonder what is happening to Alicia? I wonder If she will go full viral too. She seems to think she is going to die but it seems that Cronin is like GRRM in that you can’t assume someone is dead unless it is explicitly stated. I think it was pretty obvious that Grey and Lila died but I wouldn’t even be too surprised if they show back up in the 5th book.
    -Who talked to Greer at the end? I’m guessing Amy was communicating with him as she was meeting up with Peter.
    -Feel bad for Baby Caleb, has been left by everybody (although Peter is going back to him now supposedly). Going to be interesting to see how he fits into the next book
    -Speaking of the next book I guess its going to be Peter/Amy and co. vs The Zero. Very excited. Fucking 2014 release though.
    -Onto the epilogue. Hoping to get a sense of what is going on with Zero.

    Epilogue
    -Amy and Carter are gonna chill until The Zero decides to start something I guess
    -I assume Amy is letting Wolgast go to the afterlife and Lila and Eva are the people on the porch waiting for him confirming that she is in fact dead.
    -Who does Amy love? Peter?
    -Alicia going to confront Zero? I would really hate if he got in her head and brought her over to the dark side.
     
  25. The Blackfish

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    Loved the book. Thought it was as good as the first one. Now the waiting game begins.
     
  26. Iron Mickey

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  27. Truman

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    I have so much to say, so bear with me...

    -I was right there with out at first about all the new characters. On one hand, It was cool to learn about the fall out right after the out break, but on the other, I really wanted to get back to our group from the first book.

    -Cronin is really good at building a connection betweent he reader and his characters. After a little bit, I was just as vested in them as anyone esle.

    - Fucking Dammit, why did Bernard have to die, I was really pissed, he was my favorite out of this group. Good call on the connection between him, April and Alicia. Seems like they are Alicia's Grandparents - Assuming that Bernard JR is Alicia's Dad.I didnt see that coming. I was thinking that the bus group would end up in Philly and we'd meet a young Auntie Jaxon. I was all :smug: when they pulled into Philly, then got shot down off my high horse, when the bolted.. oh well.

    -With the Grey vs Amy, vs Alicia vs Zero/the 12/ the many

    I wouldn't be to worried about all the different divergences. I think it could make sense in the long run. Grey has the blood lust because he was a direct descendant of Zero, who made him special. Alicia doesn't have that blood lust because she is a descendent of Amy (via her blood). Both are making their own versions of the Familiar. IDK just trying to work it out in my head.

    -Lila gets a free pass in my book because she was my man, Wolgast's true love, and Iknow she was all fucked up - PTSD or whatever, but man was she an annoying bitch. I almost, just skipped past her chapters, I hated it so much. Now that she has snapped out of it (and presumably lives from Grey's blood) hopefully she becomes more likeable.

    - I have a feeling we are going to learn more about Carter as a Viral. I thought it was strange that so much time was devoted to him and Grey at the start of the first book, but then left alone. Having this portion devoted to Grey, makes me think we get some Carter down the road.

    *** I fully realize you can't respond to most of this because you and done already, just wanted to throw my thoughts out there for everyone else.

    I didnt mind it. It was a quick way to re-hash the first book with out having to go in super detail.
     
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  28. The Blackfish

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    regarding my point about hoping the next part goes back to Amy, Peter and co.... it doesn't. But again its pretty good and has a big impact on the rest of the book.

    Laughed hard at one of your points but obviously won't say which one.

    When they first showed up in Philly I thought one of the men on the bus would be the one to grab Auntie from the surging crowd so she could be put on the train. Was wrong about that but was happy about Alicia.

    Like I said in my point, glad Bernard went out the way he did, doing for Tim what he didn't do for the boy in the car. Sucks he died though.
     
  29. Truman

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    Not much to add to this.

    Other than wasnt Voorhees the general for the army group that Alicia joined. He died in the attack before they left that camp? Looks like we get back to our core group in the next part. :parrot:
     
  30. Iron Mickey

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    I like all the random characters seemingly on a collision course. But it makes it a little slower since I'm not too terribly interested in them yet.
     
  31. Truman

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    Just read the first chapter of part IV where Wolgast tells her to go find Carter... looks like I was right about more Carter.... booyaah
     
  32. Truman

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    Look like I was right about getting more Viral Carter. With The Familiar thing. Bascially each of the 12 made thier scrub thier familiar just by basically mind fucking them. Like we saw Zero do to Grey (looking forward to see what has become of Grey btw). Seems like Amy got into Greer's head after the attempted suicides. Remember he said he heard Gods voice, and it was a woman? Im guessing that was Amy (You have probably figured that out by now, but im just saying it for my own amusement.)

    Also - Lila is alive, and working for Gilder for some reason. And to my dismay - she still seems like a wacky cunt. Is that what you were laughing about in my earlier post?
     
  33. The Blackfish

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    Haha yes it was
     
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  34. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey is this thing on?
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    For some reason, this book isn't holding my attention the way The Passage did. Maybe it's too early; kindle says I'm 38% of the way through it. Just started Part IV. Took me almost the entire section to put together
    that Voorhees was the same Voorhees from the camp. Hodor.

    I'm enjoying it, just need to make some time to plow through it.
     
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  35. The Blackfish

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    keep on trucking, trust me
     
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  36. Iron Mickey

    Iron Mickey is this thing on?
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    to be fair, I'm going to humble brag and blame my lack of progress on the fact that I got a sex visit after the gym and dinner tonight. had been a while, so felt extra good man

    think I'm developing some feels. ruh roh.
     
  37. The Blackfish

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    I can't speak on the matter seeing as I don't have to work for sex anymore

    since I'm in a relationship and not married

    so do what you need to do and continue at your own pace :thumb:
     
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  38. Truman

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    Part VII
    In my head, I was thinking this book has a lot less action than The Passage, then we get Part VII. When I was reading about the ambush, I was thinking it was Tifty, not Gilder. Gilder is a really fucked up dude. Sara is alive, which is great. Her being alive, along with Theo still being alive in the first book, still makes me think that Theo and Peter's Dad is still out there somewhere.

    We always heard how much of a bad-ass Peter is. It was nice we got to see it first hand in the pit. Also, I think Hollis is going to fuck up Gilder if/when they meet.
     
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  39. Truman

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    Part IX
    Okay....Im really starting to wonder what the fuck Wolgast saw in Lila, and its pissing me off. What an annoying, weird, cunt.
    /rant

    - Seriously though, How can she be so looney, then pull it together to control the virals?
    - Cool twist with Eva being Sara's kid.
    - Had this perception of Alicia that she was stronger than any chains that could hold her down. I guess not. She is gonna fuck some shit up though.
    - Guilder has a weird set of morals. You would think a guy that feed lambs to the slaughter and ensalve groups of people would be ok with an interrogator raping a hostage.
    - What is the deal with Grey and his blood. Would love some insight on that.
    - Is Grey really Zero's Familiar? If so, how does he fit in with Guilder?
    - What is Guilder and the group "almost completed with" Me thinks the arrival of the Twelve .
     
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  40. Truman

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    Part X
    This book has been a bit of a slow burn but shit is finally going down. :woot:

    - So Aunt Flo comes and all the sudden Amy is turning into an ass kicker?
    - Her I wish her jedi mind trick would be explained a little better, but Im assuming it's along the same lines of how Zero gets in Gilder, or how Babcock would fuck with Richards
    - Amy feels horrible guilt about killing The Many, but she has no problem making a dude count to 60 before hurling himself off a balcony?
    - I really want to know what "There is something I havent told you Lish - " is all about.

    Gonna knock out the rest of the book after the football game
     
  41. Iron Mickey

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    Not sure what part I'm on because I'm reading at random times, but Guilder sucks and Sara's life sucks more. Rather be dead tbph.
     
  42. Dolorous_Ted

    Dolorous_Ted Well-Known Member

    Just finished it,thought it was weaker than The Passage,but over all still enjoyed it.
     
  43. Truman

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    Part XI
    Fucking finally Lila. Just when I think you cant get any more annoying and stupid, you TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF!

    - Fight scene was fucking awesome.
    - Amy conversation with Guilder where she was all :smug: about what was about to go down reminded me of the Return of the Jedi scene wher Luke surrenders to his daddy.
    - Why did Guilder shrivel up and like as if:
    [​IMG]

    ... it obviously had something to do with Grey, but why didnt all the other redeye's shrivel up and die too? Maybe the did and it wasnt mentioned.

    - In the last part, Amy told Lish there was something she didnt tell her. Was it that fact you turn into a full fucking viral???

    I was kind of luke warm on this book until this part. Hopefully this finishes out strong.
     
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  44. Truman

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    Part XII & Epilogue

    -Ask for and you shall receive on why Guilder (and it turns out the rest of the redeyes) withered to dust. They were Grey's The Many - Im good with that explanation.
    - I dont like Amy being a full out viral. I kind of miss her being a mysterious, unassuming young girl. All her innocence is gone.
    - Im thinking there is going to be a big internal struggle in Kerrville between the president and the leader of the army. I wonder how that works into the finality with Peter, Amy, Greer & Co vs Zero
    - I wish Titfy would have gotten more air time. he was a badass, and would have liked to see him get after it.
    - I think Peter is the one that Amy loves. IT has been mentioned many times in The Passage and this book how she loves him, just differently than Wolgast. I just felt that it meant that her and Wolgasts connection was deeper. Now I get the other meaning. Having said that, Peter is way to obvious of an answer.
    - Can't get enough of Alicia. Excited to see how her story goes.

    Great book. As I was reading it, I didnt think it was as good as The Passage, but the ending really made it great, and I think it was just as good as the first one. Sucks Donkey Dick to have to wait over a year to get the third installment.

    <3 TMB BOOK CLUB. Would have never known about these books otherwise.

    Big ups to Arkie Proud for taking the time to organize this.
     
  45. The Blackfish

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    Love your points. Amazing book. I can finally change the thread title, will do it tomorrow probably.
     
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  46. Truman

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    Here is the podcast I posted last week in The Passage Thread. They are discussing The Twelve in this episode.

    Listening to it meow. WIll let you guys know when the The Twelve discussion starts once I get to it

    edit: The Twelve Discussion starts @ 44min30sec

    SPOILERS ARE DISCUSSED

    http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=8709875
     
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  47. Truman

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    They killed The Twelve. Hated it.

    They have some valid points, but I also think that they got too wrapped up in being critics. However, I completely agree on the Lilia stuff. After thinking about it a bit... They do have a lot of good points on the plot stuff, but I guess it just didnt bother me as much.
     
  48. The Blackfish

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    Where did it start?
     
  49. Truman

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    44min 30 seconds
     
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  50. Iron Mickey

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    Jags fan at the end of this book. I hope 3 gets back to The Passage's level.