So we started a discussion in the Bama thread which I thought would be better to continue here. Some people are put off by the shadow monster murking Renly as beign way more magic than previously used in the show and kind of a cop out of the big battle between Renly and Stannis. I can completely agree with this especially because of how it was handled in the show as opposed to the books. Among other things I thought the books dealt with this much better and much more subtly. Another topic of conversation was how much of a major player Renly is. I know in the show he seemed like he was going to be a major player since he had a major army but Renly is a nobody in the grand scheme of things. Jpripper88 LeonardWashington Swt
I would also say that if you're worried about the show continuing to get more and more "out there" fantasy wise after the shadow baby, I wouldn't worry about it too much, there is some more magic here and there but I think that is easily as "out there" as it gets.
Yeah I just watch the show, so that is my reference. If nothing else, Renly (for the viewer) was set as a huge pivot for the Stark's fight. I at least expected some sort of battle with that demon doing something crazy, but not completely ending the battle before it started. As over the top as that shit was, losing that battle/power struggle was as disappointing. Potions and "spells" are more acceptable for me because I consider it to likely be more like some chemistry that they can't explain, but is somewhat plausible. Some chick birthing a shadow demon is a little far fetched for me.
renly had around 80,000 men...stannis had under 10,000 (need to check that). what massive battle were they expecting?
I agree about it being somewhat of a cop out by George, but its not something he does often. However The Starks were never going to broker an alliance with Stannis or Renly because neither Stannis or Renly were going to allow Robb to be king in the north. The only way an alliance would have been brokered would be if Robb swore fealty to one of them which wouldn't happen.
The show stressed that Stannis was outnumbered but didn't truly play up how overmatched he was. Renly had 80k soldiers + 10k more at Highgarden (the Tyrells castle) and Stannis about 10k I think. Once Renly died Stannis controlled all except the Tyrells who were the other major house supporting Renly and a couple other houses and I think they had about 20k so Stannis was left with an army of about 70k
I thought it was a way to show the power of the Red God and how important Melisandre will be. And I think showfags really aren't able to understand the big picture yet. Spoiler I have some friends that think the war is going to come to conclusion by the end of the season none of them understand how ruthless GRRM is.
I mean, we had supernatural elements with Khal Drogo's death and when Dany survives fire while hatching dragons, this isn't out of the blue.
i remember it being a turning point when i was reading because for me it was the first explicitly supernatural thing to happen. i was prepared to explain danys immunity to fire and the wargs with some science fictiony answer. shadow monster out the vagina ended that notion though.
I am not familiar with the "giant magic wall". I know of "The Wall" which is an actual wall that is heavily armored and guarded. By "ice demons" do you mean the white walkers? Those have pretty much been 1 scene and rumor the rest of the way with no real characters affected. Dragons are a pretty common medieval storyline and are animals that are at least similar to dinosaurs/actual dragons, so yes those are more acceptable. A human pushing a "shadow demon" out their snatch that goes completely undetected to kill a meaningful character and drastically changes the story is much harder to accept.
its clearly a different world than earth so its not too hard to accept different creatures that are governed by similar natural laws. and i dont think there was really anything in the 1st book that implied the walls were actually magic (there was mention of it but i assumed those were myths). the toughest thing for me was dany's immunity to fire but at the end of the first book i was still trying to imagine some strange explanation involving dragon dna. but i gave all that up after the vagina shadow baby.
the wall is made entirely of ice and is enormous. With the technology they have at their disposal, how would they have built that without magic? The dragons breathe fire and were hatched from fossilized eggs thanks to their human surrogate mother burning herself alive. My point is that this is clearly not meant to be a story set within the confines of reality. Complaining that it doesn't seem realistic is like complaining that Super Troopers is an inaccurate account of what police officers are like.
I'm pretty sure someone was talking about how some dude a thousand years before used some magic to help build it
without spoiling too much, i would say you get hit with on average about 2 or 3 highly fantastical events each book from here on out.
I think the shadow baby is what really sets it apart. It was shocking and brought things to a new level.
I know it isn't reality. That doesn't mean that some things aren't more far fetched than others. You don't have to agree with me. I don't care. I don't like far fetched super natural stuff. People are saying that is about as out there it gets and if that is true, great. If not, I will probably not watch much longer. The wall has an enormous iron gate (at the least) does it not? So the wall is pure ice and built with magic? I don't know how the pyramids were constructed with the technology they had, but I don't think it was magic or aliens. I justify it along the same lines. If you don't like it/agree that is fine.
I mean it's fine, it's your own opinion. I just thought far fetched was an odd way to put it considering other things that have happened in the show. I agree that the vagina demon was really out there, but it's certainly not the only far fetched thing that's happened, just the weirdest
people do know how the pyramids were made though. this structure was made thousands of years ago in a land relative to the middle ages.
No, not really. Some people believe they were made without spells and magic and some people believe aliens helped. Considering there were people in that time that believed in curses, magic and spells, maybe they are magic too. Have you ever seen one of those amazing Brendan Fraser movies? No one really knows...
There was another scene with demons and magic in season one... When that witch raised Kahl Drogo back from the dead you could see the demons flying around in the tent. There really aren't too many ridiculous fantastic things, but there are some things sprinkled throughout the series. Shadow baby assassins may be the most far-fetched...
Ok. I don't like or get interested in supernatural stuff. I don't have a great imagination and don't care for it. It won't hold my attention, so I would eventually stop watching. Sorry for you, that not liking supernatural fiction makes someone sound like a bitch. You sound quite cool. As I responded to WBN and Swt in Champs, he was an important character to the major storyline of the series. In the TV show he was portrayed as a legitimate heir to the Iron Throne, a potential ally of the Starks, and the guy with the largest army. I have no clue how he is portrayed in any of the books already covered or in the future.
will you chill out, he's not as important as you're making him out to be. stop worrying about it and watch the rest of the damn season
Yea Renly wasn't important at all in the book was around for a few hundred pages and boom dead. Also the wall isn't completely ice. It was built like a normal wall as well but then Brandon the Builder used magic and ice to help built it.
Lol at Brandon the Builder spending so much time building the wall to defend the realm from grumpkins and snarks. I don't like or believe any of that supernatural stuff from Old Nan's tales.
Renly is not legit. The only legit people are Targaryans who were overthrown, Stannis or Joffrey/Tommen. Renly was Robert's younger brother while Stannis is older. Since Joffrey/Tommen are Jamie's sons Stannis by progression is the next king as he did not have any children with Cersei. Bastards don't count with succession. Also, in the books Renly acknowledges that he does not have a legit claim. He tells Stannis that people like him more and he has the bigger army which will make him king.