True Detective

Discussion in 'TV Board' started by Codename Duchess, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Coke

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    So I didn't like it either, but the idea that this season of True Detective shames us (and its characters) for the mindsets that enable fake news and pizzagates and stuff like that at least is somewhat interesting.

    If you take it together with S1.... the idea basically becomes hey sometimes there are potentially these big conspiracies, but more often than not there isn't a second shooter and everyone from cops to nuns to school teachers to faux documentarians are tempted by the idea of conspiracy and are willing to break from their own typical morals in service of that.

    That to me is minimally interesting. Realize that's not where we really ended up with the cut back to Vietnam, but could have been a better off-ramp in service of the same ending?
     
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  2. The Walrus

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    Season 1 was better and all, but do people forget about all the fan conspiracies that ended up amounting to jack shit? Season 3 wasn't much different. :idk:

    Little underwhelming, but I'm satisfied with it. Liked the season overall, and loved the two lead performances. Glad it ended on somewhat of a happy note for Julie.
     
  3. Pelican

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  4. Bankz

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    I'm surprised to see people shitting on the season because they didn't enjoy this final EP.

    I actually felt this was a better final EP than S1. And I wouldn't not recommend the season because of the ending.

    Would I like the know why the daughter bailed? Sure, but how important is it? They didn't devote a lot of time to it outside of a conversation at the table and the son/wife kinda answered why. We just thought they were sugar coating it because the dad was losing his mind.

    Probably the only unanswered question that disappointed me was why the break up after 15 years. What came between Mays and Roland...

    I kinda expected the kids death to be a accident I think that was fairly obvious. His sister putting his hands together cleans up that question.

    Mom being in on the plan and her having that guilt was also tied up.

    I felt the episode was very tense for it being mostly a happy ending.
     
  5. blind dog

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    Waaaayyyyy better than season 2, light years behind season 1
     
  6. am16401

    am16401 Praise God
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    So a guy who understood his battle with dimentia and tries writes down important things so he doesn't forget them decided not to write down that Julie maybe alive and living with Mike or call Roland before taking a long ass drive by himself to check it out....

    Man the next time I have a big fight with the Mrs. I'm using this shit lol
     
  7. Schadenfred

    Schadenfred Well-Known Member

    I'm fine with the third season... if the first season never existed. However, it's mostly for a reason that his little to do with expectations being dashed because the series could never live up to its initial greatness.

    As I stated before (below), the problem with the third season is that it drew SO MUCH on the first. It was practically a Mad Libs. Heck, this season even comes down to a gardener -- except this time he's inherently good instead of inherently evil.

    If you're going to retread the same setup, then the payoff better be worth it. What we got instead was Pizzolatto's televised version of an anti-joke.

     
  8. afb

    afb Spoiler Alert: Pawnee, IN may not be on a map.
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    Did you participate in theories in this thread or on the internet?

    I didn't do any of that and felt like no part of this season started to allude to any of that.

    After the depths people went in Season 1 for theories on this board, I decided to stop doing that because it just wasn't going to live up to that and would end up feeling like something was incomplete.
     
  9. Bankz

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    I probably would’ve enjoyed this season even more if I didn’t read those VF articles.
     
  10. afb

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    I will say once they sat down and the case started to neatly tie up, I was getting disappointed. But then the twist of her living on and the death being a cover up was great. Plus him forgetting just topped that whole bit off so I actually really really loved that ending.
     
  11. Juicy Locke

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    I really didn’t look at a whole lot of theories but I certianly think the show played that angle up. Just off the top of my head: the dolls, the politicians trying to wrap the case up, the blonde interview lady and specifically her mention of season 1.
     
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  12. nexus

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    Ali and Dorf were outstanding. That said, the actual case itself might be closer to season 2 quality than it was S1.
     
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  13. NYGator

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    I was thinking about it as I went to sleep, and I think you are right to couple season 3 to season 1. It’s the opposite. Just a couple of key points...the only murders were done by the cops. The crime itself was accidental manslaughter at most and the drugging of the girl. In addition, the lawn guy we see in season 1 was the bad guy and in season 3 he was the good guy. I’m sure there are a lot more opposite parallels, but I haven’t thought it through yet and I don’t recall many season 1 details.
     
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  14. Bankz

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    The son keeping the address is the directors way of saying they possibly solve the mystery officially down the road? Obviously us as viewers see the true answer but officially she’s still a missing person. I have to believe the reporter is somehow a part of solving it because if not what was the point of her in the story? She ruins a marriage and is way off in her conspiracy theory.

    I also got the creeps after the wife said we just repeat life till all is right or something along those lines and the final current day scene is Mays grandkids (a boy and girl) riding off together like the start of season 1.
     
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  15. Walt Disney

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    People seem to think he was confused at the end and forgot where he was

    The look he gave them while drinking the water made me think he knew what was happening

    I feel like he gave the son the address to let him solve it

    Is that a stretch?
     
  16. NYGator

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    I think that was all an homage to the life is a flat circle reference from season one. I think the season as a whole my be.

    I also thought it was weird how that is where they chose to end the story from the standpoint of Hayes is still alive. If that's his story than I think it is safe to assume that this is the extent of what he ever knew.
     
  17. NYGator

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    I guess you can choose to perceive it that way, but every time we thought that same thing previously it didn't seem to be the case. I think we have to accept his condition for what it is.
     
  18. Dudley Dawson2

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    The show went off the rails imo. Terrible final episode and Nic P's whole film noir esque series was pretty lazy imo. Countless scenes between Purple and his wife were complete shit and then for everything to be summed up in a 3 minute conversation around a kitchen table is film school stuff.

    I'm ready to say that Season 1's success is due mainly to Carey Fukunaga. I doubt he lets Nick P film some of those lazy scenes and shit tier storytelling in Season 3. Season 2 was atrocious without Carey and so Nick P decides that to be successful, let's just follow the Season 1 script, throw in a bunch of red herrings and timelines and pretend it's some film noir masterpiece. Let's make the landscaper bad in season 1 but let's throw them a curve ball in Season 3, let's make him a good guy. Wow. Amazing. Let's make the big powerful guys in Season 1 bad, but let's make them not terrible in Season 3 cause the audience will never see it coming.

    Best part of the series imo was Stephen Dorff's acting. Never knew he had it in him.
     
    #1718 Dudley Dawson2, Feb 25, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  19. Room 15

    Room 15 Mi equipo esta Los Tigres
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    That’s how I took it. Saw the girl living a happy life and decided not to stir it up.

    But then giving the address to his son goes against that theory.
     
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  20. Bankz

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    He was slipping in and out of his memory. I think the stress caused him to forget where he was when he initially got to the home. I do agree that as he was drinking the water it began to click. It wouldn't surprise me after his son arrived or sometime during the ride back if he lost the memory again and its why he just handed the paper to his son.

    We had a scene along those line the very first time Roland came to Hays home and Hays went to the bathroom. He seemed to slip into and out of thought/mind and led to a somewhat confusing scene. Probably the primer for what was to come at the ending.

    My beef with his wife coming back to him to solve the case is it wasn't really needed. He could've easily put it together himself. The moment the little girl introduced herself to Roland and Hays as Lucy I new the original Lucy was still alive. I think they put the clues in the show and I/some just missed it. I think itt it was briefly touched upon the scene where the little boy was working at the church. But no one really took a deep dive into why.
     
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  21. Truman

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    "I was doin real good without any head shittin' birds in here"

    Best line of the series.
     
  22. devine

    devine Make Devine A Mod Again
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    When was the bird shittin line used again I’m drawing a blank
     
  23. TrustyPatches

    TrustyPatches Life is butter let it churn
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    When he was kicking Amelia out in 1980
     
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  24. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    I don't feel like most of those predictions came true.... and the ones that did are kinda obvious. For example, if you have a crime, of course circumstantial evidence is going to be involved. Especially the parts about no real crime taking place...

    Long thoughts below
    I agree with mostly all of this. Comparing it with season 1, I thought the first 80% of season 1 was some of the best television that I've ever seen. I absolutely hated the ending to season 1... I thought it was insanely rushed and not very well done. I also personally just didn't give a shit about Cole's weird philosophy, even though I know a lot of the show was centered around that, I just didn't care or enjoy that aspect of it. I thought the supernatural shit in the ending, and the villain, and how everything kinda sorta wrapped up just didn't work when compared with the rest of the show. But I guess the comparison between the endings of season 1 and 3 depends on how much closure matters to you. Personally, I enjoy closure, so I thought season 3's ending was much better. Also, this season just didn't have a scene that could compare to the shootout at LeDoux's or the scene where Cole was running around the projects, but that's a very very high bar. I also think it's certainly fair to point out that much of this season seemed borrowed from season 1, but as long as the end product is good (I felt it was) I'm ok with that even though it's lame.

    I also think people are being too hard about the Mr. June scene... I didn't think it was some magic scene that solved the entire mystery in 3 minutes of dialogue. I think 90% of what he told them, they had already investigated and they knew. He just filled in the gaps and details, gave more color about the daughter and why she wanted the girl, which we already kinda knew. I don't think there was any real revelation there that Roland and Hayes didn't know except maybe the drugging of the daughter. I think that scene was more about giving closure and certainty to the viewer than a way to magically all of a sudden solve the mystery... for the most part it was 95% solved. I thought the resolution of some of the bigger players of the season 1 conspiracy via a news anchors report to be much worse than the Mr. June scene. I also thought Cole just breaking and entering the house of some big powerful guy and getting videotapes that solve the case and reveal a huge conspiracy was as big of a bullshit confirmation of their theories than the scene w/ June.

    I do agree with what some others have posted here about the crime itself. In comparison to season 1 I just didn't find it as interesting. Also, hate to be the "realism" guy but how the hell do you expect to keep a daughter hidden away for like a decade, in the most highly publicized case in the region where the victims picture is plastered everywhere, and expect that to work? When the kid needs to go to the doctor, to school... shit anything, how would somebody not think that it was sketchy af and tip people off that these people had a girl the same age and description hidden away in a basement dungeon. Just kinda lame in comparison to the first season.

    Also, I did not understand the end of the conversation with Mr. Hoyt. He seemed to imply that he was kinda clueless about Julie Pursell... there is no way that could be possible. Unless I am misremembering or misinterpreted his comments. I know he was not involved in the initial abduction but he definitely helped the cover up and to keep her hidden. I had to have missed something there.

    Anyway I think tl/dr summary of my thoughts is that I really enjoyed the season, mostly because of the amazing acting by pretty much all parties involved. I felt like it was maybe a smidge worse than season 1 mainly because the crime just didn't quite have the sizzle of season 1, but I enjoyed the ending of this season more because I found it to be more coherent and offered more closure than season 1. . Not everything was solved, like Amelia's fate, and I kinda thought the reason given for years of discord between Roland and Hayes was very weak considering all they had gone through together, but the vast majority of things were tied up which I thought was going to be nearly impossible to do.
     
    #1725 LeonardWashington, Feb 25, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  25. BamaNug

    BamaNug A lot of problems with you ppl
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    The entire Amelia story line irritates me. They hinted so much that there was something more, and then just sort of let it fizzle out.

    Really hated the "big" scene with Mr. June around the coffee table, basically spoon-feeding the audience what happened. I hate when a movie or show treats the audience like that (and to that extent, not even really digging into anything deeper re: politicians/conspiracy/etc.).

    Would probably give the season a 6/10. Some episodes were pretty good (really liked the penultimate episode), but a poor finale can really leave a bad taste in your mouth.
     
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  26. BamaNug

    BamaNug A lot of problems with you ppl
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    That was such an anti-climatic scene. Was very disappointed.
     
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  27. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    I don't really understand people who loved season 1 being frustrated with the inclusion of all the scenes showing the family dynamics btw Hayes and Amelia... couldn't you say the exact same things about the Maggie and Marty from season 1 that basically amounted to a lot of red herrings and not much else? If you want to criticize it for re-hashing season 1, I think that's fair but idk how you enjoyed season 1's version of those scenes but not season 3. Tbqh I felt like the inclusion of those scenes were kinda weaker moments from both seasons, but they did provide for character depth.

    I also don't understand people thinking that Mr. Hoyt or the "big powerful guys" in season 3 weren't despicable like they were in season 1.
     
  28. NYGator

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    I think the show is destined to take a huge hit from this finale. I will still watch it if it comes back, but it is not top tier. I hope that they rethink the 8 episode format. Even when the show was great in season one, eight just feels like two few to tell the types of stories they are trying to tell, although in retrospect this story could have probably been told in 4-6. I still can't get over the climax of the crime being told over a kitchen table with false suspense that they may kill him
    I couldn't stand her character, but the "something more" was that she was a part of the case for him and the story was about the case. His attraction to her may have been due to how involved she was since that was all he focused on in life. His relationship with her was about the case and information she wrote in her book wound up triggering at least two major reveals to him, one in the 10 year time line and one in the final timeline. The show may have been more interesting if she was somehow involved in the actual death and coverup, but at that point it just becomes nonsensical entertainment. In this case, not sure which would be better since the way the plot was revealed was pretty awful.
     
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  29. NYGator

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    For one, he didn't run a child molesting and murdering ring, but that's just that. Yes, he is an asshole, but ultimately as it relates to the plot, his contribution was a Machiavellian approach to making his daughter as happy as he could as an absentee father figure. Yes, it was despicable, but he didnt kill the boy or give the girl the drugs (may not have even known about that since he was away so much), and as noted it was a deal struck with another parent of the child.
     
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  30. War Grundle

    War Grundle Nole Mercy
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    Honestly, I thought Hoyt was going to do a Peter Pan off the cliff once he finished that pint of whiskey.
     
  31. Bankz

    Bankz I'm a sick guy
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    I think this is where we drop the ball a bit... Like in S1 the ending to S3 also felt rushed. Getting 10 EPs might have solved this issue a bit more. They never touched on the phone call and the fake dad in the press conference. Even if you didn't read the VF article the show itself pointed to this being a bigger cover-up than just the one eyed house maid, crazy daughter and billionaire dad with one cop on the payroll. Chief of Police, AG of the state, Governor all seemed to be in the loop. I don't need a teacher or doctor to be shown to figure they had someone on the payroll in the end they aren't major figures or have much to do with the bigger picture. If she was able to self medicate and medicate the kid i'm sure a doctor was coming to the home. With her being so hands on as the new mom she could've easily home schooled. BUT the cover up isn't just the servant and Dudley dip shit cop. It had to be bigger and they just glossed and skipped it entirely at the end. Not sure if lack of run time was the problem but its a flaw in the season for me.

    I enjoyed the interaction a ton. Its not like Hoyt was going to come out and admit to anything. At the same time he said enough to confirm he was involved and if Mays kept pushing "people" would keep searching for Julie. Add that to the threat to Hays family and I think both men came out of the conversation knowing the dirt the other was part of. I think Hays wanted the full details and ultimately not getting them at that time led him in his older years when his kids were out of reach from the Hoyts to look again.
     
  32. NYGator

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    I just realized, I am forgetting a big piece of why Hoyt was bad (if true). We are to assume that he had Tom killed, right? That entire plot point felt rushed and buried.
     
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  33. Bankz

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    I'm curious if the kitchen table convo was the show's answer to so many people who enjoyed S1 but felt at the end it was tough to follow and put all together. For those who dove deep you understood the story and its complicated and intricate story line weaves. As others have said what the one eye man said didn't break new ground. The kid dying by accident was known but he filled in who positioned his hands (the sister). We knew the Hoyts were part of the abduction but how much wasn't known. Mr. Hoyt at the end had little to nothing to do with the abduction but did play a big role in covering it up. We knew the mom played a role but not how much and they made that clear also. She was paid off and when the money ran out she came a calling for more before Hoyt decided she had to go. I get not liking the scene because you and other followed the show close enough to not need it be told to us in a paint by numbers approach but the show decided it was probably best to dumb it down for the larger audience
     
  34. Bankz

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    Tom broke into his home right after the case was re-opened. I would assume Harris killed him with the shot to the back of the head. He then staged the crime scene to make the investigation go away for a second time. I'm sure he was fine with how it played out as his only goal was to make this shit go away. But I don't think he put out a hit on Tom.

    What happened to Dan is never answered. Did Tom kill him in the apartment and bury him (unlikely) did the Hoyt's and Harris get to him ( you would think they would add that to the show) or did he just run away never to be heard from again in fear.
     
  35. LeonardWashington

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    He was also directly involved with and likely ordered the murder of Lucy and likely her brother, possibly ordered the murder of Dan, aided and abetted human trafficking , not to mention all the collateral damaged he caused covering up and aiding the actions around Julie's abduction... are we being serious here? I mean are we really having to search for why Hoyt was a bad guy? He was a lot worse than just being an asshole.
     
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  36. Juicy Locke

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    I really don’t know what to attribute to Hoyt. He came off as a drunk. The complete opposite of what I expected to see from him.
     
  37. LeonardWashington

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    He was a drunk because of all the horrible tragedies and misfortune that had befallen the people he loved most. Probably also partly because of guilt. I assume that is how he rationalized his unforgivable actions.
     
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  38. TrustyPatches

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    I would also like to reiterate that Stephen Mother Fuckin Dorff needs to come outta the other side of this doing stuff and things regularly and I mean good stuff and things. Dude was positively amazing and more than held up his end alongside one of the best actors in the planet. I feel like Dorff has the potential going forward to play characters I enjoy to watch
     
  39. NYGator

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    Yes, I acknowledged this after, but even that we don't know for sure, but I think it is safe to assume it. It probably comes down to crimes against kids versus adults as well as being a triggerman versus not.
     
  40. Juicy Locke

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    I agree about the tragedies and his family but guilt, I just didn’t get that with his convo with Hayes. He seemed to be looking for an many answers as Hayes. He even said as much, “do I look like a man with fucking answers”. He almost seemed to be trying to protect himself because he knew all this shit had happened under his roof but not to what extent.
     
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  41. NYGator

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    Yes, he was super hero like in the bar. :)
     
  42. Fidelio

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  43. TrustyPatches

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    Also I feel like people are being less forgiving of this season than they were season 1 because season 1 had such amazing set pieces and scenes. I guess that’s fair. I was completely satisfied by the acting and the story of season 3 and will definitely rewatch at some point.
     
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  44. Bankz

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    I hope not lost in the anger over the final 80 minutes of a really good season is the amazing acting throughout the show. Dorf and Ali were amazing. But the job done by Scoot McNairy (tom) Mamie Gummer (lucy) and Micheal Graziadei (Dan) was on par in a more limited role.
     
  45. TrustyPatches

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    Make him Batman
     
  46. NYGator

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  47. NYGator

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    too short
     
  48. TrustyPatches

    TrustyPatches Life is butter let it churn
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    But he’s got heart
     
  49. NYGator

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    ant man?