To my knowledge it isn’t something that we do, but if it is then great- that’s all I was advocating for in OP. I don’t want anyone’s healthcare taken away, but if it’s government healthcare and they decide to ignore government health guidance, then the rest of society shouldn’t have to pay for their ignorance/irresponsible behavior. Edit: just reread your response and I don’t think we are on the same page. I agree we should implement universal healthcare. But people don’t get booted off of Medicare for failing to adhere to health guidance, separate issue. So I’ll just go ahead and answer the question I posed earlier- no, I am absolutely not ok with some asshole whose eligible for the vaccine not taking it and then being treated on the gov’t’s dime after they contract the virus the vaccine was designed for. If you allow that, universal healthcare becomes infeasible as a disproportionate amount of resources are going to go to treating those who act irresponsibly. Im willing to bet that in the case I referenced (we’ve all probably seen the video by now) that guy has Medicare coverage. I doubt he’d have such strong objections to getting the vaccine if he were notified that his Medicare would not cover another COVID hospitalization.
No. My point was that we’re already paying double for “irresponsible behavior.” This isn’t something new. Once you start down this road it leads to all kinds of terrible decisions. There needs to be a very bright line preventing that sort of behavior. The line is that we never ever do it. It doesn’t matter how you got to your bad health place. If you need help, you get it. We should be mandating vaccines across the board. That’s true. We should not be threatening to remove someone’s healthcare if they don’t. That’s inhumane. And awful. Just no. Stop suggesting it.
I don’t wholly disagree with you, but you cannot practically: 1. Mandate vaccination, absent a very unlikely interpretation by SCOTUS or an even more unlikely amendment to the Constitution 2. Provide universal healthcare without some major changes. Take a look at the countries that do have universal healthcare, they all have something else in common- strict regulations regarding what’s allowed in their food and drugs. You unfortunately can’t have a system that both insures treatment for all individuals and doesn’t require those individuals to avoid reckless or negligent behavior. But curious to hear what your solution to “paying double” would be, or do you just consider it a necessary outcome? I don’t think it’s inhumane to offer someone a vaccine that will keep them from getting sick and then refuse to treat them once they get sick because the finite resources we have need to be applied to those who are unable to be vaccinated. As long as they’re aware of the repercussions when offered the vaccine, I call that informed choice.
You absolutely can. We have a system right now that doesn’t care about the behavior that led the person to need care. I have no idea why you are continuing with this argument. It’s a completely disgusting one. Everyone. Everyone deserves healthcare. It is not a reward for being good. It’s a right of everyone forced to exist on this planet.
Cool. Appreciate the characterization of my argument as disgusting. For the record, I believe that healthcare is a right and not a privilege. I just recognize that, as with any right, someone can forfeit it through their actions. Our current system doesn’t care about the behavior that led to someone needing care because it isn’t funded by finite public resources. If it’s not profitable to treat, the person either gets second rate care or is sent to hospice. But don’t mind me, I’ve only researched and worked to implement wider access to Medicare for the last 8 years of my career. What would I know.
1. Specifically exempted within the constitution. 2. We’re talking about healthcare. You don’t forfeit your right to care by actually attempting suicide. You don’t lose it for eating too much fast food. You don’t lose it by being a man that has sex with men. You NEVER lose it. To suggest otherwise is disgusting. Healthcare is a calling and obligation to serve others. Stop trying to turn it into some kind of means to reshape society. Edit - also, prisoners may lose their right to vote. They don’t forfeit their right to healthcare when in prison.
Sorry, where in the constitution? I’m trying to wade through the misogyny and bullshit grammatical structure of several hundred years ago but I can’t find anything regarding the exemption of those rights.
Ask somebody else for the case law on that. It’s irrelevant when it comes to discussing the right to healthcare. Felons cannot be denied healthcare when in prison.
What the hell are you talking about? It’s about paying for it. 1. It costs less to buy healthcare in bulk. 2. The biggest bulk purchasing our country can do is nationwide healthcare. 3. We can get more providers with money. 4. We control how much money we have to spend. All we have to do is decide we want to do it. It’s disgusting that we don’t.
Thought it was constitutional. And while I believe healthcare (and housing and a guaranteed life of dignity) should be undeniable rights, they simply aren’t codified as such. I’m not arguing against your position or for denying people healthcare, I just think peoples’ actions have forfeited their rights for years. I also wish a swift death for everyone that has a death wish and I hope they burn in a hell that I don’t believe in.
Do you not understand the difference with healthcare? Healthcare is not an enumerated right in the constitution. Life, liberty, and property are. Courts and the constitution spell out ways that you can lose your life, liberty, or property. Despite the fact that healthcare isn’t an enumerated constitutional right, courts have mandated that prisoners have the right to healthcare while in prison. The state must provide healthcare for them. Despite the fact that they have been deprived of their liberty and property to wind up there - they still have a right to healthcare.
“Take away their healthcare” is the Republicanest take I’ve seen on this board in quite some time, and it seems to keep coming up.
Honestly I envy you. Your idealism is refreshing and I hope you never lose it. Not a fan of the righteous indignation though but to each their own.
Lmao. If you knew me you’d know I am the furthest thing from a republican. Fuck that entire political party. I worked for an NPO for 5 years before taking a job with the fed. I’ve worked on 3 senate democratic campaigns and instead of regurgitating idealistic bullshit on a message board, I actually spend my time trying to effectuate some real change. I was trying to be nice. Apologies to the rest of the board for this post.