Venezuela Topic

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by southlick, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci How can less be more? It's impossible
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    It's not all that surprising. I've seen estimates as high as 1 million civilian deaths caused by the US invasion. Plus just the general chaos of the half assed provisional government in the aftermath. Plus ISIS.

    Also dont let watson bait you with his bullshit
     
  2. NothingIsOT

    NothingIsOT I got you COACH!
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    Your first part- that went out the door. There’s no scenario in which Venezuela will not be complete turmoil with a guy that lost his election and is universally hated. Vzuela already has the highest homicide rate in LatAm and rapid inflation. I don’t know high things can possibly recover with Maduro in power.

    Your second part I agree with. What’s the way to nudge someone who isn’t budging? I’m all for it. His history though doesn’t suggest he’s going to step down amicably.

    Something has to be done, and I think it has to come from LatAm with Colombia leading the charge. US provide humanitarian relief but stay out.
     
  3. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci How can less be more? It's impossible
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    Which election are you talking about that Maduro lost?
     
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  4. Eathan Edwards

    Eathan Edwards Well-Known Member

    22 and 24 - don't know the region they're from off-hand but I went to one of their brother's funerals last year (motorcycle accident not Iraq) so I definitely buy their backstory after meeting the family.

    Would be weird for me to ask specifically to them now but I think it was Karrah dakhir (I'm sure I'm butchering that).
     
    #254 Eathan Edwards, Feb 24, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  5. NothingIsOT

    NothingIsOT I got you COACH!
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    Is it your contention that Maduro has the support of the people of Venezuela?
     
  6. Mister Me Too

    Mister Me Too Well-Known Member
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    You keep saying that Maduro lost the election, where are you getting that from?

    And I don’t know how you expect that another country will lead the way when the US is the one making this push. Trust me when I tell you that this has nothing to do with fair elections or concern for the people of Venezuela this is all about getting US oil companies into Venezuela.
     
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  7. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci How can less be more? It's impossible
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    You keep talking about him losing an election and I'm curious what you're talking about

    I mean he got 60+% of the vote in a 3 person race so most likely there was funny business involved but he never lost

    You didn't seem to know about the 2002 coup attempt either
     
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  8. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    I don't care if you respond. I don't need your affirmation to know I'm right.

    I just find it odd and sad you and AIOLICOCK have reached the point you have. It took more than 100 years from the enactment of the 13th Amendment until African-Americans could actually vote in this country. And you're talking about one of the most advanced, civilized countries in the history of the world.

    But you and Ale are reduced to being the retards that argued, "The Civil War, Reconstruction and the Jim Crow era were so awful, we would have just been better off leaving the blacks slaves."

    We didn't create the instability in Iraq. It was always there, Sadaam just kept it hidden with his mass executions and human rights abuses. Iraq has had a tough time the past 16 years but at least they have a chance to do better. You two are taking a very short-sighted approach. You two are smarter than that and know better.
     
  9. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci How can less be more? It's impossible
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    :pffft: wtf is this
     
  10. NothingIsOT

    NothingIsOT I got you COACH!
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    :laugh:

    He rigged the election. The UN didn’t want anything to do with it. I don’t think there’s anyone using the legitimacy of that election as a talking point except you guys.

    Is it your contention there is an amicable way to remove Maduro that doesn’t involve blockades? I just don’t see it.
     
  11. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    No ones saying it was legitimate, but repeatedly saying he lost is an odd statement and why so many people asked for clarification.
     
  12. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    Don't worry. I didn't need a response. I learned a long time ago people on the internet can't admit when they're wrong.

    Did you see when double RL argued Wake Forest required household income on their application the other day? That was proven wrong with a simple google search so he took the same approach you're taking now.
     
  13. TAXTAXTAX

    TAXTAXTAX Well-Known Member
    Florida State Seminoles

    We should invade Brazil instead. Their election was clearly fraudulent. They put the most popular candidate in prison, on trumped up charges, and didn't allow him on the ballot.

    No double standards, please.
     
  14. Mister Me Too

    Mister Me Too Well-Known Member
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    No one ever said the elections are or were legitimate but illegitimate elections is different than saying he lost, you do know the difference? And I could be mistaken but the UN did not play a part in the elections because the US vetoed a resolution that would’ve involved UN inspectors overseeing the elections.
     
  15. Joe_Pesci

    Joe_Pesci How can less be more? It's impossible
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    Lmao are you legit bragging about something like that?
     
  16. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
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    We should invade America, the elections were clearly fraudulent
     
  17. fsudan

    fsudan Well-Known Member
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    lol at liberals scoreboarding a completely fraudulent election
     
  18. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    No. It seriously pains me that people like you and double RL prefer to stick your heads in the sand.

    Like I said, you’re smarter than that and should help make the world a better place.
     
  19. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    Not all the liberals.

    Just a lot of the new age ones.
     
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  20. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    So what solution to you advocate? If you were POTUS, what would you do?
     
  21. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Raise taxes, do nothing but collect more taxes and invest 10% of the money collected into some collective transportation infrastructures that will fail within 10 years....

    And oups, we lost the other 90%


    Money is not important anyway. Just fascists trying to quantify productivity.
     
  22. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    do you know where you are
     
  23. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Oh yeah
     
  24. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishMontreal Canadiens

    What is your solution?
     
  25. cutig

    cutig My name is Rod, and I like to party
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    :drunk:
     
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  26. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Great answers from the lefties
     
  27. cutig

    cutig My name is Rod, and I like to party
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    There was no question, just some drunk nonsensical rambling
     
  28. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    take tons of refugees, give money to countries surrounding to take refugees, provide humanitarian aid to the country under the avenues we've been doing but more robust, remove sanctions that almost exclusively just exacerbate the problem and harm the most at risk in the country, do use individual sanctions on the leaders that inhibit their ability to take advantage of their stolen wealth, push the UN to send election officials, don't allow US and international companies to take advantage of the situation to the detriment of the population or in the aftermath, among many many other policies that prioritize the humanity of the citizens first as opposed to financial interests.

    and avoid regime change at basically all costs, it never works, just look at every country we've tried it with over the last century+, we have a literal laundry list of atrocities we've aided and abetted, with innumerable amounts of deaths. the downsides far outweigh the upside (except for the US financial interest, which is why we keep doing it)
     
  29. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Do you believe in a system that ressembles communism, if not explain to me what system you think would fit your country and it’s population the best.
     
  30. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    i wish we had a breathalyzer for the board, do you realize what thread you're in
     
  31. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Venezuela topic, maybe I was duped.
     
  32. cutig

    cutig My name is Rod, and I like to party
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    How much do I need to drink to figure out why you're posting this question in this thread
     
  33. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    How much alcohol do you have on hand?
     
  34. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    Good post, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

    I haven't been following this story very closely, but haven't we been sending humanitarian aid to neighboring countries?
     
  35. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    we have to a degree, the problem is now we're explicitly trying to use the aid as a political tool to provide an excuse for military activity(conveniently that might allow a bypass of congress) and get Venezuelan military to defect, see the bridge theatrics
     
  36. TAXTAXTAX

    TAXTAXTAX Well-Known Member
    Florida State Seminoles

    End the sanctions. Provide financing and expertise, to restore lost oil production.

    Support talks between the National Assembly and Maduro, including assurances of democratic elections.

    None of that will happen though, because most of the people are super poor, and support the socialist party. If the country was stabilized, the socialist party would surely remain in power, and the whole point of the US policy is to over throw the government, and install a government more friendly to US businesses, regardless of what the people in Venezuela want.
     
  37. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    Also, on the topic of humanitarian aid- forgive my ignorance here but I have always wondered this... does humanitarian aid actually work?

    My question arises because I often wonder how effective aid to places like Africa really is. I see ads all the time asking for aid, it seems foreign governments have given lots of money and aid over the years (I know they've been quite disruptive as well, but that's outside of the scope of the question here)... but, from an outsiders perspective, things don't seem to improve in these nations. Why is that? Are we not giving enough? Is it being stolen? I figured some on this board may know more about the topic, I admittedly know very little about it.

    I have bought a book called Dead Aid on the subject but haven't gotten around to reading it yet, because this question fascinates me. Has anyone read it? Any good? Any recommendations on the topic?
     
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  38. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    I am not sure what is it that you don’t understand.
     
  39. Mister Me Too

    Mister Me Too Well-Known Member
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    You live in Canada, right?
     
  40. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    Well aren't most in the country poor because of Maduro's policies...mainly the government's handling of the oil operation?

    Also, if Maduro says fuck off, I'm not letting anyone (such as the UN) help with these elections, you just let him do that? What do you do?
     
  41. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    Yes
     
  42. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    It absolutely works if you're talking about saving lives.

    Will it fix the underlying issues in Venezuela? Absolutely not.
     
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  43. TAXTAXTAX

    TAXTAXTAX Well-Known Member
    Florida State Seminoles

    No? The country has been run forever by a small rich white elite, while the majority mixed race and native people live in abject poverty. You know, like all the other countries in Central and South America.

    And Maduro wouldn't do that, because he would win. If he did, you could just withdraw support for the oil production.

    They can't get the oil out of the ground without products from the US to dilute the oil.
     
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  44. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    this is a good thread on the first question, its complicated
     
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  45. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    So naturally, we should do what Lyrtch described and subsidize their wealthy lifestyle for them.
     
  46. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
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    And Canada just legalized marijuana, so of course the governement passed a few laws and now only a few sellers and shop can actually produce and sell....and of fucking course they are losing money. I am not even joking, they are losing money selling legal weed, it’s almost impossible to do but they did it. And of course the population is paying for it.

    I come across as a fucking redneck but you guys don’t know what you are getting yourselves into if you want to make your system more public and less private,
     
  47. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    keep your redneck ideology to what you can support with evidence thx bb
     
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  48. AIOLICOCK

    AIOLICOCK Well-Known Member
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  49. LeonardWashington

    LeonardWashington every year gon be our year
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    Thanks for sharing, that was a good read. Author seemed to have a bit of a slant haha, but good background framing of the situation.
     
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  50. IHHH

    IHHH Well-Known Member
    Notre Dame Fighting IrishMontreal Canadiens

    I would like the same courtesy from you.

    I think I would enjoy a philosophical discussion on these issues, but i don’t think this thread is the place for it. I am sure we are closer than you think.