That's what they do in ultimate. There is an open, women's and mixed division. If anyone plays open they will match with anyone. In mixed ratios have to match.
Until there is definitive proof that transgender women have an unfair athletic advantage over cisgender women due to their birth gens, I say let em play. However, since I’m not really affected by the decision, I’d also listen to pros and cons from women on the subject.
What does Martina Navratilova have to say about this? Apparently there is an ongoing internet war between lesbians and transgenders on this topic. Some lesbians, like Navratilova, feel male to female transgender athletes have an unfair advantage over biological females. Some in the transgender community feel that's trans-phobic, and sets the trans movement back, especially coming from a high-profile lesbian athlete, who they feel should be more sympathetic and supportive, all things considered. This is where the "I am what I feel I am" vs. biology rubber meets the road. Does anyone think a biological male does not have an inherent advantages over a biological woman, even if they have reduces testosterone levels for a year, or more? Puberty is really the key, if you hit puberty as a male, you get all the biological benefits of that initial surge of testosterone, and that's not ever going to fully be reversed. Every now and then I see some transgender high school kid breaks a state sprinting or swimming record, or kicks the shit out of every female wrestler in the state. The recent one was 2 transgender females finished 1 and 2 in the Connecticut state track and field sprint events, and one broke the state 100m record as a sophomore. That chick ran the 100 in 11.27. It's not clear if either has been on hormone treatments, and is so for how long.
Here is where testosterone plays the biggest role, and the differences between biological males and females Adolescents Age Male (in ng/dl) Female (in ng/dl) 12 to 13 years Less than 7-800 Less than 7-75 14 years Less than 7-1,200 Less than 7-75 15 to 16 years 100-1,200 Less than 7-75 Testosterone increases the number of neurotransmitters which creates more muscle mass, triggers more dense bone growth, helps men burn fat more efficiently, increases the efficiency of exercise by triggering the production of more red blood cells, improves spacial memory and coordination.
BrickTamland if you actually care to learn this is a good start on the topic that brings together all kinds of studies, viewpoints, arguments, etc. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5570685/ its complicated! shocker
This topic doesn’t move the needle for me. I just remembered you saying previously ITT about test levels not being the factor.
Ok so for everyone else that actually is interested in the science of it, that article is good and shows how woefully short sighted the testosterone bar is with little to no evidence to justify it.
I’ll read it later when I can but is it just a study on women with normal vs women with higher than normal testosterone levels? Or are men tested in this as well?
Men are tested as well. There is a huge need for more research on the topic if these boards are going to continue using testosterone as the bar. It'll also prevent the courts from deeming them discriminatory if they have evidence to justify it.
I'll fully admit I don't know the answer to most the situations that come up on this topic. I do find the argument laid out in there regarding punishing certain biological variation but prizing others as in Semenya's case convincing. But I won't ruin the article with my paraphrasing, it does a much better job than I can laying it all out.
The thought that a male athlete would cut his dick off for the purpose of competing as a woman is laugh out loud funny.
I wouldn’t give a shit about this at all if it wasn’t for every women out there that trained there whole lives for a chance to be able to represent their country and then get left off the team entirely or lose medals to the transwomen. Even just the Connecticut high school thing you all joke that it isn’t a big deal in that case but I am sure there are at least five girls out there who put hours in just to compete in that meet that are upset. They lose out on an opportunity to get some well deserved recognition because people want to virtue signal.
How am I wrong? You just posted about how you’re concerned about all these girls who worked so hard (virtue signaling) and then accused others of virtue signaling. It’s a brutally ironic post.
If it’s literally my whole argument as a stance it isn’t virtue signaling. If I just said I don’t think they should be able to compete I would be called transphobic for not having a good reason. Virtue signalling is when you stand for social justice principles that don’t make sense because you don’t want to contradict yourself due to the corner you backed into i.e. saying what you need to to stay in the mob not against it. Learn what irony means. God you must be a horrible lawyer.
I think you don’t know what virtue signaling means. That’s cool, though, because it’s an asinine buzzword anyway.
This board had become a huge circle jerk. It’s pretty embarrassing how offensive posters that have been here since day one used to be and now act all uppity because they support neo-Marxist (to please your highness Lyrtuch) principles that don’t hold any water. This board literally used to be littered with ‘faggot’ and now everyone is an angel. I used to say it for sure but I stopped because it can hurt people’s feelings not because it is offensive to non-gay wanna be activists. Instead of worrying about improving your own life and the community you live in, you instead talk this game about caring about people but then post how you wish death on some silly people on the right and people you have never met. The absolute hypocrisy of the left is what is driving people in droves to vote for a sociopath like Trump. Congrats on getting him elected. Meanwhile he was campaigning and stated that if he lost it would be because the election was rigged and democrats flipped about how you couldn’t say that about our democratic process. He proceeds to win and now all I see on the news is how the election was rigged by Russia. Make up your minds for Christ sake. Another good example of this BS is people transitioning to become the opposite gender and the support you give them (which is fine) but then you also say gender isn’t real and it is fluid. The trans people in this country don’t transition because he or she wants to be on this made up spectrum. They transitioned to become one or the other. If there really was no gender there wouldn’t be people mutilating their genitals to become the opposite sex. Talk more about social science research that literally proves nothing other than most scientists don’t know how to setup controlled experiments. Social science is a joke. There is no scientific process used other than a biased question, hypothesis, and expected ‘prediction’. Wow you people really are something. Look in the mirror and become self-aware.
No the made up hypocrisy criticism of virtue signalling is what is made up. People calling BS on motives is not hyposcrisy but can be made to appear that way when you just apply the term right back like a ‘no I’m not you are’ childish argument because you have no actual argument other than wanting to fit in with the mob. I can’t virtue signal by being in the minority against a tidal wave coming the opposite direction. Hardly winning me any respect or sympathy. Which is literally the entire point of virtue signalling.
It’s when one smugly pretends that his argument is more sincere than others’ because he really cares about [insert moral imperative/virtue here].
This board has changed some think for the better. But, it has always been a circle jerk. It used to (for lack of better words) a non pc circle jerk called it right leaning if you want now it swung left. There is nothing wrong with that I among others have grown and don’t hold the same beliefs. As far as this issue it’s a non issue. Some post op individuals will compete but not enough to make it a big impact. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.
You would let your mother, wife or daughter step into a boxing ring or better a MMA fight with a grown tranwomen who changed sexes 5 years after puberty?
It's not the growing as a person and developing more sensible beliefs that he or anybody is bothered by. It's the condescending nature with which a particular chunk of this board expresses those beliefs anytime anyone dares to see anything differently than they do that is incredibly tiring.
I won’t “let” any of those fight period. I wouldn’t let one of my sons do it either. People aren’t equal better athletes that have better genes beat worse athletes. This would be another example of that. People are trying to make a minuscule thing into something bigger.