What would you consider to be the most intense battle in history?

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Popovio, Aug 16, 2018.

  1. fsugrad99

    fsugrad99 I'm the victim here
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    For real though, Carlin called Verdun “the worst conditions a human being has ever faced”, or something like that
     
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  2. DaveGrohl

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    Yep. That Carlin episode on this was depressing. The tales of men getting off course and sinking in the mud just being doomed to die while watching their fellow soldiers keep walking was brutal.
     
  3. Fargin' Icehole

    Fargin' Icehole 50% soulless
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    Good thread. So many ancient battles with Massive casualties. Plus being hand to hand, face to face, would be horrific. Persian wars, Alexander the Great, Punic wars, Muslim/Persia, Mongols, etc., had unreal battles with extreme death tolls.

    Hard to argue with Stalingrad but that mud and everything that came with it in Passchendaele had to be awful. Imagine drowning in toxic rot from dead bodies and gas. You survive all that shelling to die because you slipped in the mud into a crater.
     
    #103 Fargin' Icehole, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  4. Sterling A

    Sterling A Well-Known Member

    I was just in New Orleans last month and spent 2 days (could of spent more) at the National World War 2 museum. Why would they put the National museum in New Orleans you might ask? Because Andrew Higgins is from NOLA and he invented he "Higgins boat" that you see Saving Private Ryan and was a very influential factor
    [​IMG]

    Anyways, they have so much Information that it's hard to even get it all in just 2 days actually. But the battle of Normandy (D Day) is the most influential battle ever.

    General Eisenhower was the Allied leader of the Western front, he was in control of when and where to strike of every allied power.

    He gathered all the generals of every country 2 weeks before D Day and mapped out every single offensive attack of D Day (there were 6 different landing spots for the battle along 60 miles of the beach, so not just Normandy). Canada played a big part of this battle along with English and Americans obv.

    But the weather was so severe and bad that 2 weeks before when Eisenhower gathered everyone their weatherman told them to wait 2 months before striking or we would fail. Eisenhower could only wait 2 weeks.

    Their was ZERO backup plan if D Day failed, Eisenhower himself said if this battle didnt work the Axis powers would of won WW2 and history would forever be changed, talk about pressure. A lot more to this story
     
    #104 Sterling A, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
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  5. Sterling A

    Sterling A Well-Known Member

    Also, this thread reminds me of old TMB threads that I guess got lost in the crash that you actually learned new things about history or life or whatever. Need more of these tbh

    "Have you ever OD'd"
    "Histories greatest photo's"
    "The Safe thread"
    Etc....
     
  6. Kirk Fogg

    Kirk Fogg "Tell them what they've won Olmec!"
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    Imagine being a German soldier at Stalingrad on 11/19/42, and you wake up to this sound, followed by 500K troops, 900 tanks, and 1400 airplanes (per history channel website)

     
  7. gus_chiggins

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    The acting in season one is hilarious. I do like hearing Sean Bean narrate, though
     
  8. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    Just because there wasn't a backup plan doesn't mean we wouldn't have made one.
     
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  9. Talking Head

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    If that hadn’t worked germany still would have lost WWII. But how far west does Russia advance if we don’t squeeze germany out of France? And does that devolve into another war between the west and the soviets?

    Also what role would the leftover Germans play in that war?
     
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  10. Sterling A

    Sterling A Well-Known Member

    Eisenhower did an interview and said that word for word. I'm not making that up
     
  11. HatterasJack

    HatterasJack Is your refrigerator running? It's Mike Hunt.
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    I don’t think he is challenging whether he said it. I think he is saying maybe if DDay was a failure the allies still could have regrouped and come up with a plan b. Obviously it would have changed the course of history, but maybe less than “we are all speaking German”.
     
  12. Jim Brockmire

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    The Battle and subsequent seige of Khe Sahn has to be up there.

    12,000 or more casualties alone on the US/ARVN side and it's anyone's guess as far as casualties for the North.
     
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  13. a.tramp

    a.tramp Insubordinate and churlish
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    Men in positions of authority vs. kids in the state of Pennsylvania. Been an absolute bloodbath for decades now.
     
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  14. Heavy Mental

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    I think in 'modern' warfare, WWI's Verdun has to be it:

    "The Battle of Verdun lasted for 303 days and became the longest and one of the most costly battles in human history. An estimate in 2000 found a total of 714,231 casualties, 377,231 French and 337,000 German, for an average of 70,000 casualties a month; other recent estimates increase the number of casualties to 976,000 during the battle, with 1,250,000 suffered at Verdun during the war."


    In ancient warfare, I'm going with Cannae. After being encircled, the Romans apparently dug holes to stick their heads in and suffocate, rather than be crushed to death by the double-envelopment. This was the inspiration for Game Of Throne's Battle of the Bastards.

    "Romans were enclosed in a pocket with no means of escape. The Carthaginians created a wall and began destroying them. Polybius wrote, "as their outer ranks were continually cut down, and the survivors forced to pull back and huddle together, they were finally all killed where they stood.As Livy described, "So many thousands of Romans were dying...

    Some, whom their wounds, pinched by the morning cold, had roused, as they were rising up, covered with blood, from the midst of the heaps of slain, were overpowered by the enemy. Some were found with their heads plunged into the earth, which they had excavated; having thus, as it appeared, made pits for themselves, and having suffocated themselves.Cowley claims that nearly six hundred legionaries were slaughtered each minute until darkness brought an end to the bloodletting. Only 14,000 Roman troops managed to escape, most of whom had cut their way through to the nearby town of Canusium.
    "
     
  15. Funshot Residue

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    The Rape of Nanking is right up there in terms of savagery. We don't think much about some of the hatred involved in conflicts that we're not part of, but China/Japan have a really disturbing military history. Less a battle and more a genocide, in many ways.
     
  16. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    The Battle of Carrhae was pretty crazy; probably Rome's second worst defeat. Crassus literally had no idea how to fight the Parthians.

    -He brought 7 legions (35,000 infantry), but only 4,000 light cavalry. He didn't have any long range skirmishers. He ignored his officers' warning not to cross the Euphrates immediately after Antioch.

    -Parthia fielded a smaller army of only cavalry, no infantry. 9,000 horse archers and 1,000 Cataphracts (probably the best cavalry in the world at the time).

    - The Parthians tried to intimidate the Romans as much as possible, beating drums and making a lot of noise. Their general, Surena, ordered all of his Cataphracts to cover their badass armor with regular clothes until the Romans could get a good look at them. Then they uncovered their armor en masse.

    This is what the Cataphracts looked like.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    - The horse archers laid into Crassus's legions incessantly. Every time the Romans made a sortie to take them out, they would retreat and fire behind them as they ran away.

    [​IMG]


    - Crassus thought they could just weather the storm until the horse archers ran out of arrows, but Surena literally had thousands of camels ferrying fresh supplies of arrows from the rear.

    - Every time the Romans went into Testudo formation to protect themselves from the arrows, the Cataphracts would rush in and inflict a ton of damage. When they broke Testudo to defend against a cavalry charge, the horse archers would return and resume firing.

    (Testudo formation)

    [​IMG]

    - Crassus waited til nightfall to sound a general retreat. His son and a bunch of their cavalry had already been killed, the Parthians put his son's head on a spear and waved it around during the battle for Crassus to see. The situation was so bad that the Romans left all their wounded behind.

    - The Parthian cavalry cut down the fleeing Romans all night long

    - It is reported that after the Parthians captured Crassus, they poured molten gold down his throat to punish him for his greed and arrogance. Kind of like Viserys in GoT.
     
    #116 Popovio, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  17. Oranjello

    Oranjello Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for starting this thread. Any good recommendations as to books about the Battle of Cannae/Second Punic War?
     
  18. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    "The Ghosts of Cannae" Robert O' Connell.
     
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  19. Wu

    Wu LKY did nothing wrong
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  20. Wu

    Wu LKY did nothing wrong
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    If HACKSAW RIDGE was anything close then I get it
     
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  21. miles

    miles All I know is my gut says, maybe
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    Borodino. 70000 casualties in 12 hours of fighting. If you were just wounded it was basically a death sentence because everyone was so low on supplies.

    The French "won" but didn't gain anything whatsoever for it.
     
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  22. soulfly

    soulfly Well-Known Member
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    Just found out that 20 medals of honor were issued after the wounded knee massacre. Jesus.
     
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  23. Talking Head

    Talking Head The Bag Man
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    Imagine being a French soldier in verdun, and having to go into no man’s land. Again...and again...and again. What’s that like?!? You know I’m no historian and no fan of will durant, but in his 1968 book Lessons of History he states, quote “it sucked dick.”
     
    #123 Talking Head, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  24. Artoo

    Artoo Ah Skywalker, Missed you I have.
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    Lipp and his battle to catch up in the Trump thread
     
  25. Doc Louis

    Doc Louis Well-Known Member
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    Cataphracts were op'd, just like in ages of empires
     
    #125 Doc Louis, Aug 18, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
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  26. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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    Stalin seriously considered continuing west after the American withdrawal from Europe to support the invasion of Japan. He would’ve taken the whole continent had he done so.
     
  27. Jim Brockmire

    Jim Brockmire I think you're wildly underestimating heroin.
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    Having researched it a little, it appears that they were handed out much more gratuitously prior to WW1.

    Right around the outbreak of WW1 congress established a board of review that revoked the medal from something like 1000 individuals over them not having been awarded deservingly.
     
  28. billdozer

    billdozer Well-Known Member
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    Or watch the Okinawa sequences from The Pacific
     
  29. dome foam

    dome foam ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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    Verdun

    next?
     
  30. duc15

    duc15 Hey Nong Man
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    I know it’s been mentioned but the carnage at Verdun is ridiculous
     
  31. bignate50

    bignate50 Well-Known Member
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    Iirc the only way to invade the Japanese mainland was right through Tokyo Bay because of the terrain. And the Japs knew it too, basically telling every mother/women/child if they took a marine with them for the homeland they’d die a hero
     
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  32. Kirk Fogg

    Kirk Fogg "Tell them what they've won Olmec!"
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    For a HS Freshman history class, this is a pretty impressive teaching of the battle of cannae

     
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  33. Frank Martin

    Frank Martin tough love makes better posters
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    Yeah there was an entire infantry regiment in the civil war that got MOHs as a reenlistment inducement.
     
  34. * J Y *

    * J Y * TEXAS
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    I get so rustled at the French cowards/surrender meme.
     
  35. Bruce Wayne

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    Ya due to the geography of the islands it was obvious to the Japanese where the Allies would need to land and as a result were able to accurately stage large numbers of troops for the defense of Kyushu & Honshu

    Just the sheer numbers involved on both sides had this gone down was extraordinary

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall?wprov=sfti1
     
  36. CF3234

    CF3234 Fan of: Bandwagons
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    Battle of Schrute Farms
     
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  37. Fudd Bezos

    Fudd Bezos 258 ventilators per hour
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  38. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    So OP said intense which I take as short in duration and where both sides are taking casualties/the battle is back and forth. With those parameters, the answer is Borodino
     
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  39. One Two

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    World War I has to be the most brutal war of all time.

    You've got the emergence of machine guns, tanks, sophisticated artillery, weaponized gas, etc, but overall the battlefield strategy still hasn't evolved much past lineup across from each other and blow each other to pieces.

    Apart from the physical brutality, trench warfare took quite a mental toll as well

    [​IMG]
     
  40. bigred77

    bigred77 Well-Known Member
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    Bird vs Magic
     
  41. Jake Barnes

    Jake Barnes LOOK AT THAT LASER!!!
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    I remember reading that some egregiously high percentage of the casualties were from diseases.
     
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  42. gus_chiggins

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    I guess I’d have to say Verdun. Solely because of the machine guns and gas. In an incredibly close second is a number of Civil War battles. Unspeakable slaughter with 30% casualties in battle after battle for three consecutive years.
     
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  43. Jake Barnes

    Jake Barnes LOOK AT THAT LASER!!!
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    This was, I believe, by design. Inflict maximum casualties to discourage morale.
     
  44. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    The U.S lost more men to influenza than to actual fighting.
     
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  45. gus_chiggins

    gus_chiggins AND STAY OUT OF THE WOOLWORTH
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    It was. Same as WW1. Population wise, the south was outnumbered almost 5:1, so they never really had a chance. If not for sheer incompetence of the Northern high command, the war would’ve been over in about a year or so. Europe was on the verge of entering the war on the side of the south until Gettysburg. After that, it was a matter of time.
     
  46. pearl

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    Posting for later
     
  47. Pile Driving Miss Daisy

    Pile Driving Miss Daisy It angries up the blood
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    supposedly guys who couldn't change their socks for god knows how long were pulling out chunks of flesh when they removed them. There's no doubt that disease took an a tremendous toll there.
     
  48. Popovio

    Popovio The poster formerly known as "MouseCop"
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    I think we're sleeping on some naval battles.

    - Savo Island, Aug 9th, 1942. Gudalcanal

    IJN engages two U.S fleet detachments at 2:30 a.m, from 3,000 freaking yards away. We're talking point blank range, in almost complete darkness, with 14 in.,356mm gun batteries and torpedoes. The fighting was so close that at one point, the USS Laffey missed colliding with the Japanese battleship Hiei by about 20 feet. The Hiei couldn't even depress it's gun batteries low enough to hit the U.S ships.


    [​IMG]



    IJN destroyed 4 heavy cruisers, damaged 2 destroyers, and killed 1,000 U.S sailors.

    You get a quick glimpse of it in HBO's "The Pacific".

     
  49. Wu

    Wu LKY did nothing wrong
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  50. Sterling A

    Sterling A Well-Known Member

    my grandad fought at Guadalcanal for 14 months and NEVER would talk to us about it while he was alive :twocents: