Again, think about how homosexual couples interact. Neither of them has a role applied to them from the beginning of their encounter. One of them will ultimately take the role of gatekeeper, but it isn't applied to them from the very beginning.
DAE find it suspicious that we're having this discussion on a day when BTH randomly shows up. Frankly, I'm surprised that he's not in here going HAM on some men's rights
Uh I will defer to RoyalShocker and bertwing but I am pretty sure there are bears and twinks from the get go
Ok, apply that to a situation in which two people are intoxicated and tell me how you'd like the rule/law to actually function.
how many times have you had sex while heavily intoxicated? how many times did you have an actual conversation about the percent chances of the girl having regret the following day, prior to this intoxicated sex? gonna go out on a limb and say that no TMBer has ever discussed the potential regret by their partner prior to having sex with them, once the person said yes. Even when dead sober. honestly that would be an even weirder conversation to have when NOT intoxicated. the girl would either probably think you had previously raped someone or just think you had some ridiculous self-esteem issues in the bedroom. edit: read your and jake's follow up. questions answered. at age 25+ it's easier to have the "drunk as fuck" = sex isn't a great idea outlook than it is when you're younger.
That doesn't really clear up the initial discussion. Getting a lawyer and calling the cops doesn't necessarily help you in the end. Generally the female is given the benefit of the doubt as the victim. The damage is usually done even if you're found to be not guilty. A female claiming you raped them doesn't really go away regardless of the outcome. That's just my opinion.
Dude, if someone says no, it's rape. Either one of them. I've never said anything in this conversation that is different from that. My main point is the shame that comes with sex after the fact. The male does not feel the same societal shame as the woman due to her role as gatekeeper. That complicates shit a lot. Without the societal pressure that comes with those norms, a lot of these problems go away.
The Duke Lacrosse guys are doing just fine. You are correct that getting a lawyer and calling the cops doesn't protect you from having sex with a nearly unconscious person. That's why you shouldn't do it.
Bears and twinks aren't relevant to sexual roles, they refer to the physical features of the individual in question. For example, bertwing is a fat and hairy old bear, but that doesn't mean he can't be a bottom. He just literally looks like a big gay bear. He actually proves the rule because he's a bottom bear. What that means is that he's physically defined as a bear AND he likes to accept wieners in his butt. I regularly tear his ass apart. He's really gay and gross.
Duke lacrosse players getting blackmailed by a hooker... totally sums up the situations we are discussing.
It's fairly simple in my mind. If you don't want to have some rape issue occur after some drunken encounter, the best way to avoid that is to get clear and definite consent. That's prob best accomplished while not being completely hammered. If you're more interested in fucking someone and/or not having a weird conversation than entering a possibly ambiguous area w/r/t to consent then disregard.
Tell one of your female friends that is a middle school teacher to do this on her phone and tell me if she looks like you just asked her the square root of something... Also - none of your coworkers not having your phone number is a little strange to me but to each their own
I think the problem lies far more with binge drinking for example than the norms you're describing. It would probably be a much easier fix to tackle the former as well.
"Or she really didn't want to have sex, but the guy has been told his whole life he's supposed to try to get some. He's either "successful" that night or he "failed" to get some. So he tries a little too hard that night and he technically rapes her, and now both of their lives are fucked." Come on, bro. You presented us with qualified rape while positing a binary form of consent. Still friends?
Yeah but then your buddies just laugh at you and it's a big joke. It's not the same with girls, and my main point is that it should be the same. You fucked some ugly dude, big whoop. Go get a better one tonight if you want, or don't, who gives a shit.
Look, I've boned a lot of fat chicks in my time but, as far as I can remember, I've never fornicated anybody
I think part of the reason I've avoided drinking for the most part is that it takes my sex addiction and multiplies it by probably ten. The things I did to my dear Katherine when we would drink probably weren't even acceptable in Medieval times.
If I'm a college age dude i'm only having sex sober in my room, having the girl sign a consent form with a scanned copy of her license showing she's of age, and recording said coitus on camera with her verbal permission to film coitus at the beginning of the recording. She will blow into a breathalyzer before coitus showing that her BAC is .000 and she will describe on camera what type of sex we will be having before hand as so there is no confusion once coitus takes place that anything other than what was discussed was not originally consentual. I will be drowning in pussy.
Merica 's gay couple hypothetical doesn't really work since the demographic that shames females for sex also shames all homosexuals in existence.
I have no idea how these two statements are consistent. How can somebody say no while simultaneously not having the exclusive right to say yes or no?
Homosexuals have zero shame in their sex life. Oddly enough I'm friends with a lot of gay people. I'm practically gay, you guys.
No I meant that he raped her. Probably should have left out the technical part. This is the most common form of rape on college campuses. The guy goes too far. It's not typically a Steve Lattimer type situation. I'm saying that society encourages him to try, and a lot of times guys end up trying too hard. But it's still rape.
Yeah no reason they shouldn't be able to do that but that's on them for thinking it's easier to have children call/text them instead of getting a text message in their online mailbox or "email" as the kids say.
I think you're putting a bit too much blame on society. I think most guys are trying to have sex for their penus' sake.
I think most guys get horny when they're drinking and want to have sex with a girl flirting with them. Society never really influenced my dick.
The aggressor is kind of an implied yes, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to fuck the other person. But sure, if the aggressor decides he/she doesn't want to do it any more, then they can stop.
And I think most girls would be trying to have sex for their pussy's sake, if they weren't so worried about being called a slut tomorrow morning.
LOL at "The Duke Lacrosse guys are doing just fine" being an example of a false rape accusation not sticking with you.