Yeah, I'm not sure how a guy who is almost certainly the second best SS of all time can really be overrated. People might emphasize the streak too much when talking about his career, but he's comfortably one of the 30-40 best position players ever.
Numbers are pretty damned good. he only played 21 years which is average for most guys with his numbers.
As far as underrated, I think Pujols is an interesting answer. With all the talk about Cabrera the last 5 years, it's almost like people ignored that Pujols came before him and was a better hitter during his STL stretch. He's already at 90 fWAR, and it's like everyone forgot about him. Bagwell is another one. I think people focus a lot on the idea that Bagwell isn't in the HOF because of PED suspicion, but I really just think voters don't get how good he was overall. He could hit, field and run at a position with a bunch of slugs. He just doesn't have the longevity of others where he could post elite counting stats.
Mike Schmidt wasn't overrated either. I think he's propwely rated. I think someone mentioned him. I think the reason Nolan is overrated is because he's mentioned with the best pitchers ever. He's probably in the 15-20 range. Imo.
I've never heard people underrate Pujols because of Cabrera, he's pretty clearly a better player. His contract and the 2013 season are the only negative thing I've heard people talk about.
Not saying people think Pujols wasn't good or anything. I just think people have right now kind of forgotten about how dominant he was in STL. I'm sure they'll talk him up plenty when he's done and has all his counting stats lined up with the greats. Just more of a right now thing where his dominant run seems so long ago when it really wasn't.
Also, is it possible that JD Drew actually was underrated? All that talk of him being some shitty bust, but he actually ended up having a very solid career.
If this were true, wouldn't Bobby Thompson or Joe Carter be in the HOF? Bill James once wrote that "Bill Mazeroski's defensive statistics are probably the most impressive of any player at any position". Many enlightened baseball thinkers would tell you that he redefined the way the position is played. He holds one record in particular (double plays turned as a 2B, 1706) that I don't think will ever be broken, even in this new day and age of defensive shifts. The nearest active player is Robinson Cano who is 600+ DP's shy at age 32 - Maz retired at age 35.
JD Drew was substantially underrated. so much bust talk that he never seemed shake. he was one of the most up and down guys but 14 years with an average fWAR of 3.2 is damn good.
We're not really disagreeing. My main thought before I wrote that was, when Cabrera was winning MVPs and the Triple Crown, media people were asking questions like "is he (or can he become) the best RH hitter ever." That was right off Pujols' time with the Cards, and I thought that was really odd. Like everyone already moved on to the next thing after Pujols.
JD Drew came at the wrong time, right before people were finally getting on board with RBI being dumb. He had a very good career. That said, it sounds like he was a really frustrating player to watch on a daily basis over six months, and he never played for my team so maybe that has some merit. Can't argue with the total numbers he put up, though.
Yeah, I hear you there. We've discussed before but you won't find a bigger Miggy fan on the planet than me. but, that was still unwarranted and unfair to Pujols.
Yeah, PEDs are really the only thing holding him back at this point. I personally think he was on them, but I think PED guys should be in the Hall. But Bagwell was basically a five-tool first baseman, which is pretty much unheard of.
My cousin used to play in the majors and said that he always wanted to have J.D. Drew's approach to batting. Whether it was the ninth inning with two outs of Game 7 in the World Series or a throwaway at bat in a blowout on a getaway day in mid-July, Drew had the same approach. He refused to let the outside circumstances affect his gameplan on at-bats. He wasn't chasing a 3-2 pitch no matter what.
Vin Scully threw something out last night on his broadcast that I thought was cool. Before the 1999 MLB Draft, the Dodgers held an open workout at Dodger Stadium. One of the kids that worked out for them that day went on to be drafted by the Dodgers in the 6th round that year and he has had a pretty good career (Shane Victorino). Another of the guys, an outfielder from a small high school in Oregon went undrafted, but after a long and very successful career is today considered a virtual lock for the hall of fame... Spoiler Troy Polamalu
so I was trying to think about who to post and my mind went to troy tulowitzki because he was good at being a SS in a non-fancy way and a great hitter. I'm not sure after looking at his stats that he is underrated, but he has posted a fWAR of 5.2-5.6 in 6 of 9 seasons. that is like, otherworldly consistency.
It will once someone says that A Rod, Bonds, or Clemens were overrated because of PEDs. Surprised it hasn't already happened tbh
This guy had some pretty solid years in late nineties/early 2000's http://m.mlb.com/video/v20087361/ladmil-green-has-monster-day-at-the-plate/?query=shawn+green
Half his career is amazing. He was a .500 pitcher for the other half. I know his career was cut short. He had a 5 year run that is right up there with the best. But the first half of his career is barely average.
The year Gehrig drove in 175 RBI's he came up to the plate 60 times after Ruth just cleared the bases. He might have had close to 200 that year.
I think we're about to reach the point of the thread where the terms overrated and underrated start to lose meaning.
He is getting his due now but pretty amazing the career Beltre has had. Remarkable run he has had the last 5 seasons after most wrote him off based on his time in Seattle.