I was there this weekend to pickup my shipment. Their 2013's are just starting to come of age, so I'm not surprised you weren't overly impressed. Their 2012's sold me on the club, and their 2014's are closer to those. 2014 overall is a hotter year closer to 2012 and 2009 which makes the wines much more approachable early but have a tougher time cellaring for a longer time.
When I got married we were either going to have <50 or >250. There was no in between. My wife has a million aunts and uncles and cousins. By the time we got through just family we were at like 90 before any friends or parents friends.
How many days out in wine country are you planning on spending? If it's more than 1 I'd give you a few different area's to hit up with recommendations in each area to maximize your reach.
It is still a ratio that surprised me with that much beef ordered. We did an outdoor wedding in July so I'm sure that had an impact. It was all at one venue so we made the Prosecco available as guests arrived and they were free to take it to their seats. Who turns down pre-wedding Prosecco?
Forgive the dumb question, but I'm trying to up my cuntiness. In a hotter year, you don't want to cellar those vintages too long, and the opposite for a more mild year? Also, we tasted and purchased several 2012s and were told that was a banner year and some great wine (which it was), so is the hotter climate better for Pinot Noir up there? Have you learned all this just by trial and error or is there some good reading material that I could get into that helps expand the wine knowledge?
I was more seeing if you felt strongly about something in particular. If so, nothing wrong with having a groom's stash. I sure plan to.
Not a dumb question at all, for OR pinot the longer and hotter a summer is the more fruit is dropped resulting in a more ripe fruit that is ultimately harvested and used in production. The result is a wine typically in the 14%-15% alcohol content with a lot more fruit in the flavor profile making it more approachable as a younger wine. 2011 was really the last colder summer we had recently, and alcohol was more in the 12% to 13% range and it took several years of cellaring before the fruit and overall flavor profile became more approachable. 2013 was a really weird year for OR Pinot. It was an incredibly hot summer that had a 4 week cold snap/rain storm hit right in the middle of harvest, so for the people who picked fruit earlier they ended up with big fruity Pinot's. For those who picked later, which was most of the wine producres, you end up with wines that are closer to 2011 and I'd recommend 4-5 years minimum in the cellar before opening to give them a change to show. The nice part about this is 2011 OR Pinots can be had at a great discount since that has the perception of being a down year, same with 2013. If you are familiar with these wines, you know to buy them at the additional discount now, let them sit a couple more years then enjoy amazing OR Pinot at a fraction of the price. To me, these cooler years create a more reasonable approximation of what Pinot should really taste like, more delicate and nuanced, than the bigger fruit years which can be almost Cabesque sometimes. As for cellaring, the more fruit(sugar) and alcohol in the wine the less that flavor structure holds up over time. I always like cellaring a couple years if possible, but I've worked through a good chunk of my 2012's already since they aren't really going to appreciably improve with more age at this point. My 2013's are all laying down still, and I tasted some 2015's recently and that is going to be a KILLER year.
Specifically to this question, the day after I turned 21 my dad came down to college and took me out to his favorite wine bar in Eugene. The first bottle we opened was a 2002 Bergstrom Arcus Vineyard Pinot, a $90 pinot. Arcus is Archery Summits premier vineyard, and Bergstrom at the time made better wines with their grapes then they did which is why they stopped selling to him a couple years later. That pretty much ruined me or got me interested in wine depending on how you look at it from then on. He came down regularly for wine nights and I built a base palette through those experiences. From there I am somewhat active in the wine community up here talking to a variety of winemakers which keeps my OR knowledge base pretty strong and I try to taste a lot of different options. I have a couple books which i found helpful, can't remember the names now but will pull them tonight and post the rec's.
Awesome, thanks for posting I actually looked at what books are recommended for people that are attempting to become the first level sommelier and they can be had for a reasonable price on Amazon. I hinted strongly to the gf that I wanted to read them during the holidays but she missed my cues that these would be great Christmas gifts. The two that were recommended seemed very low level/introductory
To add on that thought, the natural preservatives within red wine that give it the "structure" to age are tannins and acid. As grapes ripen, they gain more sugar and become less acidic. Winemakers pick grapes based on physiological ripeness which they determine based on sugar levels, tannin ripening and flavor development. Longer hang time in the fall helps the grapes develop more flavor. In warm vintages, the process happens much faster so the flavor ripeness tends to occur at higher sugar levels in the grapes which leads to higher alcohol (the yeast have more food to eat and convert to alcohol) that have less acidity. Speaking very broadly (since there are definitely exceptions) that is one big difference between CA and OR pinots--the CA tend to have fruit that is more ripe so the alcohol is higher and related to that the body is thicker (think skim milk vs. 2% milk) with riper fruit flavors, lower acidity, etc. So within different Oregon vintages those that are warmer or more California-like are going to produce that style of wine and its ready right away because it doesn't have the tannins that can take a few years in bottle to soften and it has the bigger flavors and alcohol. But they won't age as well because they lack some of the structural elements (tannin & acid). There is ample to read on the subject out there or learn from visiting wineries. From a personal experience standpoint, I've noticed that Oregon wines in cold vintages tend to add body as they age. Before 2011 there was 2007 which was massively panned by critics as thin (low body), acidic and tannic. However, by about 2012 the wines had seemed to come in to better balance as the tannins softened, the wines felt a little fuller in your mouth and it cut some of the acidic bite. It ended up being a good vintage if you had faith and patience. The wheelhouse for Oregon though is when you can get weather like 2008 where it is warm for much of the summer so ripeness isn't a problem but with an extended Indian Summer that lets the grapes ripen slowly and really develop flavors while maintaining acid and moderate tannins. Here is a little blog on what helps wines age. http://winefolly.com/tutorial/4-traits-of-wines-that-age-well/
Thanks, I'll try to find a bottle. Here's what I'm thinking: 22 cases/264 bottles will be 0.66 per guest. This gives me a little cushion over the actuals from Rabid just in case, I will keep or return anything that is left over. At this level, I’d like to budget an average of no more than $20/bottle. As selections, I’ll have a heavier red (served with dinner and at the bar), a lighter red, a heavier white (served with dinner and at the bars), lighter white, and sparkling wine. Given my budget, seems prudent to stay out of France and Italy altogether and probably CA as well. I’ll make sure to taste everything (if I haven’t already) that I plan on serving before placing order, so I’ll probably meet with the local seller this week. But initial thoughts: Heavier red – As I mentioned before, I want something drinkable and approachable to everyone so I was thinking of staying away from a huge and tannic cab. My initial thought was a GSM blend, perhaps Rotie Cellars Vin de Pays if I can get enough of it. Maybe I can find a Syrah from John Duval in that range if I look hard enough. Another option that I’ve liked and fits the budget is Verso Rosso Salento. Perhaps a Malbec could work as well. Lighter red – my initial thought was New Zealand Pinot Noir given the price limitations – I haven’t been impressed with many bottles from Oregon that I’ve personally had in that range so thought there may be better value someplace else. Heavier white – no clue on this. Chardonnay I guess? Lighter white – was thinking of maybe an Australian rhone blend (had hermit crab a marsanne viognier blend in the $15 range recently and liked it pretty well). Although is this in between bold and light enough where I could get away with just one wine? Otherwise I guess maybe a sauvignon blanc or dry Riesling of some sort. Sparkling – I’ve had and like the Roederer estates brut and I could almost certainly fit it into the budget, but I would imagine there are better cava and prosecco options available. I’ll just have to taste some and figure it out. Anything from the finger lakes worth looking into here? Does that make sense? Obviously still have some work to do, but I think I have a better idea now. Thanks to all for the help.
This is true. And if you can get a chance to get in early on 2016 I'd recommend you do it. 2016 just named Oregon with the best crop in the country. 2015 was basically one of the hottest years in Oregon history. I imagine the reds out in Eastern Washington/Columbia Gorge are going to be some of the biggest yet. I haven't tried a lot from the region, but because of the heat down here I imagine some of the reds from British Columbia will be some amazing bang for your buck, especially in a region as up and coming as that.
Malbec may be where I'd look for best bang for your buck. You can probably save on the white side by getting a $15-$17 of New Zealand Sauv Blanc and go a bit higher on the red side. NZ Sauv Blanc is generally a crowd pleaser. Also, I was talking to the owner of my wine store a couple weeks back and said flat out "cheap American wine sucks". Suggesting that there are better French options on the bargain rack.
You don't have to totally avoid France. You can get some good Cotes du Rhone for $12-$15 per bottle and buying by the case would get you 10% off at a lot of places around here. I really like the Rotie VdP but it isn't cheaper than its french counterparts and I think they only do 120 cases total production which is why it is limited to wine club members. As mentioned, Argentina Malbec would be another option at a similar price point. As far as Oregon Pinot at that price point, Erath would probably be my selection. Its widely available and fairly consistent from vintage to vintage and about as good as you'll find at that price point. We served Firesteed at our wedding--similar price point and quality--simply because that was what was easily available from the distributor. That sauv blanc we served was Veramonte from Chile. It is $7-10 and is an absolute steal at that price. It bridges the tropical notes from NZ with the grassier herbal notes from France. I'm not saying it is better than either but it is a better value.
You might have to taste through a few but in the lighter red category you can get Rioja Crianza for $8-12 that drinks really well. You can get Beaujolais around that $15 level too, maybe cheaper, but I'd also be sampling those.
Very non-cunty time, but I've spoken my praises for Trader Joe's wine before at such a cheap price point. It's been around for a while, but their 2015 TJ's Reserve Pinot grigio (I think that's the one) was from the Willamette Valley and I'm a very big fan of that. Less than $8 a piece too
Excellent advice. Thanks, guys. Erath is my go-to grocery store Pinot so I'll probably try to do something else. I do always have a couple bottles of it laying around though
I think you might want to consider a Chianti M'ark Pepperonio. Affordable, drinkable and not intimidating.
My old roommate/one of best friends worked at firesteed and montinore during his college internships. /random story
Which is probably the best for a large party/wedding (easy drinking, fruity, table wine). Unless it's a small group of people hat actively drink wine they won't appreciate the good stuff.
I tend to agree, but I also eloped and bought the witnesses some of my favorite chateauneuf du pape bottles. so tifwiw
I think I've only had the merlot but yeah those black box wines are actually decent for what they are
Hey guys! Just chiming in on this thread as I am slowly, but surely, learning to appreciate good wines. Admittedly I know only a very small amount and likely don't notice all the true complexities but I do enjoy wine. So, just joining in the discussion.
Wine guy this weekend strongly recommended at least one CA cab and also said I should go CA Pinot at that price point. Think he's right on the cab since more guests will be familiar with that than a gsm from anywhere. Pinot...we will have to see. I'm not accepting anything with more fruit than I personally enjoy. Either way, I now have a bunch of lower-end wine to try.
They have 3 wines: Syrah, Grenache & Tempranillo. I was only allocated the Tempranillo. I was really hoping for the Syrah. Quirky and kind of interesting labels.
If it were me, I'd listen to the wine guy because he deals with this stuff all the time. It's your wedding but you won't be able to drink much and better to please the masses. I love GSM blends but I think most people will walk up to the bar and ask for a Cab. Malbec has been pretty popular at events I've been to recently....probably for cost purposes.
Yep. I'm taking his advice there without question. Only remaining decision is whether I enjoy the Pinot he suggested well enough or whether I keep looking there. Here are the wines I'm considering and have a bottle of each to taste. I believe all vintages are 2014. Cab: Cult Cabernet http://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2553904 Rock & Vine Cabernet http://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2319602 Pinot Noir: Carmel Road Monterrey Pinot Noir https://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2332191 Cambria Pinot Noir: https://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2253774 Whites: Bouchon Chardonnay http://www.cellartracker.com/m/wines/2129550 Castellargo Sassi pinot Grigio https://www.vivino.com/wineries/castellargo/wines/sassi-delle-venezie-pinot-grigio-dry-white-9999 Murphy Goode Fume Sauvignon Blanc http://www.winemag.com/buying-guide/murphy-goode-2014-the-fume-sauvignon-blanc-north-coast Most of these seem kinda sketchy, especially the cabs and first pinot...I'll give them a run though. Maybe this is as good as $20 a bottle can get you?
No. Has anybody had the Drew Bledsoe wines? http://www.doubleback.com/ I've had others from the original winemaker (Chris Figgins -- Leonetti Cellars, Figgins) and they're pretty big and oaky cabs.
It is from Thomas Keller's Ad Hoc at Home. First you make the short ribs: http://momofukufor2.com/2010/03/ad-hoc-braised-beef-short-ribs-recipe/ The next night you can make the stroganoff: http://momofukufor2.com/2010/04/thomas-kellers-ad-hoc-beef-stroganoff-recipe/ On the short ribs, I'm not quite as anal as Keller. I use my base recipe which is about 80% in common with his. It is almost the exact same ingredients but, for instance, I don't do the parchment paper lid and my braising liquid is roughly 75% red wine and 25% beef stock instead of taking an extra 1 hr step of cutting more aromatics, reducing red wine with the aromatics to make a more concentrated wine that then gets combined with more beef stock, etc. I made the short ribs his way once and I didn't think the extra steps were worth it.
I'd echo this - very consistent with my experience. I'd also add that the stroganoff recipe can be used for other forms of "leftover" beef as well.
There are 35 options when you filter Wine Enthusiast for Sauvignon Blanc <$25 and >90 points in the last two vintages. I think you can find something much better than an 86 that fits your budget. And their prices are inflated. Whitehaven I've seen for $17. http://www.winemag.com/varietals/sa...=2015,2014&page=1&sort_by=retail&sort_dir=asc
Got married 2 years ago (much smaller) - i'd say just get what you want to drink, and it will fall in line. Our wedding was in Russian River, so we had a lot of good options from the place we had it at. We had a white that the wife liked, and I came down to two reds that I liked. Since her parents were paying, I chose the more expensive option haha. If you're getting married in Michigan - look at Mawby for sparkling. I think they do some really nice wines, and at good prices.
I've had and while I remember enjoying it, it wasn't so remarkable that I can remember specifically any real details.
Does anyone regularly use any of the flash deal sites/apps? I downloaded WTSO a few weeks ago and have found their deals to be very inconsistent to terms of the stated vs. actual discount.
I was using Lot 21 for a while but I got pissed when they shipped something without asking and a bottle of wine froze because it was on a UPS truck over a long very cold weekend in MN. They gave me store credit so I used that and quit. I didn't think the deals were all that great either. They were good in the recession when good wineries had to move inventory but in a stronger economy the stuff they were getting was way less interesting. I do use Full Pull Wines out of Seattle because it gets me access to a bunch of wines that are hard to find in MN but their prices are full retail. I also use JJ Buckley primarily for French and Italian wines because their prices and access are way better than I can get locally.
I've bought from WTSO, Last Call, and Full Pull. Also on the garagiste list (they sound shady AF though and I haven't bought). Just make sure you research anything you're thinking about buying from any of them since as you mentioned the list prices are bullshit and often the reviews also. None seem to offer any deep discounts but it seems like you can save a buck here and there.
I've never bought from garagiste. From message board fodder, some people really love them and think they have great deals and then there are those that swore off doing business with John because they felt like he screwed them on a "blind case" deal he put together for a steep discount.
i live like 40 minutes from there really need to go scope them out, agreed that its surprisingly good for the price