The arms race is different now than it was when we added Louisville. Back then it was just about adding decent athletic departments to survive. If the Big 12 folds or is reduced to Conference USA lite I’m not sure there’s as much pressure to expand just for expansions sake. But what do I know? We are pretty limited in our options so long as nobody tries to bolt the ACC.
The regular season Clemson/ND rated higher than any regular season or conference championship game. If we could convince ND to play 3 more ACC games we could go to a division less conference. It would allow more flexibility with conference scheduling and ND would have four games to use on their priority OOC matchups. I don’t envy Phillips right now, his job depends on bringing ND on as a full member.
If we cut the deal with the PAC12 and added Navy/Georgetown as 16 hybrid, ND gets to keep USC as their cross conference opponent and Navy as their divisional opponent. We obviously need to kiss their asses to make this work.
ACC isnt cutting a deal with the PAC, if the PAC does a deal it will be the B1G. The schools and leagues are close
Some other options to consider that I’ve seen discussed throughout the ether: -Unequal revenue sharing to keep the schools that actually try to win happy -Downsizing conference size so that the included schools get more cash. Would losing Wake, Duke or BC football really hurt negotiating power that much? —requiring a minimum investment in football spending per year or over 5 years I say all this knowing NC State is one of the schools that spends the least on football and would likely be in danger if any of those things were truly considered.
wake duke and bc have no business being in the conference. i don’t think legally you can kick them out but the problems are solved fairly easily with those anchors gone.
Of all the things I can imagine, the ACC kicking out any North Carolina school isn’t one of them. The conference will dissolve first.
Unfortunately for them all that matters now is how much will ESPN or Fox pay a conference. If Wake doesn’t add to negotiating power, what’s the point of their existence in the ACC? It’s gross to consider but all this realignment is forcing that reality.
not really relevant in the current landscape or moving forward. they add nothing at all to the conference that the other nc schools don’t offer tenfold
it won’t happen. unc leadership is too stubborn and loyal to support something like that and without them on board, the rest of the conference isn’t gonna kick out other nc schools nor will the state legislature let it happen anyways they should tho!
I genuinely wonder if Texas/OU was a real option in 2012. Legit people say they reached out and the ACC didn’t go for it.
My impression at the time was that neither the ACC nor UT would budge on the Longhorn Network issue and it died on the vine.
Also think Swofford fucked up adding TV markets and “academics” over football programs in 2004 and 2012. Louisville and WVU should have been in the first wave of expansion, along with Miami and VT, and maybe our ESPN contract would be a little fatter these days.
What’s interesting about that is the conference was against adding VT. There was a threatened lawsuit that forced them to accept VT (I don’t know the details of said lawsuit). But at the time every conference was keenly interested in adding TV markets. I don’t think there was a soul in a position of power who predicted the media related impacts that have happened.
Getting ND to commit till 2036 was good but it really makes you think A. They wont join B. The conference is willing to be patient and not expand.
Not sure what the answer is but getting close to $30M less per year than the SEC and B1G would make competing at the highest level extraordinarily tough. Standing still isn't going to get it done
we're all on that wonderful journey called slow death until teams are able to scurry off to one of the inevitable sec/b1g super conferences
that's not really true at all, the conference was heavily in favor of VT. expansion is advanced by 3/4 of the conference voting in the affirmative, VT had 6 schools yes (Clemson, GT, FSU, Wake, NCSU, Maryland) and 3 no (Duke, UNC, UVA). the lawsuits were filed by every Big East school against the ACC because the ACC was trying to tear the Big East apart and those schools weren't going to let the ACC do it for free. the initial trio, because Swofford's brain was without wrinkles, was Miami/BC/Cuse. eventually information was leaked that the only thing keeping VT out was UVA and the governor of Virginia brought the Hoos to their knees and forced them to fall in line and they bent immediately and voted VT in and told Cuse to fuck off. VT rescinded the lawsuit at this point, NCSU came in last minute to veto BC, and that's why 2004 worked out like it did and why BC joined a year later after another vote. all of that happened because FSU, GT, UVA, and Clemson were pissing their pants worried about being under Tobacco Road's thumb and thought if they could get some good football schools to join (which again, smoothbrain Swofford went for BC and Cuse here) then Tobacco Road wouldn't have as much influence. knowing what we know about how essentially every ACC football program looked for the next decade makes the whole thing really fucking funny.
lol this is complete bullshit - the only reason VT entered the conversation was because of Mark Warner and John Casteen wanting VT in the conference, they weren't anyone's choice over Syracuse and being held back by UVA. Once Warner and Casteen convinced/forced/pushed the UVA BOV to take a VT-or-no-expansion vote, UVA got exactly what it asked for because Duke/UNC were voting against any expansion scenario (and three "no"s were enough to kill any plan). UVA and Warner forced the other schools to swap VT in, it's not like they were they were the initial selection but UVA was the roadblock.
let's clarify: I said they weren't the initial pick but when VT was brought up as an option, those aforementioned six schools were fine with it and only UVA, Duke, and UNC stood against with UVA ultimately capitulating. also, UNC was not against all expansion but Miami had to be a part of it, Duke was pretty much alone in camp "no changes". nobody actually gave a shit about Cuse being in there, only Swofford and his lust for new TV markets (NYC college football market is a huge one, obviously, as noted by the millions that have always watched Cuse football because there's nothing else to do Saturdays in NYC). UVA didn't want VT in the ACC at all because, well, exactly what happened for all but one of the years since VT's joined the ACC.
I think we should call Alabama, LSU, Georgia, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State and invite them to be a part of our conference. Let them say no. Can't hurt to ask.
To be clear, Notre Dame would also be invited if they delivered an essay of no less than 500 words explaining why what they did was wrong.
sure, but my point was it wasn't like the ACC wanted VT more than the others and UVA was standing in the way. the UVA president and some of the board were always for the idea and actively worked to convince (with the governor) the rest of the BOV to come around on the idea. The AD and obviously most fans were against it, though of course
nobody really cared who else came beyond Miami, I was just ultimately responding to that post that was "VT was never wanted and used a lawsuit to mysteriously turn the tide of opinion" when the reality was that most of the conference was fine with VT. which again, given how Miami football went post-2003 the whole expansion thing was hilarious. it was an obvious inevitability and if the ACC hadn't started to act then they'd have been even further behind the 8-ball down the line but man, hedging your conference's future on Miami vs FSU in perpetuity was hilarious. yes but we actively have stopped you from winning the Coastal and potentially the ACC several times, that was what you'd have avoided.
It is wild to think about telling someone in 2003 that Miami would join the ACC but they would have fewer ACC titles than Wake Forest over the next 18 years.
i think something that is very critical and not discussed often enough about the past expansion is.... fuck maryland. they can rot in hell.
I vividly remember running into an acquaintance who was a Miami fan shortly after beating them in '04 and how violently angry he got in an instant at my lighthearted jab don't even remember the guy's name, but I've thought about how he'd be handling their downfall often over the years
I can’t wait for their smugness when they cast the deciding vote on whatever beggar school from the tatters of the ACC comes crawling to the B1G.
Did Miami really crumble or is it just a matter of them playing tougher competition every week vs in the big East? I’m not saying that’s the reason but many well informed and well endowed people are saying it
I mean, the Big East was in or around the ACC's equal for the 00s, there was no huge bump in competition. the only school doing anything at that point in the ACC was FSU and Miami played them every year anyway and FSU took a dive like a year after the expansion happened anyway. VT was the clear #2 program in the Big East from nearly the time they joined to when they left so Miami didn't get to duck out on them either. imo Miami tanked primarily because of bad hires. Larry Coker was a bad coach. the physical manifestation of a shart could have coached the '01 team to a national title but all the positive things that came from that era, Coker did nothing to build off of them and eventually Miami ended up with talent and no coaching which then led to no talent and no coaching (in as much as Miami can have no talent relative to being able to throw a rock and hit a 4* in their recruiting area) with Shannon and Golden. I'm sure other things behind the scenes caught up to Miami and contributed to the downfall but they've just had dogshit holding the whistle for about twenty years and that's enough to sink any program. e: also, Miami wasn't immediately terrible. VT had a really good run at the time and they were in the same division. If VT wasn't in the ACC then Miami outright wins the ACC in 2004 (VT/Miami game at season's end was the de-facto title game) and they win the Coastal in 2005 and 2010. FSU beat them in 2005 and 2010 but the '05 game was damn close and Miami could have won in a rematch. Less likely in 2010, however.
I decided that we should kick Wake and BC and add Baylor and TCU. As long as it’s okay with our ND overlords. Syracuse is on the bubble. We can replace them with Navy if ND wishes