This you? Now that "reducing genocide to a number of votes" is back on your table, I'll repeat -- He hurts part of his base in either direction, and there's a hell of a lot more pro-Israel votes at stake.
You’re right if america stopped selling arms to Israel there’s nowhere else they could get weapons, it’s just simply impossible. Israel has consistently said the prerequisite to any ceasefire is a return of the hostages and Hamas refuses. It’s wild how you gloss over the terrorist organization that started and continued fighting this conflict
What is wild how you continually act as if this is a war between equals and if the US stopped sending Israel the most advanced warfare equipment in the world that they wouldn't think twice about indiscriminately bombing Gaza. It's a shame those hostages haven't been returned, guess we just need to kill as many civilians as possible!
Is this some sort of gotcha? You think I'm doing big-brained "electoral" politics and not actually sickened by what's going on that it's clear this admin is fine with? I'm appealing to this electability shit because it seems like it's the only way to get it through to assholes like you that this isn't just lives being lost it also fucking helps Trump by diminishing turnout. There's literally polls posted itt that show the majority of the Democratic base thinks this clearly going too far, it's insane to think pushing for a ceasefire would hurt his chances at reelection?
Is killing 10x civilians as you've lost justified when you maintain an open air prison that the absolute majority of people have no control over who internally runs?
hamas can do what they want and Israel has to take it. They were in a ceasefire on October 6, gee can’t imagine why Israel doesn’t want to do another
Is it the majority of people of Gaza? Do you seriously think that? Honestly, do you think the people of Gaza, the majority of which are CHILDREN, have actual power in this war?
It's not intended to be a gotcha, but you made a highly inflammatory statement insinuating I was hand waving off "genocide" for doing exactly what it is you continue to do page after page in this thread. And that should be called out. It's also worth pointing out again, as many itt have, that there's only one side of this conflict openly calling for genocide, and it's Hamas. I'm personally not a fan of their approach, but whether or not its justified, there's just too much nuance. As with most wars.
this is what killing as many civilians as possible looks like right? Videos keep coming out of rocket launder sites in schools, at amusement parks, in mosques and you never bring that up, weird.
We're absolutely done here. If you think that Israel has to say the words "we're doing genocide" in order for this to meet your threshold, despite evidence of so many humanitarian groups saying they are, then that's all I need to know about you.
How dare you insuinate that I'm hand waving genocide Proceed to hand wave genocide claiming its just war 3 sentences later
It's just a silly argument that sides need to be equal. If a terrorist group is threatening mass murder -- and in the case of Hamas, actual literal calls for genocide -- is it not ok for a country to defend itself when the threat proves to be more than just words? Which is what actually happened. It's just a bonkers misrepresentation of reality. And I get it. Israel's probably going to overplay this and create more terrorists not less just like we probably did in Iraq. But that's not his argument.
*Israel temporarily switches from genocide to ethnic cleansing* Illinihockey : look how virtuous Israel is!
Israel is not talking about killing every Palestinian. Hamas is talking about not only killing every Israeli but every Jew. Equating war, no matter how ill-conceived, to "genocide" is to cheapen the word.
theres 2.1 million Arab israeli citizens, they certainly aren’t trying to ethnically cleanse non-Jews from Israel.
you mean the catastrophe where the Arabs didn’t wipe all of the Jews out of the holy land? You know not all Arabs left right? Tons stayed which is why Arabs make up over 20% of Israel’s population
Israel does not care about the hostages and has never cared. That's just a red herring to justify capret bombing and genociding the Palestinian people. You do realize that Israel is arming the bad guys in the Congolese genocide, the Sudan genocide, and the Guatemalan genocide? Oh and for the record I am a Litvak Jew.
I'm more than aware of the history of the region. What does it have to do with Israel, as it stands, close to a hundred years later, responding to a terrorist attack against innocent civilians?
"This person doesn't agree with me, it must mean that they need to google this thing we all learned in 9th grade history I'm so smart"
please keep your shit posting to the middle east thread so I can continue to avoid it thanks, management
So why did Isreal shut off the electricity, water, and freedom of movement? You do realize that Gaza is a concentration camp, right?
*looks at region that hold grudges for millenia* “What does shit that’s been happening consistently for the past 75 years have to do with today?” - a genius
How about you guys try to “win” the Israel-Palestine conflict debate in that thread and we can go back to reducing international news to how it relates to Biden’s electability in this thread.
So you think this incredibly nuanced, complicated issue that no one has been able to figure out, is just this super simple thing that can be understood by a 9th grade history lesson? Got it.
lol at posting carefully selected IDF footage of the Israeli army ethnically cleansing an entire civilian population and expecting people not to find that completely horrifying. Mind you, they're not at all safe. They have no food, no clean water, no sanitary facilities, no medicine, no shelter from the sun and they're still being bombed and shelled in the south of Gaza. Look up the Alhambra Decree or Expulsion of the Moriscos (among many other past examples) for how history will judge what Israel and (by extension) the United States are doing.
I'm a fucking Jew and Israel has no right to defend itself against the oppressed as an oppressor. This is further codified by the Internal Criminal Court. Was the French resistance a terrorist organization when they pre-emptively killed Nazis in WWII? Why aren't you condemning them? Fuck off with Zionist shit. It's not what Judaism is about and never has been. Zionism is a Christian concept from the late 16th century that Hertzl adopted from a Christian Zionist in 1870s. The end goal of Christian Zionism is to unify Israel to bring about a prophecy that the Messiah will be resurrected. The problem with this is that Christians either want the Jews to convert or die in this scenario.
If you're comparing Hamas to the french resistance, we're not likely to ever see eye to eye. Sorry boss. I lost track of threads. I jumped into this with people saying that 200,000 Muslims who live in Michigan were capable of tanking Biden's entire electability, which I see as both insane and mathematically unsound, especially when every GOP candidate is advocating for bombing Iran and deporting anyone who questions it.
I as a Jew whose father grew up in a Nazi occupation for almost 5 years and whose grandfather was killed by Nazis might just know a bit more than you about this topic and if you don't believe why is it that Holocaust survivors are also completely against the actions of Netanyahu and IDF.
I don't understand what you being a Jew has to do with Hamas murdering civilians at a music festival and comparing that to the french resisting the nazis.
This is a completely stupid argument, but just for the record, the French Resistance absolutely murdered civilians.
Sucks to see it reduced to a Jewishness contest but that’s talking to smarmy dipshit liberals for you.
I don't think this will happen, but I think it's unwise to believe that Biden's handling of Israel over the next year can't sink him. Some of the margins in multiple states were very small. To date, Biden's been pretty adept at navigating tricky situations, especially some in which he initially looked like he was fucking up. I remain hopeful that he'll find a path out of this that keeps American Muslims and Jews energized to vote for him, even though I'm not sure how he threads that needle currently.
Bibi is such a fucker, and quite frankly a lunatic. He has completely muddied our politics in that you're either with him or you hate Jews. The needle is impossible to thread. That doesn’t absolve Biden or his admin of not aggressively working toward a ceasefire.
If you look at this and think Biden isn't hurting himself right now then you're being extremely selective in favor of believing all the propaganda that Israel has forced us to grow up with the past several decades. https://www.dataforprogress.org/blo...asefire-and-de-escalation-of-violence-in-gaza
Absolutely seeing a lot of the same, and a lot of it seems like it was recession panic causing an actual recession. First qtr of this year all the doom and gloom caused a lot of places to go ahead and start initiating cost cutting measures before it was warranted (usually entailing cuts to marketing budgets and layoffs) and then all the marketing firms that relied on those budgets got crushed. My wife worked in Tech digital marketing and it's been grim since February.
I'm always open to new information. Please share more about the French purposely targeting non-participatory civilians as a matter of policy in the way that Hamas very openly does. Yea, anything's possible. Polls this far out lack the context of an opponent. No one who's pro-Palenstine is going to vote for the GOP over their position on this. At best it might cause people to stay home. I just happen to think that the enthusiasm gap will probably change when Trump is on TV 24/7 saying he wants to deport all Muslims. I've quoted you every chance I've gotten? I clearly don't have a problem sharing opinions TMB posters disagree with, so not sure why I'd avoid it.
Please explain from what perspective are you coming from? Are you Jewish? Have you had family members murdered for multiple generations? I'm literally the first generation in my family that hasn't had relatives murdered for the last 4 generations. No, this is not pity or a sympathy plea. It's simply that people that do not understand occupation, murder, oppression and have never faced it cannot understand what it is like. It's like try to say you understand what black people go through when you are white. You can say I can imagine, but you cannot because until you actually experience all the hatred, discrimination, micro aggressions, and assumptions that still doesn't cover it because you never feel at ease becuase you never really know if you got rejected from a job simply becuase of your skin color or your name, or you got rejected for a home loan. Even when you do get something there's always a feeling that your co-workers are wondering if you got the job because of your skin color and if you are really qualified. Now add in the violence part where people attack you simply because of your skin color or your ethnicity and treat you like an animal simply because of somethign you have no control over. I do not recognize the state of Israel for the reason that we're only 85 years removed from Jewish people being treated like the Palestinians have been and they cannot see that Palestinians as themselves in an extremely similar situation. The Jews know better and that's why you see so many Jewish voices that are pro-Palestinian. As for Hamas, please let me know when there ever was a time when an oppressor relented simply because the group they were oppressing talked them out of it. It has never happened. You cannot ethinically cleanse a population and then play vicitim when they strike back.