A Dance With Dragons Discussion [Book 5]

Discussion in 'Game of Thrones (ASOIAF)' started by Aegon the Conqueror, Jun 29, 2011.

  1. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    I can back up all of my theories except for this one. I have no clue really who will sit on the Iron Throne at the end, but to me it seems fitting that Gendry is the one. When it comes to his qualities, he is everything that Robert should have been. Robert was a great warrior but had an empty soul. It seems to me that Gendry gets a lot more airtime than he should. The relationship between him and Arya leads me to believe that when all is said and done, they will end up together. GRRM already said that his wife forbade him from killing Arya at the end of the series since she is her favorite character, so at least we know one character that may survive the series. Again, there is no real factual evidence for this one.
     
  2. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    Reed and Aegon theories, go.
     
  3. jorge

    jorge Founder of Post ITT if your team sucks
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    I don't think these are that out there but between Mance and Bloodraven to me it would be cliche to have two major Nights watchmen who "betrayed" their purpose.
     
  4. LT8

    LT8 Well-Known Member

    Thought I knew everything ASOIAF, turns out, I know nothing.
     
  5. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    Reed:
    - the Crannogmen are said to be descendants of the COTF, which GRRM himself has said is his version of elves who have extremely long lives.
    - Howland Reed is said to be a close friend of Ned's, a key member of Robert's Rebellion and present at the Tower of Joy for Lyanna's death.
    - if the theory that Jon is the son of Rhaegar & Lyanna is to be believed, then Howland is likely the only person alive who still knows the truth of Jon's birth (with the exception of possibly Benjen).
    - House Reed is a sworn house of Winterfell, required to respond when the banners are called.
    - Jojen is not mentioned at all in the books until he shows up at Winterfell.
    - If Howland Reed was truly a friend and sworn bannerman of Ned, would he sit in his swamp with all of the events that are currently going on?
    - would Howland send to children to Winterfell with the uncertainty in Westeros without any guard?
    - My theory is that Howland went to Winterfell, disguised as a made-up child of his. Since his race are descendants of the COTF, they age slowly, much like Aragorn in LOTR since he is a descendant of Numenor. Howland helps the Starks in the best way he knows how by helping Ned's offspring. He leads Bran to Bloodraven, completing his task, and now that Bran is becoming a tree stump, he will leave Bran and head east along the wall (since he cannot go through the gate he came through since he is not a member of the Night's Watch) and run into Jon, where he will reveal his true parentage.

    Aegon:
    - Aegon was killed by Gregor.
    - There is a story in the books that describes a tavern during the Blackfyre rebelliion that has a red sign with a black dragon on it. When the Blackfyre rebellion occurred, the tavern owner realized that these were the Blackfyre colors and threw it in the sea. The sign later washed up on a beach of an island, the same place Aegon made his landing, rusted black, which is the Targaryen color. This implies that Aegon has the appearance of a Targaryen (black) however is truly a Blackfyre inside (red).
    - Dany is told the prophecy about the mummer's dragon, which Varys was a mummer, and Aegon is his dragon.
    - Jon Connington believes Aegon is the real deal, however he did not meet Aegon until he was 4 or 5 years old.
    - The Blackfyre line died on the male side, which is mentioned in the books, however the female line has never been mentioned as having died.
    - Illyrio's wife is described as having Targaryen features, so the prevailing rumor is that Aegon is Illyrio's son. Illyrio and Varys have been working together as evidenced by the book and the show.
     
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  6. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
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    I like your Howland theory up until the part where he leaves the cave. isn't he on the edge of death at the end of ADWD?
     
  7. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    He is definitely weak however we don't know how close to death he truly is. Obviously this is just a theory, but there are many aspects that hint towards it.

    A couple of additional things I forgot to mention were that Jojen is called "little grandfather" due to his wisdom at such a perceived young age and he seems to have an uncanny knowledge of greenseeing and warging for one of his age.
     
  8. Voodoo

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    Isn't jojen physically smaller than meera?
     
  9. Manny

    Manny I love Lip

    You have given me some things to ponder.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    My cousin Brooke is taller than her dad. It happens.
     
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  11. Babou

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    And his woiaf page says "Jojen is barely an adolescent when he arrives at Winterfell, but his gravity and mature personality make him seem older."

    :warn:
     
  12. Keef

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    I like this new guy...getting some new discussion going
     
  13. three stacks

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    yea no way is jojen = howland
     
  14. Keef

    Keef Liked by Pierre Gasly
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    I rule almost nothing out at this point
     
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  15. Arrec Bardwin

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    I like the idea of Benjen warging into a wight being Coldhands.
     
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  16. Verbal Kint

    Verbal Kint Well-Known Member
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    Maybe Howland Warged into Jojen
     
  17. Jaqen H'ghar

    Jaqen H'ghar Valar Morghulis

    maybe GRRM died and warged into NukedSquid and is giving us his secrets so we can finish the books and fulfill our destinies
     
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  18. colonel_forbin

    colonel_forbin Well-Known Member
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    pics of brooke
     
  19. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    Well, obviously I wouldn't post a pic of her, but I will tell you she's a 19 year old track star in college and is studying to be a nurse. Your imagination would probably end up being better than the pic anyway.
     
  20. colonel_forbin

    colonel_forbin Well-Known Member
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    well unless she's a women's shot-putter, then i imagine she's got a banging body. i can work around an ugly face.
     
  21. NukedSquid

    NukedSquid Salty Goat

    Then it sounds like she's your gal. Here you go:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. DC3

    DC3 Well-Known Member
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  23. three stacks

    three stacks hasta la victoria siempre
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    UA412 i just got your season 3 icon. very sneaky :grinch:
     
  24. Lawnole23

    Lawnole23 FSU Seminoles 2020 National Champions
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    Team I like the new guy. Keep dropping theories. I like reading about them. The best part is we have another 5 years or so to ponder on them before the next book.
     
  25. Illinihockey

    Illinihockey Well-Known Member
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    4 years now
     
  26. BTH

    BTH The most precious possession...is your own people.
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    FUCK THAT FAT FUCK FOR KILLING JON SNOW. [spoiler/]
     
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  27. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
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  28. BTH

    BTH The most precious possession...is your own people.
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    Has anyone gone back and read the books again? I'm seriously considering doing it, starting with ACOK. Or are there any other similar series worth reading? Wheel of Time is too slow and I just can't get into it. Other than that, I'm open to suggestions. I've heard the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson is supposed to be top notch. Anybody read them?
     
  29. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
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    start with AGOT. I'm just about finished my second reading. got like 200 pages left in ADWD. I may have enjoyed them more the second time through to be honest.
     
  30. LT8

    LT8 Well-Known Member

    Started the Book of the Fallen a long time ago, but couldn't get into it. Probably because I was so young though. I'm reading WoT right now, halfway through the third book and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.
     
  31. Buff_Ruffnek

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    Melisandre is going to ressurerect Jon though....then he will be free of his Nights watch obligations
     
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  32. Dolorous_Ted

    Dolorous_Ted Well-Known Member

    Some(spoilers all) subjects and theories that aren't as high profile as the typical lightbringer/ptwp/azor theories,but have led to good discussion elsewhere
    .
    .
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    .
    .
    .

    Will Blackfish show up at the Aerie(what will happen between he and Littlefinger/Sansa if so)?

    Robbs letter about Jon Snow still in play and what role it may have...Winterfell implications,etc...

    When is all hell going to break loose at the Twins,or with the Freys in general?

    Also some good Prophecy and crackpot subjects out there but don't want to saturate one post with too much.
     
  33. Buff_Ruffnek

    Buff_Ruffnek Ph.D Bovine Flatulence
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    I'd like to see Rickon return, Unite the Northmen and with or without the help of Stannis flay every fucking enemy of the North that is IN the North, and see the Frey's butchered and hung from the Twins like scarecrows as a reminder.
     
  34. lazy bum

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    the Malazan series is probably my favorite series I've been through. It's dense, there are a ton of characters that come and go and you're not always sure who's important and who isn't, and Erickson sometimes gets a little too wrapped up in his prose but it seriously hooked me in the 2nd book and never let go.

    I'm not sure it's for everyone, but I do recommend it.
     
  35. Larry Sura

    Larry Sura Tuyuq. Fratzy
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    How many books are there?
     
  36. lazy bum

    lazy bum active consumer
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    there are 10 in the main series written by Erickson and all 10 have been finished and released. He's doing some other stuff in the world now that should be coming out in the next few years, but won't be part of that main story. The guy he created the universe with, Ian Esselmont, also has an ongoing series of books in the world but really aren't necessary for the main plotline.
     
  37. Gert B Frobe

    Gert B Frobe Well-Known Member
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    I've gone back and re-read the books since the series started to pick up some of the smaller stuff I flew by at release, and there has turned out to be a shit ton.
    Not putting this out as speculation, just food for thought on some stuff I picked up on the re-reads.

    Even on the first pass, I always noted how different Tyrion was from the other Lannisters (besides the obvious) he was always a introspective, intelligent and much less violent character when compared to his father, Cersi and Jamie. Not a coward by any means, but more likely to use his wits than violence to solve problems. Many will say that was due to his size, but he had all the $ of the Rock behind him, he could have afforded to be just as bloodthirsty as his father/sister and to a point Jamie.

    Anyway, that was what started my searching. The first thing I noted was in one of the early books it was noted that his hair color is a very pale blonde, almost white. In contrast to Cresi/Jamie who had golden blonde hair.
    In ASoS Tywin makes this somewhat weird statement to Tyrion.- “Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”
    In ADwD Selmy tells Daenerys- “Prince Aerys . . . as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the . . . the liberties your father took during the bedding.”

    So, maybe there is another part Targ wandering? Maybe, maybe not, but interesting and something to discuss for the next 5 years.

    I had an idea that Connington was a pole smoker just from the way he talked about Rhaegar, and he sure seems kinda jealous of SoTM. GRRM seems to admit as much here.
    Q: Is a certain POV character in ADWD gay?

    A: "I can't answer without spoiling, but if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then yes." George mentioned that there are gay characters in ASOIAF. He mentioned Loras & Renly, saying that he included "what I thought were subtle but clear hints. HBO was not subtle about it."

    Have more, but that all I can think of at the moment.
     
  38. Keef

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    Unless Tywin got married after the birth of Jaime and Cersei this would mean nothing for Tyrion
     
  39. zeberdee

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  40. Keef

    Keef Liked by Pierre Gasly
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    Sword of the Morning
     
  41. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
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  42. Voodoo

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    :feelsgoodman:
     
  43. Gert B Frobe

    Gert B Frobe Well-Known Member
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    Correct, and I should have been more clear when quoting the passage. My though was not that Tyrion was conceived on the wedding night (I think it was just a hint that Aerys was hot from dear old moms) but that he was a little over zealous with her when the men undressed and carried her to the bedding, setting up the doubt in the readers mind, and a possible solution for later on in the story.

    My idea was that Aerys possibly raped (or was given willingly) Joannna later and conceived Tyrion. The passage above gave Tywin the idea that tyrion MAY not be his. It also clears up some of the big questions in my minds like, why would Tywin stay on as hand if he knew this? even when hand was taken, he was trying to marry Cersi to Rhaegar. If the rape had happened at the wedding he would have known, however if it were later...he may have guessed (“Men’s laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.”) but wasn't really sure who it was.

    Like I said, just something to discuss. Having Tywin killed kinda put a damper on it for me. I doubt it anything comes from it, but still, why those passages? GRRM seldom writes much that doesn't come around later on. Tyrion is going to be heavily involved IMO. "Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros... "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

    I do believe that Prince Oberyn’s missing bastard daughter, Sarella Sand, is actually Alleras at the Citadel in Oldtown. If you remember, he (she) is the one who meets Sam and takes him to Marwyn. What she is doing there is up for debate. When discussing arresting the Sand Snakes with Hotah, Doran says this about her, "“Unless she returns to Dorne, theres naught I can do about Sarella save pray that she shows more sense than her sisters. Leave her to her . . . game.". Also, although kinda stupid I guess, Alleras spelled backwards is...

    I'm fully on the "Aegon is a cloth dragon" wagon. IMO, he is the son of Illyrio and his now-deceased concubine Serra of Lys. I'll go a step farther and say that I think that Serra, Aegon the fake and Varys are all Blackfyres or descendants of Aerion Brightflame. I think that Varys and Serra were related, possibly siblings. Brightflame was the Targ prince who was exiled to Lys for a few years (Varys and Serra were both from Lys) and Martin has said left a few by-blows before he returned to Westeros to drink wildfire.
     
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  44. zeberdee

    zeberdee wheel snipe celly boys
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    Connington definitely wanted Rhaegar's cock in or around his mouth.
     
  45. London Humphreys

    London Humphreys The next Julian Edelman, obviously.
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    Someone emailed a link to the theory below. Hope it's true:



    Reading and discussing in various forums just made me realize something that makes me as giddy as a schoolgirl. There is going to be a wedding soon, and boy is it going to be awesome.
    Throughout the whole series, GRRM has been building up the idea of the BwB, an organization looking to protect the weak. However since SoS we have seen the BwB's slow transition from an organization vying for peace, to one looking for vengeance.Now instead of helping smallfolk, the sole purpose of the BwB seems to be the systematic killing of everyone related to the Red Wedding.
    Now why is this post titled the Red Wedding 2.0. Well first of all we know that there is going to be a wedding in Riverrun. Daven Lannister and some Frey girl are going to get married to strengthen the alliance between these two families. We know that many (not all) Freys and Lannisters will attend the wedding. Now you may think just because there's a wedding doesn't mean it will immediately end in tragedy. Sure, we have Joffrey's wedding, Robb's wedding, "Arya"s wedding,etc. but there have been a few bloodless, albeit miserable wedding experiences. Well, wouldn't it make sense that the Brotherhood without Banners is looking to give the Freys and the Lannisters a taste of their own medicine.
    We know for the nonce that Tom O' Sevens is in Riverrun acting as a bard. What the hell is he doing there? Did he quit the brotherhood? We are given absolutely no explanation to why he's there, which is a bit suspicious. This doesn't automatically mean death to all the Frey's, but it does give the BwB an ally inside the walls of Riverrun. We also have the complete support of the Riverlands, especially Riverrun. It is no secret that the north and the Riverlands hate the Lannisters and the Freys. So it isn't crazy to believe that some of the smallfolk or the soldiers who were pardoned to turn on the Freys. However, what I believe to be the greatest piece of evidence is the UnCat is leading the BwB. She is a character that is completely bent on revenge and will do anything to get it. Hell, she should know that Arya and Sansa are somewhere, alive, and instead she's off killing every visible Frey. So I don't think that Tom O' Sevens being in Riverrun is a coincidence. We also know that the BwB is very close to Riverrun. We see how one of the Freys (I forget his name, there are too fucking many of them) gets murrdered when heading to the Twins, in an area extremely close to Riverrun. This is all speculation at this point, yet I believe, nay, I wish this to be true. I would also like Arya to be there to chop Walder Frey's balls off and feed it to Nymeria, but I have less evidence to support that.
     
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  46. three stacks

    three stacks hasta la victoria siempre
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    that would be so glorious
     
  47. Babou

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  48. Voodoo

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    There's no way the brotherhood could fight a combined force of Lannisters and Freys, is there?
     
  49. BayouMafia

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    terrorism, kidnapping, guerrilla warfare

    I assume Brienne didn't have the best of intentions with Jaime
     
  50. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Wouldn't be a battle, it would be a trap. Numbers don't mean as much in that situation