Bad Police Thread - where calling the police is a gamble

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by Barves2125, May 28, 2015.

  1. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    Lately, there have been a lot of discussions of shitty police work in various threads. Not wanting to stuff up NoleNBlue 's police thread by constantly highlighting shitty police, I figured it makes more sense to make a thread dedicated to them alone and awareness of the flaws in our domestic police system.

    Justin Way was in bed with a knife. His girlfriend called a non-emergency number to try to get him into a hospital. Minutes later, cops shot him dead.
    On May 11, Justin Way was drinking and threatening to hurt himself. His father, George Way, said his son was a recovering alcoholic and had been alcohol-free for five weeks.

    “He just lost his job, and he had a setback,” he said.

    Way’s live-in girlfriend, Kaitlyn Christine Lyons, said she’d caught Justin drinking a bottle of vodka, which she took away from him to pour out. She said he was drunk, lying in their bed with a large knife, saying he would hurt himself with it. She called a non-emergency number in an attempt to get her boyfriend to a local St. Augustine, Florida, hospital for help—and told them she did not feel threatened.

    “My brother has been Baker Acted three times because he was threatening to hurt himself so I figured that would happen with Justin,” said Lyons. Florida’s Baker Act allows the involuntary institutionalization of an individual, and it can be initiated by law-enforcement officials.

    “The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”

    Minutes later, two St. Johns County Sheriff’s deputies, 26-year-old Jonas Carballosa and 32-year-old Kyle Braig, arrived at the home, armed with assault rifles, and told Kaitlyn to wait outside.

    “I thought they were going into war,” she remembered thinking when she first saw the large guns. Within moments, Justin was shot dead.

    George Way said the initial report he received from Det. Mike Smith detailed an incident wherein his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife. Way said Smith told him Justin had threatened Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn denies this.

    Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said that the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because that’s what we do.”

    Denise said Smith then told her about “this new trend in law-enforcement now—it’s called suicide by cop.” She said Smith explained “suicide by cop” is when suicidal people provoke the police in an effort to end their own lives.

    She said Smith wouldn’t tell her family where or how many times their son was shot.

    Justin’s parents do not believe their son was a threat, because they think Justin was shot while still lying in bed.

    “If Justin was coming after them with a knife, at 6-foot-4, wouldn’t there be blood splattered all over the room?” George said.

    Way’s parents brought Justin’s mattress to the curb after his death. George says he believes there was a bullet dug out of the bed from a hole found in the middle of it. He also said the blood was contained entirely within the mattress, and that it did not hit the walls or the floor.

    “The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don't think he wanted to die.”
    In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental-health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

    “If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.


    If the deputies used tasers and one prong missed, Mulligan said, they might be left in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.

    “They were in a very tight space within a residence,” he said.

    Mulligan added that the difference between an assault rifle and a handgun would not have affected the outcome in Justin Way’s case.

    “Whether it’s a rifle or not, in many senses, is a non-issue,” he said. “A bullet comes out of a handgun, a bullet comes out of a rifle.”

    This wasn’t the first time that law enforcement in the area had been involved in a fatal shooting. One of the two officers that went into Justin Way’s home, Kyle Braig, was involved in a fatal shooting with a knife-wielding man five months ago. A few days after Way was killed, another suicidal man was injured by St Johns County deputies.

    On Facebook, Jonas Carballosa, the second deputy involved in the Justin Way shooting, once posted the following quote: “Most people respect the badge. Everyone respects the gun.”

    Way’s parents said they do not ever want to call the police again—for anything.

    Kaitlyn Lyons said she hopes the police rethink how guns are used in cases where people are calling about those who are suicidal or seeking help.

    “I think they should come in using other things,” she said. “And I think they definitely need to figure out how to handle suicidal people.”

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/28/man-calls-suicide-line-police-kill-him.html
    Cliffs:
    -Suicidal man has knife in hand as he lays in bed
    -Girlfriend calls non-emergency number to get him some help; tells them she does not feel threatened
    -Two deputies armed with assault rifles arrive
    -Man is shot and killed minutes later

    I'm sure an investigation will be conducted to see if these officers acted correctly or not. Without knowing much about the interaction they had with the man inside the bedroom, it's hard to have any indication what happened. Assuming it's true, the suicidal man's blood being entirely contained within the perimeter of the mattress does seem to tell somewhat of a story though.
     
  2. DrTomOsbourne

    DrTomOsbourne Fully Husked
    Donor
    Nebraska CornhuskersTampa Bay Lightning

    I tend to side with cops on most things..

    One I didn't though was that 11 year old on Cleveland where security cameras caught the car roll up on the kid sitting on a bench and the cop just got out and blasted him. I know someone called and said the kid had a gun but at least from video it didn't se they ensured he did.. Whatever happened there?
     
  3. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger Woods2pacSneakersWu-tang

    Police brutality is a massive issue. Really sad that the media only cares to make a huge story out if it unless they can make it a white on black race issue.
     
    BTH, oldberg, Val Venis and 5 others like this.
  4. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/01/us/cleveland-responds-lawsuit-police-shooting-tamir-rice/

    Went to a civil suit and the police are saying the boy, Tamir Rice, was responsible for his own death. The officer who arrived to the scene and fired shots literally two seconds later is not at fault because the 11 year old boy had a BB gun in his hand. The gun which was described by the 911 caller as "probably fake" is what made the officer shoot and kill him immediately.
     
  5. NoleNBlue

    NoleNBlue The fuck is that? It's an armoire.
    Donor TMB OG
    Florida State SeminolesBayern Munich

    He reached for the gun when they pulled up.
     
  6. NoleNBlue

    NoleNBlue The fuck is that? It's an armoire.
    Donor TMB OG
    Florida State SeminolesBayern Munich

    I look forward to a lot of rational, non-judgmental conversation in here.
     
  7. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideNew York YankeesJacksonville JaguarsTiger Woods2pacSneakersWu-tang

    No offense but you should probably avoid this thread.
     
  8. NoleNBlue

    NoleNBlue The fuck is that? It's an armoire.
    Donor TMB OG
    Florida State SeminolesBayern Munich

    Oh I am. I was tagged.
     
    Shadow and dblplay1212 like this.
  9. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakers

    He is white. I can't work with this. Was his girlfriend black at least?
     
    sflnole likes this.
  10. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    if they had acted according to "it's probably fake", and it was a real gun, and he then shot and killed a little old lady at the bus stop, it would be all - WTF is wrong with these cops, they got a call of a guy with a gun, they roll up like it's nothing, and now an innocent old woman is dead?!?!

    it's hard to blame cops for shooting someone who points a gun at them, real or fake. And, IIRC, they didn't light him up like I've seen before either, it was one shot. Unfortunately it killed him, but they didn't put 30 shots in him.
     
    daddy fat sacks likes this.
  11. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakers

    The cop that pulled up right on him was more at fault than the kid. If that was a real gun and a real crazy person they might have gotten shot.
     
    #11 Daniel Ocean, May 28, 2015
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
    marcus likes this.
  12. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    My man. If the police officers in question used rational, non-judgmental thoughts then a lot of the situations that will be posted in this thread would probably be avoided.

    Rationale is not something many people seem to possess these days and I understand that. I just don't think we should give a badge and gun to anyone that lacks it. And we definitely shouldn't protect them as strongly as we do now when those people do make mistakes.
     
  13. NoleNBlue

    NoleNBlue The fuck is that? It's an armoire.
    Donor TMB OG
    Florida State SeminolesBayern Munich

    That was sarcasm, of course
     
    Lefthook likes this.
  14. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    :facepalm:
     
  15. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Yeah that driver really fucked his partner and that kid
     
    Doug, hoebekec and marcus like this.
  16. zachary

    zachary <3
    Donor
    Texas LonghornsHouston AstrosHouston RocketsDallas Cowboys

    this was ridiculous but usually most cases can be so much easier if you just do what the cops tell you to do even if you don't agree at the time, arguing or running does you no good.
     
  17. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakers

    Kid never pointed the gun at the cops. It was a kid playing with a toy. The cops should have stopped at a safe distance and told him to drop the gun. They pulled right on him and didn't give themselves enough time to properly react.
     
  18. ashy larry

    ashy larry marcy projects, son
    Donor
    South Carolina GamecocksAtlanta BravesWu-tang

    wasn't the officer in the tamir rice previously deemed emotionally unfit to serve?
     
    jhooked likes this.
  19. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I can see that too
     
  20. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    You can literally see it.
     
  21. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I see a dude walking around with a gun. Then that dude getting shot by cops with guns.
     
  22. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    Yep. That's the problem right there. You actually have the benefit of full knowledge of the situation (that it's a 12 year old with a 'BB gun' who was reported by another civilian that stated it was 'probably fake') and you still want to simplify it to nothing more than what you've stated above.
     
    wes tegg likes this.
  23. Arkadin

    Arkadin inefficiently efficent and unclearly clear
    Donor

    Do we know dispatch relayed the probably fake part? I haven't followed it since the initial stuff
     
  24. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    Can't answer that for sure. I want to say they shared that but if not that just goes back to how flawed the dispatch system is. Officers should be given every ounce of information that dispatch receives. They should determine credibility independently but they should still have the information from the beginning.
     
  25. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

    It's a pretty good idea that if you're holding anything that resembles a weapon and cops roll up you should immediately drop it or you will be shot.
     
    Kdonahue and zachary like this.
  26. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I'm confused, are you disagreeing with me or agreeing with me?

    Do you want to take the word of someone who tells you it's probably fake? Some random person? If I give you a vile of poison and tell you - it's probably fake - are you drinking that shit under any circumstances?

    I think it should have been handled differently. If they thought it was a real gun, or that it could have potentially been real, then treat it like an active shooter situation. You wouldn't roll up 5 feet from the guy. Get 50 feet away, use your radio, disarm the guy, etc.
     
  27. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    You realize it was an 11 year old child right?
     
    AndersHolmvik, Merica, Redav and 4 others like this.
  28. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

    I'm not excusing the officers actions in that one case. Police shooting children is uncommon. Adults should know better.
     
  29. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    and 11 year old children could not shoot people with guns? Shooting them should be a last resort (like shooting anyone should be, and it was handled incorrectly), but acting like an 11 year old potentially with a gun is harmless is crazy.
     
  30. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    They shot the kid within 2 seconds of arriving. While I agree that an adult or child should both drop the weapon immediately, two seconds is hardly enough time to understand what's happening and act accordingly. Especially if that individual is a child or mentally unstable.
     
  31. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

    You're arguing with a bleeding heart liberal here. This is impossible in their minds. Children are wholly innocent.
     
    Shadow likes this.
  32. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    Wow
     
    CC, The42Yardstick, Merica and 11 others like this.
  33. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

    I don't know if there's audio, but usually police going to a scene with an armed person will have both lights and sirens going so you should be able to hear them coming. But yes, that one case was a very shitty situation where the driver put the rookie cop in an awfully bad spot.
     
  34. Prospector

    Prospector I am not a new member
    Arkansas Razorbacks

    http://www.vox.com/2015/5/28/8661977/race-police-officer

    I'm a black ex-cop, and this is the real truth about race and policing
    by Redditt Hudson on May 28, 2015


    On any given day, in any police department in the nation, 15 percent of officers will do the right thing no matter what is happening. Fifteen percent of officers will abuse their authority at every opportunity. The remaining 70 percent could go either way depending on whom they are working with.

    More on police brutality

    [​IMG]
    How systemic racism entangles all police officers — even black cops


    Why do police so often see unarmed black men as threats?

    When is it legal for a cop to kill you?

    That's a theory from my friend K.L. Williams, who has trained thousands of officers around the country in use of force. Based on what I experienced as a black man serving in the St. Louis Police Department for five years, I agree with him. I worked with men and women who became cops for all the right reasons — they really wanted to help make their communities better. And I worked with people like the president of my police academy class, who sent out an email after President Obama won the 2008 election that included the statement, "I can't believe I live in a country full of ni**er lovers!!!!!!!!" He patrolled the streets in St. Louis in a number of black communities with the authority to act under the color of law.

    That remaining 70 percent of officers are highly susceptible to the culture in a given department. In the absence of any real effort to challenge department cultures, they become part of the problem. If their command ranks are racist or allow institutional racism to persist, or if a number of officers in their department are racist, they may end up doing terrible things.

    It is not only white officers who abuse their authority. The effect of institutional racism is such that no matter what color the officer abusing the citizen is, in the vast majority of those cases of abuse that citizen will be black or brown. That is what is allowed.

    And no matter what an officer has done to a black person, that officer can always cover himself in the running narrative of heroism, risk, and sacrifice that is available to a uniformed police officer by virtue of simply reporting for duty. Cleveland police officer Michael Brelo was recently acquitted of all charges against him in the shooting deaths of Timothy Russell and Malissa Williams, both black and unarmed. Thirteen Cleveland police officers fired 137 shots at them. Brelo, having reloaded at some point during the shooting, fired 49 of the 137 shots. He took his final 15 shots at them after all the other officers stopped firing (122 shots at that point) and, "fearing for his life," he jumped onto the hood of the car and shot 15 times through the windshield.

    About that 15 percent of officers who regularly abuse their power: they exert an outsize influence
    Not only was this excessive, it was tactically asinine if Brelo believed they were armed and firing. But they weren't armed, and they weren't firing. Judge John O'Donnell acquitted Brelo under the rationale that because he couldn't determine which shots actually killed Russell and Williams, no one is guilty. Let's be clear: this is part of what the Department of Justice means when it describes a "pattern of unconstitutional policing and excessive force."

    Nevertheless, many Americans believe that police officers are generally good, noble heroes. A Gallup poll from last year asked Americans to rate the honesty and ethical standards of people in various fields: police officers ranked in the top five, just above members of the clergy. The profession — the endeavor — is noble. But this myth about the general goodness of cops obscures the truth of what needs to be done to fix the system. It makes it look like all we need to do is hire good people, rather than fix the entire system. Institutional racism runs throughout our criminal justice system. Its presence in police culture, though often flatly denied by the many police apologists that appear in the media now, has been central to the breakdown in police-community relationships for decades in spite of good people doing police work.

    Here's what I wish Americans understood about the men and women who serve in their police departments — and what needs to be done to make the system better for everyone....(more words)
     
    G8rbaiter likes this.
  35. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
    Donor
    Ohio State BuckeyesCleveland BrownsUSA RugbyTiger WoodsOhio BobcatsCleveland CavaliersCleveland IndiansOlympics

    It's unfortunate that there isn't a "Calls where everything went as it should've gone" thread. I guess it would be way too boring and 8,000 pages long in a matter of days, that no one would really be interested in reading all that lame, uninteresting stuff.
     
    undrtow, Pelican, WC and 5 others like this.
  36. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    It can happen quicker than 2 seconds. Go to 1:32

    notice how he's taking his time, just seeing what's going on, investigating, so he understands what is happening?

     
  37. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    That's like the Georgia football approach to policing...hey everything's pretty good most of the time
     
    Barves2125 likes this.
  38. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
    Donor
    Ohio State BuckeyesCleveland BrownsUSA RugbyTiger WoodsOhio BobcatsCleveland CavaliersCleveland IndiansOlympics

    I didn't say the negative shouldn't be fixed, but the growing (pretty blatantly ignorant) sentiment is that cops are shitty. People can pretend that they're not doing that with the hollow "I'm not saying all cops are bad" sentiment, but that's so transparent that it can't be taken seriously.

    All I'm saying is that so many people completely ignore the things cops do right or any positives because it doesn't fit their narrative. It's basically a microcosm of how mainstream media works -- don't report the good news because it's not juicy.

    I would actually be curious to see the percentage of calls nationwide that go awry compared to the ones that stay controlled/operate accordingly.
     
    undrtow, MoJo, Pelican and 4 others like this.
  39. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
    Donor
    Ohio State BuckeyesCleveland BrownsUSA RugbyTiger WoodsOhio BobcatsCleveland CavaliersCleveland IndiansOlympics

    Thats been the narrative around town since it happened -- "why did that cop drive directly up to the potential perp and put his partner in immediate harms way?"
     
    Merica and wes tegg like this.
  40. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    True...the media is definitely purposefully disingenuous which is inexcusable...but without people complaining about undeniable systematic racism I'm not sure anything would ever change.
     
  41. marcus

    marcus Sex with old ladies for money aaaand bear traps.
    Donor
    Ohio State BuckeyesCleveland BrownsUSA RugbyTiger WoodsOhio BobcatsCleveland CavaliersCleveland IndiansOlympics

    Agreed and I think it's working somewhat for people who have had issues with police injustice right now. I would go as far to say that they have the upper hand and a decent amount of police across the country are hesitant to do a lot(good work and bad, corrupt work). Checks for anyone with power are absolutely needed, but to me it seems like the anti-cop movement is growing and I cannot see how that's a good thing for anyone.
     
    Barves2125 likes this.
  42. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    Unfortunately it doesn't seem like many people on either side care to have a rational conversation about it. Making the job more desirable so more qualified people would want to do it and providing better training would seemingly make a huge difference. I'm sure the vast majority of police that find themselves in a situation where they fucked up aren't fucking up because they're bad people.
     
  43. Daniel Ocean

    Daniel Ocean I only lied about being a thief
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    UCLA BruinsDenver BroncosLos Angeles KingsSneakers

    Again if the cop doesn't pull right up on the kid with the toy he'd have more time to realize it was a kid with a toy.

    He didn't have time to give the kid with a toy a chance to drop the toy. Why can't you understand that? If that is a real gun and an adult shit even a kid up to no good, those cops are likely shot. As an 11 or 12 year kid I don't think you're aware enough to think "shit if I don't drop my toy within 5 seconds I am dead".

    I've been in countless threads like these with you and I think I have a good idea about what is clouding your judgment.
     
  44. wes tegg

    wes tegg I'm a Guy's guy, guys.
    Staff Donor
    Atlanta BravesDenver BroncosChicago BlackhawksMississippi Rebels

    And I have a goldfish.
     
  45. Teflon Queen

    Teflon Queen The mentally ill sit perfectly still
    Donor
    Auburn Tigers

    I'm still stunned by this post...you might want to get checked out...you're either autistic or completely unstable
     
  46. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    People in every line of work make mistakes. The problem is that when police officers make mistakes like the ones in this thread people that would otherwise not be in imminent danger are far too often killed. No one should have to be worrying about the consequences of calling the police. No one worries about calling firefighters and paramedics because they pretty much never wind up injuring someone or setting a building on fire. The point of this thread is to draw awareness to the incidents when police being called to a scene makes the situation much worse for all involved. Not to pick on the police but to point out the terrible situation(s) they're all put into. Terrible for the officers and terrible for the civilians.

    If someone is justifiably afraid of calling the police, there is something very wrong with the system. It's a difficult job but police should at least be held to the same standard of use of lethal force as a civilian would be in a situation of self defense. After all, they are trained to handle those situations and took a job that is inherent to handling them. The fact of the matter is that they aren't held to that same standard.

    As I've mentioned in this sort of discussion in another thread before, there seems to be a major flaw with the way we train police in our country. There should be higher/stricter qualifications for becoming a LEO and when using a lethal weapon they should at least be held to the same standards as civilians if not higher. The opposite is true, however. They're able to get away with mistakes that civilians are not and that's frightening to me.
     
    Imurhuckleberry and G8rbaiter like this.
  47. eHo

    eHo Fan of teams that never win shit and the Seahawks.
    Donor
    Georgia BulldogsSeattle SeahawksSeattle Mariners

    I imagine that will get started immediately after the "peaceful Muslims," "normal black citizens," and "sane Floridians" threads.
     
    DistantFactor and i am a bammer like this.
  48. G46

    G46 Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Florida GatorsNew York YankeesNew York KnicksNew York GiantsNew York Rangers

  49. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    FactsRule and wes tegg like this.
  50. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I think you are an idiot, and we agree in this case anyways, so take your racist bullshit and cram it up your ass:

     
    Shadow likes this.