Shields had 18 quality starts last year. He was roughly in the top 25 in baseball in that category. He'd be serviceable I'd think. Moving folty would be tough for sure.
Also, if shields is league average I'd bet coppy eats money to get back better prospects in any deal.
I get that, and generally agree, but you used quality starts to try and say he was decent last year. He was awful. If they're going for a rebuild I'd imagine the Sox are more interested in prospects than cash at this point, anyways. Not going to get a DBacks repeat.
Would rather overpay in prospects than send away Folty, who I think can be a top of the rotation arm. As great as Sale is, trading Folty to do it would really hurt. For me, getting Sale, having JT as a 2 and Folty as a 3 would be the ideal scenario. Building a legit depth and a strong trio.
I'm saying he's a warm body that would give us innings. And he strung together enough good starts to get traded last year.
I agree with this. Money and even Folty would be less interesting than the younger guys. The shields talk is out there though.
I guess I just don't see Folty as valuable enough to lose the possibility of getting Sale over. He's a peak 3-4 win guy. That's really good, but we have the prospect depth to get away with it and find a serviceable 3.
I'm torn.. At first glance I'd give up Folty. But we are opening up another hole. Maybe trade Folty and sign Hammel.
It would hurt giving up Folty, we all agree. But we are talking about a top 5 starting pitcher in the world who is still 3 years away from turning 30. He's only 2 years younger than sale for goodness sake. Im sorry, but I dont love Folty that much that I would not do this deal just to keep him. If we have to take back Shields, oh well we have the money and its only for 2 years.
I think Folty's got a little more ceiling than that, although can debate on his likelihood to reach it. I see both sides. I'd be tempted to use that depth to get Sale rather than replace Folty.
But would you say no to any deal involving Folty? That seems to be a bit much, imo. I don't think the Red Sox value someone like Benintendi that high nor should they. And he's got a much higher pedigree/ceiling than Folty.
Agree with this. The chances of any of our prospects reaching Sale level is pretty low, if we have the pieces to get a fair deal done not sure how you don't pull the trigger.
I agree that if the best pitchers we have are all #3s then the farm is vastly overrated right now, but if a few of those guys become something more it could get better in a hurry.
Would hate to trade Folty, but I don't see how we land Sale without a package headlined by him or Swanson. Folty, Albies, Mallex, and Minter, I'm betting, is closer to what it would take.
Easier said than done. Closest guy to being an ace is Folty. Everyone else is another 3-4 years away to maybe, possibly being one.
If folty was 19 or 20 with as much promise as he's shown, i could see maybe causing "pause" to trading him for Sale. But they are 2 years apart, and Sale is already a superstar pitcher on a tremendous contract for the rest of this decade just about. What are the odds Folty ever becomes a top 5 starting pitcher? I dont see any issue with trading him for sale and i definitely would prefer to bring Shields with him to lessen the load of other prospects we would have to send
From MLB Trade Rumors Chat Scott 3:04 What do you think the Braves would have to give up to get Sale? Steve Adams 3:05 Think of the single most painful package of young talent you'd reasonably be able to withstand surrendering. Now triple it. I mean, if I'm Rick Hahn, I'm asking for Ender and/or Dansby as starting points and then adding 3-4 prospects from there.
Top 3 Brian Dozier trade destinations? Steve Adams 3:08 Dodgers, Dodgers and Dodgers? Or less snark-ily, I like the Dodgers, Braves and Angels as on-paper fits, though the Halos don't have much to offer obviously. And yes, I'm aware that the Braves have Albies coming, but we just finished talking about them trading for an ace, and there's no guarantee their roster looks the same come Spring Training as it does right now. And Dozier's infinitely better than Jace Peterson, and probably better than Albies will be, as well. At least for the next two years.
Bowman: Prospect-rich Braves could trade for Sale Atlanta, near contention, might be motivated to part with top young talent Could White Sox move Sale? 0:37 MLB.com White Sox reporter Scott Merkin discusses the White Sox potentially trading Chris Sale as part of a larger rebuild By Mark Bowman / MLB.com | @mlbbowman | 14 minutes ago ATLANTA -- The Chicago White Sox, looking to start a rebuilding phase, have said they'll listen on any player on their roster with three or fewer years of team control remaining, including Chris Sale. The Braves, nearing what they hope will be the final stage of their own rebuild, recently signed veteran right-handers R.A. Dickey and Bartolo Colon to one-year deals, are opening a new ballpark in 2017 and -- most importantly -- have stockpiled the kind of MLB-ready or near-ready prospects it will take to land the ace left-hander. And so it stands to reason, as MLB Network's Jon Heyman is reporting, that the Braves are showing strong interest in a deal for Sale, who is owed a reasonable $38 million over the next three seasons. Sale, 27, has produced a 3.04 ERA over 148 starts since becoming a mainstay in Chicago's rotation during the 2012 season. In 2016, he posted a 17-10 record with a 3.34 ERA -- including an MLB-best six complete games -- while striking out 233 over 226 2/3 innings. The Braves surprised down the stretch of the 2016 season, going 30-20 in their final 50 games as the young talent started to deliver on its promise. The club has done its due diligence on other potentially available starting pitchers -- asking about the Rays' Chris Archer and the A's Sonny Gray -- as it seeks to solidify its rotation around Julio Teheran, Mike Foltynewicz, Dickey and Colon. If the White Sox were to trade Sale, they likely would seek a return that would include at least four players who are, or are close to, Major League ready. Their needs are right up the middle -- catching, starting pitching, middle infield and center field. While the Braves do not have catching to deal, they have an abundance of arms and the option to trade either of their top two center fielders -- Ender Inciarte, a 2016 Gold Glove Award winner and valuable leadoff hitter, or Mallex Smith, who tasted some big league success before fracturing his thumb in June. The Braves are reluctant to trade Inciarte, who is under team control through the 2020 season, but his inclusion in a deal might lessen the value of pitching prospects that would need to be included in any package. And the Braves do have arms to deal -- from Aaron Blair and Matt Wisler, both of whom made big league starts in 2016, to top prospects Sean Newcomb, Kolby Allard, Ian Anderson, Mike Soroka, Touki Toussaint and Max Fried. The recent additions of Dickey and Colon give the Braves the ability to deal one or two of their young arms, if need be. The club would still have plenty of pitching depth, and those prospects would have yet another year to develop. But in a Sale deal, the Sox likely have their eye on middle infielder Ozzie Albies, who -- along with Newcomb -- is among MLBPipeline.com's top 50 overall prospects. The switch-hitting Albies suffered an elbow fracture in September but is expected to make a full recovery. The Braves no doubt envision him as the second part of a dynamic middle infield duo with shortstop Dansby Swanson. The Sox probably see the same thing with their own shorstop, Tim Anderson. The Braves will be far from the only suitors for Sale, however. The Dodgers, Rangers and Red Sox, all with deep farm systems of their own, are expected to be among the teams monitoring the market for Sale, a five-time All-Star. The Rangers have made starting pitching a priority this offseason and went hard after him at the Trade Deadline in July. Sale has made it clear he would prefer to remain with the White Sox despite a couple well-publicized disagreements with management over the past year. But at this point, his immediate future will be determined by the level of demand the Braves, Dodgers, Red Sox and other teams show in attempt to trade for a true ace amid a thin free-agent market for starting pitchers.
If we can keep Dansby and Ender (and Freeman, obviously) in a Sale deal, I'd be hard-pressed to absolutely hate what we put together. I've been hesitate my to trade prospects away or give big money deals because I don't want to rush what we're doing and fuck it up, but I think it's imperative we get an ace.
No thank you please. Sign Hammel to a 3 year deal then get one of the big guns next year. Arrieta, Darvish and a few others will be free agent.
Giving up young bats seems counterproductive to what we are trying to do. Pitching prospects is our currency
I would be inclined to move young arms packaged Mallex/Jace type players to get Sale. He's the rare ace that can steadily win throughout the season and win a couple of playoff series games. I'm not for including Dansby, Inciarte or Albies though I realize it may take one of them in the package. I'd like to keep that middle of the field trio around for awhile.
At some point we're gonna have to give up some of these highly ranked prospects that we've accumulated. Hopefully it'll be for the right piece and a solid No 1 starter could be that piece. This front office seems highly competent and thats refreshing. Maybe we slip in some prospects that we think aren't developing like they should, but more than likely we'll have to give up a few guys that will become legit MLB players. Either way Im excited about Braves baseball again.
i would be pretty salty if we lost Fried to the Rule 5 Braves face Rule 5 Draft decisions with Fried, Sims Prospects are most likely members of organization to be selected if left unprotected Max Fried and Lucas Sims are the Braves' No. 11 and No. 14 prospects, respectively. (MiLB.com) By Mark Bowman / MLB.com | @mlbbowman | 2:39 PM ET ATLANTA -- Max Fried and Lucas Sims are not yet ready to become candidates for Atlanta's starting rotation, but to protect against the possibility of losing either pitching prospect, the Braves might place them on their 40-man roster this week. All Major League clubs have until Friday to fill their 40-man rosters with any player they want to protect from being selected in December's Rule 5 Draft. Those eligible for selection include any player not on the 40-man roster who signed in 2012 at 18 years old or younger, or in '13 at 19 years or older. Atlanta will have four vacant spots on its 40-man roster once it adds veteran pitchers Bartolo Colon and R.A. Dickey after they complete their physical exams. Two of those spots could be filled by Fried and Sims, who would stand as the most likely members of the organization to be selected if left unprotected for the Rule 5 Draft. Jonathan Mayo joins Hot Stove to discuss the top prospects who will need to be protected in order to prevent selection in the Rule 5 Draft A team that makes a selection during the Major League phase of the Rule 5 Draft must pay $50,000 and commit to carrying the selected player on its active roster through the entirety of the following season. A selected player can be offered back to the original club for $25,000. Although Fried, the Braves' No. 11 prospect per MLBPipeline.com, has never pitched above the Class A level, there's certainly reason to protect against an organization (most likely from the American League) selecting him with the intent to essentially stash him in the bullpen for the 2017 season with the hope of eventually benefiting from his great potential as a starting pitcher. When Fried was taken by the Padres with the seventh overall selection in the 2012 MLB Draft, some scouts rated him higher than his high school teammate Lucas Giolito, the Nationals' right-hander who ranks as MLBPipeline.com's third-best overall prospect. Fried's rise toward the Majors was halted when he underwent Tommy John surgery in 2014. The 22-year-old lefty was traded to the Braves (the deal that sent Justin Upton to San Diego) that same offseason, and he rehabbed throughout '15. After missing nearly two full seasons, Fried rejuvenated his prospect status this past summer as he posted a 3.93 ERA and recorded 112 strikeouts over 103 innings for Class A Rome. He notched 10 strikeouts in both of his final two regular-season starts and then totaled 24 strikeouts while allowing two runs over 14 2/3 innings during the South Atlantic League playoffs. There may be some reason to debate whether a team would use a Rule 5 selection on No. 14 prospect Sims, who this year produced a 2.67 ERA in 17 starts for Double-A Mississippi and a 7.56 ERA in 11 appearances (10 starts) for Triple-A Gwinnett. He recorded 159 strikeouts in 141 innings, but he also enhanced lingering concerns about his command as he issued 92 walks. Still, even though Sims' ascent has not necessarily been as smooth as the Braves might have hoped when they selected him with the 21st overall pick in the 2012 Draft, his stuff is impressive enough for another organization to potentially take him in the Rule 5 Draft with the hope of helping him gain the consistent command he has lacked.