SCOTUS Thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by harvey birdman, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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    boot licking preparation
     
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  2. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
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    Im prob wrong because Im just a dumb laymen, but his questions seem pretty benign. Gorsuch seems like he's not buying their argument at all. Alito is trying to tee up the argument for them, but they're too dumb to hit it
     
  3. Bruce Wayne

    Bruce Wayne Billionaire Playboy
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    Gonna be sweet when this goes 5-4 on party lines
     
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  4. BrentTray

    BrentTray I’m thinking Dorsia.
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  5. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    public arguments are always just theater, even people on the scotus beat say trying to read the tea leaves of what they'll vote never works
     
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  6. BrentTray

    BrentTray I’m thinking Dorsia.
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    Alito is such a shit bird, partisan hack.

     
  7. Josey Wales

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    Boring Joe is worth his weight in Supreme Court nominations.
     
  8. Nandor the Relentless

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    Conservatives are going to lose their god damn minds when a power-hungry Democrat gets elected after all the shit they are letting Trump get away with, especially if SCOTUS rules in favor of Trump on this. Will be a bloodbath for Conservative ideals and largely wont be shit they can do about it if they don’t have a majority in Congress.
     
  9. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    How did it go today? I wasn't able to follow at all. Any hints on how they were leaning? Going to be embarrassing if they overturn all the lower courts bc of political pressure.
     
  10. bro

    bro Hey Hermano
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    in a normal world, the case is a slam dunk.

    In this world, it will take Roberts or Gorsuch to come over to the liberal side.
     
  11. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Any idea when they'll rule on it?
     
  12. BrentTray

    BrentTray I’m thinking Dorsia.
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    5-4 along party lines imo
     
  13. dblplay1212

    dblplay1212 Well-Known Member
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    Was asking how, not when. But yea if it goes that way, it's embarrassing. This isn't a left/right issue. It's a checks and balances issue. It's embarrassing that the case is even going to them. Every POTUS before Trump just complied.
     
  14. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor Clubbing seal clubbers with LeBron James
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    You dumbass, they'll just block it all using the supreme court.
     
  15. ANTWONE

    ANTWONE Hello
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    Just read through this guys twitter thread to see how it went
     
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  16. BellottiBold

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    ... pretty sure the assumption of the post is that the Democrats use their majorities to expand the court and pack it.
     
  17. Josey Wales

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    This shit all needs to be leaked in October
     
  18. Nandor the Relentless

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    Sure
     
  19. ShuPoor

    ShuPoor Clubbing seal clubbers with LeBron James
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    The Democrats would never do that, they're spineless cowards
     
  20. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Imagine how many mythical moderates they would offend with such an action
     
  21. Fran Tarkenton

    Fran Tarkenton Well-Known Member
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    the first case went not-so-well in relation to the conservative judges youre going to have to persuade to do the right thing. The attorney arguing for-the-subpoena did not outline a limiting principle, and these white men are going to ignore the Clinton case.

    I think the second case, Vance, could see a Roberts or Gorsuch swing things to split the baby. Ultimately, their aim is to avoid anything controversial and not upset donald's reelection chances.
     
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  22. 941Gator

    941Gator TMB's resident beach bum
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  23. Lipp the Gay Liberal

    Lipp the Gay Liberal Spartan Dawg
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    Nice job issuing the decision during Pride month too.
     
  24. Lipp the Gay Liberal

    Lipp the Gay Liberal Spartan Dawg
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    Never thought I’d see the day that phony textualism would come back and bite those ghouls in the ass. Well fucking played.
     
  25. Andy Reocho

    Andy Reocho Please don't get lost in the sauce
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  26. BudKilmer

    BudKilmer Well-Known Member
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  27. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    Phony textualism? You don't think actual text of the law should be paramount to the legal analysis? I thought the decision was well written and followed the only plausible argument that could bring transgender and sexual orientation into the protection of Title VII. I went into oral arguments siding with the conservative view, but was won over in oral arguments in the way the Court focused its questioning around the causation issue (which, admittedly, I hadn't really considered) rather than the meaning of "sex," which the Court unanimously agreed upon. I think the dissents were strong, too, and frankly don't think either outcome would have made bad law. Alito pointed out examples of where the Court's reasoning would not hold up and presented a good argument (which the plaintiffs conceded in oral argument) that Title VII shouldn't always necessarily include transgender/sexual orientation discrimination. Perhaps the majority opinion was too broad. I need to read it through. I've only skimmed it so far. While the dissents' separation of powers arguments were persuasive, that argument alone can't defeat the text of the law. This was a tough case imo.
     
    #78 Stagger Lee, Jun 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  28. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    I'm surprised Gorsuch and perhaps a couple of the liberal judges didn't join here
     
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  29. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Textualism is dumb for a lot of reasons none bigger than the fact that it conveniently chooses to ignore that language is inherently subjective. Statutory interpretation should be based on more than just the words on the paper because those words can often be interpreted in several ways. Legislative intent matters as well because it allows for our laws to be fluid to match a constantly changing world.

    Unless your motivations go beyond mere interpretation and instead lie somewhere less noble. Like, for example, maintaining white male power structures at the expense of everybody else.
     
  30. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    If the language is ambiguous, textualism gives way to other interpretive factors that are intended to provide evidence of the meaning of the law. To let those factors come in in the face of unambiguous text makes the court another legislature and undermines the constitutional structure and the rule of law. Courts should never make decisions based on public opinion or ever-changing notions of morality or fairness.

    Btw, if the court followed legislative intent in this decision, it would have been a 9-0 decision against the plaintiffs.
     
    #81 Stagger Lee, Jun 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  31. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    To add to my last post, interpretation shouldn't be fluid for the sake of a "constantly changing world." Good law properly applied should be be capable of application to all people and times. If it's not, then there are legislative mechanisms to fix the bad law. It isn't a suicide pact. What we can't have is the Court inserting itself into the legislative role to rewrite the law
     
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  32. Nandor the Relentless

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    Eat shit Alito
     
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  33. NCHusker

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    Can't disagree with any of that. I think we may differ on what constitutes ambiguous language. What I was trying to get at is that when laws are enacted, they can't possibly account for every future situation that might arise. They can do their best, and well crafted law will account for almost all situations, but I don't see what is to be gained by rigid interpretation of a dated law. The mechanisms you talk about to change laws can also be used to correct Supreme Court interpretations that the legislature doesn't agree with.
     
  34. NCHusker

    NCHusker We named our yam Pam. It rhymed.
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    Also when you have a Senate that is flagrantly and intentionally abdicating its duties that complicates things further for the Court. Maybe theoretically it shouldn't but practically it does.
     
  35. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    I'm surprised by this. Heller left a lot open and invited the court to make future rulings to outline the parameters of its rule. But it's not by accident that there weren't four justices willing to accept any of the cases.
     
  36. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    theres a tentative peace on gun rights on the court
     
  37. Stagger Lee

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    A law is ambiguous if it lends itself to more than one meaning. I can't think of any examples off hand as to how changes in future circumstances make the words of prior laws ambiguous. Maybe these changes cause the law to become bad law because its application to new situations yields bad results or maybe the meaning of the words of the law are vague or less certain when applied to new circumstance; but these aren't matters of ambiguity. Rigid application that yields bad results is an invitation for the legislature to change the law (or not and face the consequences with the voters).
     
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  38. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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  39. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    That would be a very John Roberts result.
     
  40. Lipp the Gay Liberal

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    This theory works, but the application does not. Our legislature is broken beyond repair.
     
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  41. Nelson

    Nelson Can somebody please get Ja Rule on the phone
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    This. The centrality of SCOTUS to American life, and these increasingly feisty legislative interpretative disputes, is directly caused by Congress’s abdication of its role
     
  42. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    These issues with the legislature—which are nothing new—are political matters, not matters for the court. The court doesn’t have authority to render decisions out of legislative expediency, not should it.
     
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  43. ashy larry

    ashy larry marcy projects, son
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    someone care to unpack the pipeline ruling? im not good at law
     
  44. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    It does when there is room in the law to do so. Your belief that the law is perfectly clear is very effectively rebutted by justices that describe themselves as textualists managed to come down on both sides of this case.

    The doctrine of textualism is nothing more than a way for smart people to frame their own biases. It’s a religion in that its adherents assert the word of god is clear and immutable even as other devotees come to very different conclusions. It’s time to grow up and realize that in order to an effective justice system we must have justices with a strong sense of morality independent of the law as that is what is going to be reflected in their rulings.

    Just as it always has been.
     
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  45. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
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    My 15 seconds of research seems to indicate it was mostly about the ability of the executive branch to do a thing. They have apparently been empowered to do that thing.
     
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  46. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    A judicial system developed by Judge’s “morality independent of the law.” What could go wrong
     
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  47. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    i guess pretending these aren't all politically motivated decisions makes you feel better?
     
  48. Stagger Lee

    Stagger Lee Crazy. Sexy. Cool.
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    case about who has the authority to issue pipeline permits under Appalachian Trail
    —Forest Service or Parks Service. Court ruled Forestry Service had authority
     
  49. Lyrtch

    Lyrtch My second favorite meat is hamburger
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    this two step where we understand where an ideological movement started and why it was created but pretend it is somehow separated from the movement that created it is bizarre

    like whats the goal of the federalist society and all their workshops, ideological pressure on law schools, taking over of the SC nominating process, on and on?