that last bit would be where it would get silly instead of awesome, to me. surprise us with a COUPLE of employees being robots. everyone being a robot would be stupid as shit. Maeve heard Arnold's voice so you can't assume Ford is the one reprogramming her unless you think Ford is Arnold using the Bicameral Device. That's what I gathered from Elsie-Bernardo conversations before she got nabbed. We know for a fact "Arnold" is reprogramming them, which I don't think Ford has any part of especially if you watched the scene with little boy Ford lying to old Ford about killing the dog and why.
the whole scene of her post-coitus was sexy as a motherfucker. and she looked 10/10 being the bad bitch in the following scene too where they do the clementine demonstration
Sucks but, unless they've got something in their back pocket, I would rather them do this then try to throw some shit together like True Detective 2. It's an incredibly ambitious show. Writing, shooting and producing it in ~8 months is a recipe for disaster.
Also, it's a perfect setup for them to put the show in the spring as an Emmy contender. Makes a difference to put it closer to voting time.
So I'm convinced one of William/Logan dies (the death in the incident 30 years "ago") and the other becomes MIB while Teddy is put in the Westworld to keep Dolores from looking for the maze again. Reasons to believe William is MIB and Logan dies: The "last page" thing William knows Lawrence's name MIB was "born in the park" and William clearly undergoes some transformation MIB and William have the same color eyes while Logan's are different Reasons to believe Logan is MIB and William dies: The first shot we see of William is a reflection on the train and it kind of looks like he is dead in a coffin Logan and MIB both wear black while William wears White Logan and MIB both talk of deeper meanings to the game and easter eggs Logan and MIB both refer to the Hector character as "market-tested" MIB has a real fancy gun, Logan is all about the upgrades MIB doesn't seem attached to Dolores at all unlike William MIB seems to be the head of a major corporation or some shit and Logan seems like in his future he will also be that Logan and MIB both talk about saving Westworld Logan and MIB share more mannerisms than William and MIB Teddy seems to basically be William I'm sure I'm missing a few things for each side and sure I could extrapolate more evidence for each side but this is how I see it as it sits now.
God I absolutely love this show. Finally got caught up this week and was able to watch last night. The soundtrack is incredible. When they play this number during some of the more powerful scenes I get chills.
I wonder if William kills Logan and Dolores doesn't stop him or, Dolores kills Logan and William helps cover it up. This prompts the corporate take over.
Exactly...banging hector. Assume anything that a host can hear can be heard by Ford. He was repeating what was heard in an ominous sarcastic way or he was in on it from the beginning.
Did anyone else find it interesting that the song in the saloon this time was the normal background music instead of a reproduction of a classic song?
Stolen from reddit. "The interviews are in the future, post Bernard killing Theresa. He is planning a coup."
Interesting. Like in the first episode when he's talking to Dolores and tells her what her reality is?
So what are Bernard's next steps? He comes to terms with being a robot/killing Theresa or Ford wipes his memory and things just start all over for him?
It would be great if Bernard becomes what Arnold's vision of hosts would be and goes to war with Ford
JFC how many timelines does Reddit think they've got??? And assuming multiple timelines that would make THREE SEPARATE TIMES that Dolores becomes self aware. 1- original trip with William 2- currently after the Abernathy picture ordeal where the computer code Arnold is guiding her 3- future bernardobot self awareness chats
There's someone named Arnold involved that is talking to the hosts. Ford asking Dolores if Arnold was talking to her again implies he's real/was real
From some story on the internet: Bernard Lowe is anagram for Arnold Weber. We don't know "Arnold's" last name yet, but something to look for if Bernard was created in Arnold's likeness.
I would have to go back and watch, but I believe there are other references to Arnold from Elsie and also from Logan. In Logan's case, not by name though.
I was kinda expecting it. It was the first time in awhile that we saw a train arriving in Sweetwater like that. I did like how Maeve was just like... I've heard this song so many fucking times and closes the piano.
Did Ford know that bernarnold was going to be fired? Was he trying to smoke out the traitor?. Did he orchestrate all that too occur just to get rid of the chick that bernarnold killed?
A have a bigger what if... What if many more or even everyone was a host. Again, I don't believe this. I am just testing the boundaries of the theories so far. This is not a theory as much as it is just thinking bigger picture to focus in on what we really do know. There was something that happened in the last episode that seemed bigger and certainly leads me to believe there are a lot more hosts who are believed to be human than one may seem. That is the scene where they have Clementine bash the other hosts skull in. We were told that she was programmed so that Clementine and other hosts would see the dude as a human. That means this likely wasn't the first time that happened or there would have been "how did you do that" type reactions to the idea of it. Again, I don't believe this, but what if the original event was the catalyst for seeding hosts into the real world?
I think you're close on this. The fact that was mentioned... it's very interesting. That's the first we've heard of hosts being programmed to be perceived as humans (by other hosts). Leads me to believe there are many. I'm loving this show.
I don't think he knew they'd fire Bernard, but he obviously knew what was going on with the demonstration. The demonstration itself seems all fucky to me. If there needed to be a "blood sacrifice" then why did they use another host to show clementine could hurt a human? They say he's programmed to trigger as human to the other hosts... so they just take their word for it? That proves nothing IMO. Although clementine did attempt to pounce on Stubbs. But I'm more inclined now to believe he's a host as well. Still team Elsie is real tho.
I just wonder which other scenes from Bernard (or others for that matter) have given us an altered version of reality.
Yeah, need to go back and watch again. Very convinced the old Bernard/Delores interviews were Arnold/Delores interviews. Him telling her about the maze confirms that for me.
I called Delores an unreliable narrator before but it seems now that there's many other possible points of view altered and manipulated from certain perspectives. It's like Elliot from Mr. Robot. Can't trust that kid.
Lots, imo. They'll be shown to us during some big reveal later in the season. Episode 9 is supposed to be bloody as hell, and episode 10 is 91 minutes long. Fuck yea.
i don't think the hosts are out in the real world. otherwise hale wouldn't be trying to get ford out so they can get the ip. it's also not the first time a host has recognized another host as human. in the first episode clem gives teddy the speech about no rind and whatnot.
Hell of an interview with the producers based solely off the latest episode. Lots of good info: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/13/westworld-interview-bernard-clementine Spoiler This piece contains massive spoilers about Sunday night’s episode of Westworld HBO’s Westworld had a seismic shake-up Sunday night, impacting several major characters. First, the show’s likable chief programmer Bernard Lowe (Jeffrey Wright) was revealed to secretly be a robotic host. Not only that, but Ford then ordered Bernard to violently murder his ex-lover, Delos corporate quality assurance head Theresa Cullen (Sidse Babett Knudsen), to halt an attempt to push Ford into retirement. Plus, there was also a shocking scene where host Clementine Pennyfeather (Angela Sarafyan) was brutally beaten as part of a demo, and then had her personality drilled out of her. Below showrunners Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy give us the lowdown on episode 7, “Trompe L’Oeil.” Also see our interview with Westworld star Jeffrey Wright where he gives his thoughts on the Bernard reveal. Entertainment Weekly: At what point did you know that Bernard was a host? Was that from the very beginning or evolve along the way? Jonathan Nolan: Bernard has been a host from the beginning. But we were careful with Jeffrey. Lisa Joy: We were careful with Jeffrey because we wanted him to be fully lovable and human and believable, but also to understand that underneath he’s playing something else. We let him in pretty early on. He’s such a skilled actor he was able to play a robot thinking he’s a human very well, he’s playing it on a couple different levels at the same time, and absolutely brilliant about it. We didn’t want him to feel like we pulled the rug out from under him. I’m going to be so excited when this episode airs because it’s so tricky for me when doing press to not give away spoilers about Jeffrey’s character. How did Jeffrey react when you told him? Joy: He’s such a wonderful, talented man, and we sat him down and we were going through it, “This is all going to happen, and, by the way, you’re a robot.” He just sat there for a second like: “Oh. Ohhh. All right then.” I’ve been such a fan of Jeffrey for so many years and always dreamt of working with him. And when he first came on board I told him, “Jeffrey, I know what you’re capable of, and goddamnit, I’m gong to use all of it.” And that’s our plan. It’s this double punch reveal because you learn about him and at the same time lose Theresa Cullen in the same scene – and Ford has him commit this act Bernard would never consciously do. You compound the reveal of his nature by having him do something that horrifies us. Joy: It horrifies us, and it horrifies him. It’s a betrayal of everything that he — as a man he thought he was — believed in. He had real feelings for Theresa. It’s meant to make the sadness and the horror of his manipulation all the more real because it has such costs. Ford echoes the board rep Charlotte telling Cullen that there needs to be a “blood sacrifice,” which I believe was only said between the two of them. So is the whole place bugged or is there something else I’m missing there? Joy: What you might be missing is there was a host on the bed behind them when she said that — Hector. Ford has access to that kind of stuff. Oh, that’s right! Of course. And I take it the reason Ford’s father-host does not respond to other people’s voice commands and is all aggressive to Bernard when he came into the cabin last week because he partly serves the purpose of keeping people away from the secret lab? Nolan: That’s part of it. That area that they’re operating in is one the hosts are programmed to avoid. And given the scope and scale of the park, it’s one where they won’t come around to, if at all. Technicians are maneuvered away from that area. It’s a bit of a black hole in the park. It’s a place where Ford can go and get away from it all and spend time with his family. That those hosts are not programmed to respond to anyone but Ford speaks again to the insidious level of control that he’s built into the park from the beginning. It’s wheels within wheels. Like we’ve established the techs can control the hosts with voice commands, but it turns out that’s not necessarily the case — it’s only because Ford allows them to. I also want to ask about Clementine in this episode. The scene where she gets beaten is going to get an strong reaction from viewers, I suspect. Joy: For me, it’s one of those scenes I find the most emotional this season. Not only because this scene where they have one host abuse her — it’s so harrowing — but weirdly I get more emotional when she starts beating him back, because I’m like, “Kill everyone, Clementine, kill everyone!” And when she’s stopped in her tracks I get so mad. And Angela in this scene, within the plot of this series, they would have to pick somebody [for the rigged demo] you would never see coming. That’s how you sell the idea the hosts are dangerous. She’s the most innocent, the most loving of all of them. She’s like this delicate bunny rabbit. And Angela is like this gentle, kind, etherial creature with an incredible sense of movement and grace. And when you take all the power and intelligence — both in an actor and in her character — and then you unleash it, you get to see a wonderful scene. Then she’s apparently lobotomized. We’re so used to the hosts coming back to life over and over again. Does this mean Clementine has been “killed off”? Nolan: It’s a little more complicated than that. They’re physically removing part of her personality. It’s like when the NSA has a hard drive they want to get rid of. They don’t just erase it, they drill holes in it. The mind of the hosts are organized similar to a human mind, with that frontal lobe containing most of the code for her personality. So the person we know as Clementine is largely gone. We see the train carrying Dolores and William and it’s going on and on and the park is starting to seem impossibly vast. They talk about how the park’s biggest value is in the code but I can’t help but wonder, especially since this is set in the future, wouldn’t the biggest value be in the real estate. Will it make sense to us at some point how large this place is? Nolan: If you drive across the Western United States — and I don’t think that’s where the park is located — but if you do that … we were pretty rigorous about the scope and scale of it, about size of the park. It’s within 500 square miles. I think Ted Turner owns that much in Mexico. It’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility that a park this size would exist here in America. Finally, a couple of host-mechanics questions I’ve wondering about, that seem like they might be increasingly relevant: Can you say how are the hosts powered? Like do they need to recharge? Do they eat? Nolan: Their construction and their power source is something we’re really going to get into during season 2. So we’d like to keep that mysterious. They’re closer to biological than they are to mechanical, but they don’t suffer brain death the same way we do. They’re largely indistinguishable from a human beings, but their brains don’t require oxygen — which opens up interesting possibilities. Their brains are not as fragile as ours. On one hand, their cognition is controllable and malleable, but on a structural level they can’t be killed in the same way you and I can. There are advantages and disadvantages to being a host. Season 2 we’ll be exploring more the nuts and bolts of what they are— as the hosts themselves are trying to understand.
is there a difference in them just taking Abernathy and the rest of them down to the freezer and turning them off vs. lobotomizing clementine? they've never shown a robot get a lobotomy either. die
don't remember that scene. thought Bernard or another employee actually spoke to Abernathy before they walked into the freezer... no?
Has anyone mentioned the Shakespeare quote "These violent delights have violent ends" being a voice command for the hosts to start questioning their reality? That's what Dolores' dad said to her when he was malfunctioning over the picture. What he said to Ford during the inspection seemed like he was starting to catch on. After Dolores hears that line she then realized in her conversation with Teddy that "someday" means never and started to feel like her life was a lie. In episode 3 she's in town and says the quote to Maeve, who then wakes up during surgery and continues to do so. Just a thought. Sidenote: I'm starting to think Bernard is a host.
Yea, that's been the thought from the early pages of this thread. It triggers something in the hosts.