placing some culpability on Admin too. all this because he didn’t want to play kickball. just give my man detention or in-school suspension and keep it moving.
Detention for not playing kick ball? Fuck that. If you don't want to play, just sit in the bleachers and read a book.
tend to agree- if i was the coach that’s what i’d do. it’s not that serious. but i imagine most schools have “defiance” on their discipline matrix. not complying with an admin trying to remove you from the class is defiance. but that’s a lower level offense so detention or administrative conference is typically the consequence. i do this every day. involving the SRO is some bullshit. every adult in this (coach, admin, sro) escalated
you give the student the choice do what he is asked or get out the class and have his counselor find him another class. The students can’t be allowed to pick and chose what they are going to do. My wife had a “disruptive” student the other day. I put disruptive in quotes because he wasn’t doing anything more than not wanting to follow the class assignment. She gave him the option of participating or leaving and finding another class. He made his choice. There was no need for any cop to man handle a student.
You can’t have students pick and choose what part of the curriculum they’re willing to participate in. Is he allowed to not take tests because he doesn’t feel like it? Where do you draw the line? If he isn’t willing to participate get him to a class that he will participate in. There are a ton of options that don’t involve calling cops. Kids have to be taught that there are consequences to your actions. Saying “fuck it I’m not doing the assignment” isn’t something that should be allowed to happen without consequences.
if he is sick then that’s something else. What I’m saying is letting students dictate what they are going to participate in (without a valid excuse) shouldn’t be allowed. I’m also saying that there is no reason to call in a cop in that situation. I want to be clear that I’m in no way condoning or advocating what the adults did in this situation. What I am saying is “oh he doesn’t want to it so he shouldn’t have to” isn’t a valid argument.
When it's playing kickball, he should absolutely get to decide if he wants to do it. It's fucking kickball. Gym is a time that kids can play games if they want but forcing them to play kickball is really really dumb. He shouldn't have to give a reason why he doesn't want to do that. "I don't want to get my shoes dirty by kicking a fucking ball" is sufficient. Literally any reason is. "I don't want to sweat", "I bruise easily", "I just don't fucking want to." All acceptable, go sit in the bleachers and chill.
As long as he wasn't causing a disruption to everyone else they should have just given him a detention and ignored him while he either sat in the bleachers or played basketball by himself off to the side. There wasn't any reason to escalate the situation beyond that.
In middle school PE people who couldn’t/didn’t want to participate got a worksheet that had sections for an athlete’s hometown/childhood, collegiate or related, pro, significant accomplishments, and such. The teacher would come up with a name and we would have to go to the library and fill it out. Had a bunch of those when I broke my arm. He’d say them, but not write it, so not knowing how to even begin to research Lou Alcindor did me in one time. Anyway, fuck every adult involved In this.
lol. I remember (maybe I’m mistaken) you said your mom was a teacher. If so this is such a weird take. You can’t have kids pick and choose what classroom activities they’ll participate in. I mean if you’re saying this kid should just fail the class then fuck it I guess. He doesn’t have to do shit in any class and fail everything. But, he shouldn’t be allowed to believe his actions don’t have consequences.
I agree with everything except for allowing him to play basketball. He should have gotten detention and sat on bleachers. Allowing him to run his own program tells all the students they can do whatever they want to and a teacher can’t run and control a class like that.
there’s alot of ways to handle that without getting admin involved. once admin’s involved there’s even more ways to handle it without getting an SRO involved. either way i think we can agree criminalizing student behavior (and putting actual predators in positions to do so) is fucked.
My mom was never a teacher. It's not a class. It's fucking GYM. You grasp that part, right? Even if it was English class and he's told to read something, he can stare out the window if he chooses. They can't force him to do anything. If it's a test and he refuses to take it, he fails. But he doesn't fail for not reading when instructed to. A coach can't force someone to go play fucking kickball.
I meant he would still get the detention even if he was playing basketball away from everyone else. Calling the SRO should only happen if he's creating enough of a distraction that it is preventing class from taking place.
dblplay1212 it might sound ridiculous but gym teachers have to turn in lesson plans and shit, get evaluated on them/their classroom management, etc. they might incorporate free play or whatever from time to time but it’s typically not a free for all in there.
this might the dumbest take I’ve ever read. It’s why public schools are failing I don’t care if it’s gym or honors/ AP whatever. It’s a class and he should do what he is assigned. Allowing him to do whatever the fuck he wants sends a wrong message to the rest of the students and does him a disservice. .mThe lack of teacher support in public schools is sickening. It’s gym class. It’s a class. He has to do what he is assigned or fail. My wife was in a situation where a student refused to do something he was assigned. She gave him the option to do the assignment or leave her class. She doesn’t have the luxury of allowing students to run their own program. She would quickly lose control if she did. She can’t make them do anything but she does have the power to kick them out of her class and or fail them if they refuse. Saying they don’t have to and not face any consequences for their actions is bullshit. Life doesn’t work that way.
1. Why did you bold me pointing out you confusing me with someone else? 2. A kid shouldn't be forced into a physical activity they don't want to do. Period. 3. Comparing gym to an actual learning class is laughable. If a kid doesn't do an assignment in a learning class, but isn't interrupting the other kids, why throw them out? Just give them a failing grade. That's the consequences in that scenario. 4. Again, its kickball. No kid should be forced to play that game. As you said earlier, where do you draw the line? Teacher says they have to run 10 miles, that ok? Teacher says they have to play football, that ok? Hell no. Kids shouldn't be forced to participate in a physical activity they don't want to do. 5. You're biased bc your wife is a teacher.
Give kids options to participate in our sit out while other do. Kids shouldn't be forced to play a game they don't want to play.
I am biased because my wife a teacher. 99% of her students are good kids but she does have to deal with shitheads and she can’t allow the shitheads to fuck it up for everyone else. If you’re saying fail the kid if he doesn’t participate then we agree and there is nothing to argue. I also don’t think a kid should be forced to do anything they don’t want to do as long as there consequences for their actions. You don’t want to participate cool as long as you understand you’re not going to pass the class. A kid not wanting to participate in a a “learning” classroom assignment is disturbing the class and needs to be addressed. He is illustrating that he is in charge and not the teacher. A classroom can’t run properly in that environment.
Bullshit. The kid sitting there staring off into space doesn't affect anyone but them. If the teacher can't deal with someone not following their orders even though it affects nobody else is the same shit we get mad at cops for. If their ego can't handle a kid not following their orders and have to call to have him removed when he's not affecting anyone else when they could just give him a bad grade, they need to find a new job. There should be no consequences for not wanting to participate in a physical activity.
Huh? Not once did I say the cops should have been called. In the post you quoted I literally said they shouldn’t have been called. I am just saying a kid shouldn’t be allowed to say “ I don’t feel like doing X so I’m not” without consequences (failing grade, kicked out of class, detention). I’m hard pressed to think of a time cops should be called where life isn’t in danger. Although we’ve learned that in those situations cops are useless.
you literally don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about. You’re talking out your ass. I also never said they should call anyone to remove them. I literally have argued against that so IDK what you’re going off about.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills because all I’ve said is the kid should face consequences for his actions. None of which involve calling a fucking cop or having an adult put his hands on him.
There should be more consequences for not participating in a physical activity. Kids are there to learn, not play kickball.
yea in this case there’s a wide range of options between doing nothing and calling a cop. coach: give a zero. maybe write it up if it’s a habitual thing but chose your battles. it’s not a huge thing. not something admin needs to be called for. maybe took it personally idk. being a teacher is tough. admin: you’re called into the situation so at that point you just need to get the kid to come with you to talk about it. don’t make it a huge thing. need to see the nurse? counselor? just being an asshole? not a huge thing, don’t escalate. if the kid won’t comply call him later once he’s had time to cool off and doesn’t feel ganged up on in front of his peers. consequence isn’t unreasonable at that point imo. i know admins who would suspend. definitely not something you need to call the sro on. sro: get fucked.
It was ego and power trip at every level. Proper way to handle it: Coach: Hey we're going to play kickball. Who wants to play? Kid: I'm out on this one coach. Coach: Aight cool. Going to play basketball after this. You in? Kid: Yep Coach: OK cool. You're picking first so start putting together your team. Instead the coach got in his feelings bc a kid didn't want kick a fucking ball when he told him to.
She told do the assignment or leave the class. He refused to do the assignment so he left the class. She didn’t call anyone to come get him. She has a relationship with her students. She knows what she can and can’t allow. She had a student that refused to do anything ever. She couldn’t allow him to just sit in her class and do nothing.
we agree every adult made this situation worse. you sound very very idealistic and naive about the realities of managing 30-40 kids though. “i have an activity for us, who wants to participate” is not serious
Why? It's gym. No kid should be forced to participate in a physical activity and shouldn't face consequences if they don't. Kids aren't in school to learn kickball.
she’s not a babysitter. She is there to teach those that want to be taught not a dick that wants to take up space. Also let’s not pretend we weren’t kids. She let him get away with that he’d take more and other students would follow suit.
Was he interrupting the class? If not, what harm is he doing? Its not like they had kids outside waiting on a seat. If the kid is just sitting there staring off into space, removing them accomplishes nothing but stroking the teacher's ego on a power trip. It's the same shit we bag on cops for. "You won't do exactly what I say? Well even though you're not hurting anything, let me show you who's boss!"
so now you’re arguing students shouldn’t do class assignments and teachers should be like “cool fuck it do you”? If you think teachers wanting students to do the work is “an ego trip” and the same as cops then we shouldn’t really continue because we aren’t going to agree. When G starts school you’re going to be cool with her failing classes because she “doesn’t feel like doing the work”?
Encourage them to do it, if they don't while not interrupting anyone, give them a failing grade. What does removing them accomplish other than showing power? I'm G's parent. If she's not participating, I'll have that conversation with her. Don't create a scene and throw her out of class so you can get off on a power trip.
When you say he has to leave the class, you are starting down that road. Because when he says “I’m not leaving” what are you going to do next? It becomes a needless battle for authority.
I’m confused right now because in my post you quoted I said nothing about removing the kid from the class. This is my post you quoted. I don’t say this kid should have been kicked out the class. I don’t say they should have called the cops. I don’t know what you think I am arguing. I just think without a valid reason students should do what the teacher assigns or face some sort of consequence (failing grade, detention etc).
Because that’s what this entire police interaction was about. I guess I’m the idiot for staying on topic?
you’re arguing with me about something I said shouldn’t have happened. They shouldn’t have called the cops. They shouldn’t have kicked the kid out of class. The adults in that situation failed the kid. I don’t know what you disagree with me about. Like I said I’m confused about what you think I am saying because not once have I said the adults were justified in their behavior in the situation.