Gun Control Debate Thread: So we don't trash the Texas Thread

Those illegal guns that are being bought and sold as burners/etc aren't going to disappear if you ban handguns. You'd probably just flood the market with more untraceable guns but that's just my opinion.

 

Unfortunately that's even less likely than sensible gun regulation.

 

They certainly aren't when we have irresponsible tards like this leaving their guns around in unsecure locations

 

I really like our current stance of addressing neither.

 

That will be immensely more expensive given the fact that doing it illegally is the only method of procuring one.

 

I can't imagine how much an illegal weapon would be once production in this country stops and handguns are illegal.

 

There's no need to address either since the real problem is "evil."

 

It'd be absurd. And again, why wouldn't they just rob you and keep both the money and the gun?

Right now it's reasonable to expect that you might be packing if you're buying a gun illegally. That assumption would not be the same if all guns were illegal.

 

I want to do a survey on how many people on this site have sold drugs, and see how many of them would sell guns if they were illegal.

I guarantee you tons of people on here have sold drugs, and they wouldn't even consider selling illegal weapons.

 

It's always baffled me that more cops aren't for gun control. Guns are at the root of so many of these altercations between civilians and cops. you never know who has a gun.

 

I didn't even think about this aspect, but it would be an amount that would raise flags if you withdrew that type of money from your account. You'd have to be holding onto that cash yourself or be able to explain a $5000+ purchase on your taxes.

 

Yea situations like that are the primary source if illegal guns today. You're such an idiot.

 

This thread makes it easy to spot those that like participation trophies

 

Yayy more govt. Lets give the IRS more power, right? Theyve been known to be excellent at their jobs providing unbiased tax services.

Sit this one out

 

That's never going to happen and harping on it is not constructive. Great example of the no compromising from either side though.

 

Yes, I do. I see it happen all the time. I'm not going into details at the moment but you would be surprised how easy it is to get a firearm. They change hands constantly. Its pretty scary but it happens all the time.

 

Would you care to comment on any of my other posts? You call out one of the logical, and don't fucking act like that's not the truth, hurdles to owning a gun in this scenario.

 

Yes, but that's because they are legal to own and manufacture, so careless people allow them to fall into the hands of criminals all the fucking time.

And they go "oh well, I guess I lost that $400 gun, I'll go buy another one legally."

 

Gotta love swimfan just throwing out rhetoric and not actually discussing anything or presenting facts.

 

Yeah I suppose. They will never do it so its pointless.

 

What's an acceptable amount of loss for you to own guns?

 

A) every time you purchase illegal drugs do you realize you are engaging in an activity that directly contradicts your idea about how to control gun violence in this country? If making something illegal reduces the availability.... supply and demand exist independent of laws. If there is a demand for something, it will be supplied, legally or illegally (or both).

B) what's incentive does your drug dealer have to not straight up rob you?

 

I'd like to also do a poll on how many current legal, law abiding gun owners would turn over all of their guns if that's what they were legally required to do tomorrow. I think that will illustrate the difficulty you will have enacting and enforcing such a law.

 

But it's not impossible. That's what I'm saying. Part of the hurdle is the fact that everyone goes "well we can't stop this " when we can.

You should not have to walk down the street and think that some little twerp is capable of killing you from a distance or sneaking up on you without you seeing it coming unless it's a knife. That shouldn't be something you are even concerned about.

 

Are you willing to take the lives of law abiding gun owners?

 

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

 

Wut

 

A. It's a drug and I'm buying it from a person who is just like me. I might not sell drugs, but I wouldn't totally be against doing it. Mainly because it's just carrying around a few pills and the consequences of getting caught aren't very dire. Slap on the wrist the first time.

People like me would not be involved in the illegal arms dealing business. Real hard hitting I might murder you type of people are the only type that get involved in black market arms dealing.

B.) I might have a gun on me. Are you serious? I might kill them if they try to rob me.

If guns aren't legal, and I'm having to buy a gun illegally, then chances are I need one since I don't own one. The arms dealer will understand this fact. He'll understand you have $5,000 and no gun.

 

So you are saying that possessing a gun, or even the threat of possessing a gun is an adequate deterrent to a criminal looking to rob you or do you harm?

And your solution is to disarm "everyone"? And you think the illegal arms dealer you are talking about here is going to turn all of his gun over? Interesting. Go ahead and play that out in your head and let's see where the errors in your idea are.

 

Everyone will act all hard and say they wouldn't. Here's my logistics on making guns illegal:

First of all there would be a massive buyback program where you turn in your guns and ammo. There would be a window for you to do this before the law would go into effect. For a while people would be all fuck that or they'd turn in all but one. But over time most people would follow orders because most people (60-70% or so) actually will comply with laws.

Then the law would go into effect and people would start getting busted for having them. People would start seeing the harsh penalties being handed out for possessing them and they'd turn them in at that point.

There would still be plenty out there, but you couldn't just be packing all the time. You'd have it at your house for the most part. And gun violence would pop up from time to time, but not nearly at the current rate.

Over time it'd be difficult to even find a working one because most people wouldn't do the upkeep. Sure you could find one on the black market, but it'd be difficult and you'd have to pay out the ass for it and you'd have to deal with a shady mother fucker in order to do it.

In the meantime, less and less people are getting killed by the police because they aren't worried about you having a gun, and even when they do kill an unarmed man they're prosecuted unless they have had clear knowledge that you possessed a firearm.

It's really not that difficult if people will just get on board. I promise this would be a better country for it.

 

Can we stop equating drugs to guns? The victim of drugs is the user. The victims of guns are everyone else.

 

Good way to avoid a direct question and simply illustrates how pointless, naive, and unreasonable the ban guns argument is.

Good day, gentlemen.

 

I wasn't avoiding anything. I don't understand what you posted. I'm not for killing anyone. It was an odd question to me and I don't understand the point.

 

I just want to know where THs intimate knowledge of the black market for guns comes from.

And why is it all or nothing? Why is it ban all handguns? Gun owners have proposed far more likely options and y'all just keep harping on ban handguns.

 

When I'm making illegal purchases, yes possessing a gun is a deterrent to the criminal I'm buying it from. I'm not worried about my personal protection when I'm buying a fucking cheeseburger.

The illegal arms dealers will exist. They will just be difficult as fuck to find. A lot more difficult than finding fucking weed. No he's not gonna turn his guns over, but he's gonna be ecstatic because his prices will be able to go through the roof.

It's also going to be harder for him to find his products though because legal guns aren't just laying around all over the place any more.

 

I don't think the equivalency begin drawn was the harm, I think it was the availability of illegal things if there is a demand for them

 

Because there are no positives for most of the population with the negatives being grave.

 

Because those more likely options don't solve the problem that "everyone at any time MIGHT have a handgun on them" causes.

 

Can someone go find some dynamite for me? Find it. I guarantee you it's out there for purchase. At one time you were able to purchase it at a fucking hardware store.

Hell it's still used in mining. Shouldn't be that hard to find, should it?

 

why is it only when you are making illegal purchases that a gun or the threat of a gun is a deterrent?? When that gun dealer wants to rob your house, you don't think the threat of you owning a gun is the same deterrent? When he wants to rape you, you don't think having a gun is a deterrent? What about when you are buying the illegal drugs you buy? ONLY when purchasing a gun??

So this government buyback program will take guns from gang bangers, drug dealers, no serial numbers, etc? I've seen the number of guns at 300 million. at $200 a piece, which is not market value, that's $60,000,000,000. More realistically, and if they are giving fair value, it would push the $100B where is that money coming from??? And we haven't even bought a single bullet back yet.

 

How many illegal arms dealers do you think will exist? Who is most likely to rob your house right now? Probably a methhead looking for ways to get money. That guy isn't going to be able to afford a gun at that point or he's sold it to an arms dealer. An arms dealer isn't gonna be involved in petty crime since he has bigger fish to fry.

You wouldn't pay a little bit more to make sure some thug has a hard fucking time accessing a weapon? I'd be all about a tax increase to ensure that is the case. And shit, we spend way more than $60B on our military spending. Just take it out of that fund if you don't want a tax increase.

 

if you are trying to save lives, get the most "bang for your buck" so to speak, there are other issues that kill far more people than guns. I'm not saying you can't do both, or all of the above, but the intense focus on guns as if it's the #1 killer of people....

 

You see no negatives associated with only criminals only having guns?

 

Not sure why I even came into this thread. It's the same rhetoric every time gun control is discussed here. It falls into personal attacks and no one on either side changes their mind.

 

Do you not see how much more difficult it would be to possess a gun in this system?

Most petty criminals are poor. If they have a gun it will be worth a lot more in this market and they'll sell it. Then they won't be able to afford another one after they piss that money away.

 

You are missing the point. the potential of a gun in my house acts as a deterrent to the meth head looking to break into my house. When he KNOWS I don't have one, he is more likely to break into my home. This isn't about the meth head getting a gun, it's about him thinking I have one (just like your gun dealer thinking you have one, so he isn't goign to rob you).

 

I think fewer people with handguns is a very good thing, yes. I'm not sure if that answers your question but i don't really understand your question.

 

Is someone personally attacking you?

 

Just do this one thing before you leave. Tell me how to get your hands on some dynamite. No one will answer that question. It was once very common to the point where you could argue "now only criminals will have it" at that time.

It shouldn't be hard to find a method of procuring dynamite. So tell me how you would go about doing it.