I'm just going to make this the new vaccination thread

Discussion in 'The Mainboard' started by FactsRule, Apr 22, 2015.

  1. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesSwansea

    it looks like California is trying to close the religious exemption loophole.

    Bill removing California vaccine exemptions approved by key Senate panel
    PATRICK MCGREEVY
    [​IMG]
    Calif. bill forcing most parents to vaccinate children clears first hurdle

    The measure by Democratic Sens. Richard Pan of Sacramento and Ben Allen of Santa Monica would eliminate the option of parents to exempt their children from vaccinations based on a “personal belief,” meaning the only waiver available would be for medical reasons.

    “While this bill won’t reach everyone, it will increase everyone’s safety against preventable diseases," Allen told the committee Wednesday. "We think we've struck a fair balance here that provides more options to parents who are concerned about not vaccinating their children."

    Sen. Connie Leyva (D-Chino) voted against the bill, which was approved by a vote of 7-2. "I just still have a concern it will not go far enough to help a two-income family who can't home-school their child or a single, working parent."

    More than a hundred opponents of the bill, many wearing red shirts, packed the committee hearing Wednesday and many said afterward they would continue their opposition as the bill heads to Judiciary Committee.

    “I am shocked and disappointed,” said Tina Kimmel, an opponent who said she is a former research scientist with the Department of Public Health.

    More than 13,500 California kindergarten students have waivers due to their parents' personal beliefs, including 2,764 based on religious beliefs, state health statistics show.

    The measure was introduced partly in response to a measles outbreak that began at Disneyland and eventually infected 131 California residents as well as at least 26 people in seven other states, Canada and Mexico.

    However, many parents and their children testified against the measure last week, saying they didn't believe vaccines were safe and worried that the bill would deprive young people of the right to an education. Committee members including Chairwoman Carol Liu (D-La Cañada-Flintridge) had voiced similar concerns last week.

    Since then, Pan and Allen changed their bill to broaden an exemption for home-schooled children by deleting reference to students having to be members of the same household or family. That would allow multiple families to join in home-schooling their children and also receive the vaccination exemption.

    Another change would add an exemption for students enrolled in an independent study program run by a public school system.

    Pan did not agree to an amendment proposed by some committee members that would have still allowed exemptions from vaccines on religious grounds.

    “Religious exemptions are vulnerable to abuse and indeed are abused by people whose reasons for not vaccinating are not religious,” said Shannan Martinez, a spokeswoman for Pan.

    Liu voted for the measure even though she said it "has a long way to go" to fully address her concerns. Among the two Republican members of the committee, Sen. Sharon Runner of Lancaster opposed the bill and Sen Andy Vidak of Hanford voted for the measure.

    At a press conference Tuesday with polio victims, Pan said he believed the amendments, to be approved next week, address the major concerns of members of the Education Committee on the issue of home-schooling.

    “Let’s not forget there are children who cannot be immunized. These children deserve protection. They need to be safe," Pan said
     
  2. Duck70

    Duck70 Let's just do it and be legends, man
    Donor
    Oregon Ducks

    Oregon is trying to do that same thing.
     
    OZ, devine, DistantFactor and 3 others like this.
  3. The Banks

    The Banks TMB's Alaskan
    Donor TMB OG
    Oregon DucksGreen Bay PackersDetroit Red WingsBayern Munich

    Bout time California catches up to Mississippi
     
  4. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesSwansea

    I thought this was a good story
    Learning the Hard Way: My Journey from #AntiVaxx to Science
    APRIL 8, 2015
    [​IMG]
    The Hills Family in healthier days.

    Written by Tara Hills

    I’m writing this from quarantine, the irony of which isn’t lost on me. Emotionally I’m a bit raw. Mentally a bit taxed. Physically I’m fine. All seven of my unvaccinated children have whooping cough, and the kicker is that they may have given it to my five month old niece, too young to be fully vaccinated.

    We’d had a games night at our house in March, my brother-in-law had a full-blown cold, so when the kids started with a dry cough a few days later I didn’t think much of it. But a week after the symptoms started the kids weren’t improving, in fact they were getting worse. And the cough. No one had a runny nose or sneezing but they all had the same unproductive cough. Between coughing fits they were fine.

    Then a few days later at midnight I snapped. My youngest three children were coughing so hard they would gag or vomit. I’d never seen anything like this before. Watching our youngest struggle with this choking cough, bringing up clear, stringy mucus – I had heard of this before somewhere. My mom said I had it when I was a kid. I snapped into ‘something is WRONG’ mode.

    I jumped on Google to type in “child cough.” My kids had all but one symptom of pertussis, none of them had the characteristic “whoop.” But they had everything else.

    We had vaccinated our first three children on an alternative schedule and our youngest four weren’t vaccinated at all. We stopped because we were scared and didn’t know who to trust. Was the medical community just paid off puppets of a Big Pharma-Government-Media conspiracy? Were these vaccines even necessary in this day and age? Were we unwittingly doing greater harm than help to our beloved children? So much smoke must mean a fire so we defaulted to the ‘do nothing and hope nothing bad happens’ position.

    For years relatives tried to persuade us to reconsider through emails and links, but this only irritated us and made us defensive. Secretly, I hoped I would find the proof I needed to hold the course, but deep down I was resigned to only find endless conflicting arguments that never resolved anything. No matter if we vaccinated or not, I thought, it would be nothing more than a coin toss with horrible risks either way.

    When the Disneyland measles outbreakhappened my husband and I agreed to take a new look and weigh the evidence on both sides. A friend suggested I write out my questions so we could tackle them one by one. Just getting it out on paper helped so much. I only ended up with a handful of questions. But more potent than my questions were my biases.

    I just didn’t trust civic government, the medical community, the pharmaceutical industry, and people in general. By default, I had excluded all research available from any major, reputable organization. Could all the in-house, independent, peer-reviewed clinical trials, research papers and studies across the globe ALL be flawed, corrupt and untrustworthy?

    The final shift came when I connected the dots between a small, but real measles outbreak in my personal circles this time last year. But for the grace of God, our family was one step from contracting measles in our mostly under-or-unvaccinated 7 kids. Maybe we could have weathered that storm unscathed in personal quarantine. But in the 4 highly contagious days before any symptoms show we easily could have passed on our infection to my sister’s toddlers or her 34-week-old son in the NICU.

    When I connected the dates for everyone involved it chilled me to the bone. I looked again at the science and evidence for community immunity and found myself gripped with a very real sense of personal and social responsibility before God and man. The time had come to make a more fully informed decision than we did 6 years ago. I sat down with our family doctor and we put together a catch-up vaccination schedule for our children.

    That schedule that was supposed to start the week after I found myself in the waiting room of the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario (CHEO) with my 10-month-old son, waiting to confirm if he had whooping cough.

    I said before that the irony isn’t lost on me that I’m writing this from quarantine. For six years we were frozen in fear from vaccines, and now we are frozen because of the disease. My oldest two are getting better, the youngest four are getting worse and fast. Ottawa Public Health has been so helpful and communicative, trying to get us the help we need while keeping the community safe. We are under quarantine and starting antibiotics. Tonight, the baby started ‘whooping’. I did the right thing going to the hospital when I did. I can only hope this painfully honest sharing will help others.

    I am not looking forward to any gloating or shame as this ‘defection’ from the antivaxx camp goes public, but, this isn’t a popularity contest. Right now my family is living the consequences of misinformation and fear. I understand that families in our community may be mad at us for putting their kids at risk. I want them to know that we tried our best to protect our kids when we were afraid of vaccination and we are doing our best now, for everyone’s sake, by getting them up to date. We can’t take it back … but we can learn from this and help others the same way we have been helped.

    Vaccination is a serious decision about our personal and public health that can’t be made out of fear, capitulation or following any crowd. No one was more surprised than us to find solid answers that actually laid our fears to rest. I am confident that anyone with questions can find answers. I would only advise them to check your biases, sources and calendar: Time waits for no parent.
     
  5. Barves2125

    Barves2125 "Ready to drive the Ferarri" - Reuben Foster
    Donor TMB OG
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesManchester CityBirmingham Legion

    Good to see someone see the err of her ways. But, she also managed to let me know just how stupid she was previously and it infuriated me.

    "I just didn’t trust civic government, the medical community, the pharmaceutical industry, and people in general. By default, I had excluded all research available from any major, reputable organization. Could all the in-house, independent, peer-reviewed clinical trials, research papers and studies across the globe ALL be flawed, corrupt and untrustworthy?"

    That paragraph made me want to reach through my screen and slap this stranger more than any internet stranger ever before. And I post regularly on The-Mainboard.com.
     
  6. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    Since when is willful ignorance and neglect trying your best?
     
  7. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesSwansea

    What if trusting Jenny McCarthy over thousands of scientists was their best?
     
  8. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    I know when the health of my child is involved, anyone with any real authority on the subject is a shill and a former playboy model is obviously the most trustworthy source if that's what you're asking.
     
  9. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

  10. Open Carry

    Open Carry TMB Rib Master
    Donor
    Hartford WhalersAuburn TigersConnecticut HuskiesAtlanta United

    The Australian Vaccination Skeptics Network (AVSN) has come under fire for comparing mandatory vaccinations to rape, allegedly in response to an announcement by the federal government that it would cut childcare benefits to parents who refuse to vaccinate their children.

    A member of AVSN posted a photo to Facebook, showing a man with his hand over the mouth of a distressed woman, and the words: “Forced penetration. Really—no big deal, if it’s just a vaccination needle, and he’s a doctor. Do you really ‘need’ control over your own choices?”

    http://www.vocativ.com/culture/society/anti-vaxx-avsn-compares-vaccinations-rape/
     
    Jack's Colon and FactsRule like this.
  11. Toast

    Toast Doowutchyalike
    Donor
    Chicago White SoxChicago BearsChicago BlackhawksKansas State WildcatsMontreal Impact

     
  12. TheGrifter

    TheGrifter It's a trick. Get an axe.
    Donor

  13. gilstein21

    gilstein21 Tight Rip 26 Seal Right
    Washington State CougarsAuburn TigersSt. Louis CardinalsGreen Bay PackersWyoming Cowboys

  14. BamaNug

    BamaNug Want to retire right MEOW
    Donor
    Alabama Crimson TideAtlanta BravesNew Orleans Saints

    lol holy fucking shit:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. EdmondDantes

    EdmondDantes Both winner in league and apparently at life, haha
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersDenver NuggetsBig 8 ConferenceNebraska Cornhuskers alt

    this is the sort of people we're dealing with here, unfortunately
     
    Merica likes this.
  16. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesSwansea

    Rubella Eliminated from the Americas, Thanks to MMR Vaccine
    First we wiped out smallpox in North and South America. Then we rid the Americas of polio. Now, for the third time, the Americas are the first region in the world to eliminate yet another disease through vaccines: rubella.

    After 15 years of a widespread vaccination campaign with the MMR (measles-mumps-rubella) vaccine, the Pan American Health Organization and the World Health Organization announced yesterdaythat rubella no longer circulates in the Americas. The only way a person could catch it is if they are visiting another country or if it is imported into a North, Central or South American country.

    After the return of measles due to pockets of vaccine refusals throughout the U.S., it’s about time we heard some good news about vaccines and their ability to eliminate a previous threat to children’s lives. And in the wake of yet another study showing no link between the MMR and autism spectrum disorders, there’s a certain irony to the fact that the only clearly established cause of autism – congenital rubella syndrome – is actually prevented by the MMR vaccine.

    Rubella, also known as German measles, was previously among a pregnant woman’s greatest fears. Although it’s generally a mild disease in children and young adults, the virus wreaks the most damage when a pregnant woman catches it because the virus can cross the placenta to the fetus, increasing the risk for congenital rubella syndrome.

    Congenital rubella syndrome can cause miscarriage or stillbirth, but even the infants who survive are likely to have birth defects, heart problems, blindness, deafness, brain damage, bone and growth problems, intellectual disability or damage to the liver and spleen.

    The only way to prevent congenital rubella syndrome is for a pregnant woman to have immunity to the disease. The only way to develop that immunity – unless she has had rubella herself – is with the MMR vaccine, developed by Dr. Maurice Hillman in 1969, just a few years after the last major rubella outbreak in the U.S.

    The 1964-65 epidemic resulted in 11,000 miscarriages and stillbirths and 20,000 births with congenital rubella syndrome. Outside the U.S., as recently as 1997, more than 158,000 rubella cases were reported in Latin America and the Caribbean. An estimated 16,000 to 20,000 newborns were born with congenital rubella syndrome every year in those countries before widespread vaccination.

    To achieve elimination, there must be no evidence of endemic transmission – an infected person in the country passing it on to another person – for at least three years. When the Expert Committee for Measles and Rubella Elimination in the Americas met last week, they concluded that no cases had occurred for five consecutive years. The last endemic case occurred in Argentina in 2009. The investigation required review of 165 million records and 1.3 million checks in communities, reported The New York Times.

    While definitely a success, this milestone does not mean rubella is never a threat to babies born in the Americas. Across the world, 120,000 children continue to be born with severe birth defects from the disease, including 43 cases of congenital rubella syndrome from among Japan’s 15,000 cases of rubella in 2013. If a case is imported into an area of the U.S. with low immunization coverage, it could spark another outbreak here.
     
  17. RockHardEnis39

    RockHardEnis39 StEvIS_iN_cBuS/LandlordBob stalks me
    Donor
    Penn State Nittany LionsSan Francisco GiantsPhiladelphia FlyersLiverpool

    Watch out for microwaves guys
     
  18. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I think there is a little bit of suspicion wrongly associated with vaccination. There are diseases that are increasing in frequency, and, as far as I know, there is no good medical or scientific explanation for why that is happening. I think we see the same thing with GMO foods - people see an increase in cancer, autism, ADD, etc., and need to blame it on something. Vaccinations, GMO, and hormones in milk seem like valid explanations to a lot of people.
     
  19. three stacks

    three stacks hasta la victoria siempre
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Miami HurricanesBarcelonaMiami HeatAntifaAnarchy

    Link?
     
    Iron Mickey likes this.
  20. SP1

    SP1 Ball State #1
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesChicago CubsLos Angeles LakersChicago BearsWest Ham UnitedBall State CardinalsSneakers

    Yeah, there's been quite a bit of discussion about this on TMB already in the old thread. The thread is so we can make fun of anti-vaxxers because they are fucking idiots who endanger everyone else's kids.
     
  21. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    oh. well yea, fuck those idiots!
     
  22. pperc15

    pperc15 Well-Known Member
    Donor

    pretty good studies showing broadening of the spectrum has lead to increase in autism diagnosis
     
  23. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
    Donor
    Auburn TigersAtlanta BravesPittsburgh Steelers

    There's a difference between an increase in diagnosis and an increase in the actual condition.

    In the 50's if you had a mild form of autism, you were just thought to be a fucking weirdo.

    Cancer rates are probably increasing because people are living longer than ever. If you make it to 90 you're probably going to have some form of cancer.
     
    shawnoc, NilesIrish, IV and 1 other person like this.
  24. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    True, and I think both articles make both of those points, but they also think it's not JUST living longer and broadening of the spectrum. That's also a point that's not entirely clear, which makes it even more difficult. Is it better diagnosis of problems, or are there actually more problems?
     
  25. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
    Donor
    Auburn TigersAtlanta BravesPittsburgh Steelers

    I'm not gonna act like I know what I'm talking about, but I'd think that it's diagnosis. We're constantly improving our diagnostics tools especially for cancer so we can catch it earlier. Technology evolves at a much faster pace than diseases/disorders.

    I have no idea why GMO's are such a boogeyman to people. A lot of GMO's are modified as a pest repellent, meaning you don't have to use as much pesticides in order to grow them. You can't tell me modifying plants to make them more pest resistant is worse for you than ingesting trace amounts of poison.

    I know there are other types of GMO's, but I just don't get why so much is blamed on that.
     
  26. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    Because reasons.
     
    IV and Merica like this.
  27. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    Honestly I think it's like misplaced dislike for Monsanto mixed with the "natural" food movement mixed with a hint of distrust of big business and a dash of not really knowing what they're talking about and/or mistaking correlation with causation. BUT WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH A LABEL?!
     
  28. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
    Donor
    Auburn TigersAtlanta BravesPittsburgh Steelers

    Don't get me wrong, I hate Monsanto and I'm all for people buying local, but the bottom line is that they have been a reliable supplier of food for the largest human population in earth's history.

    If you can afford to buy local, do it. But don't make the mistake of thinking organic=local/small, because it doesn't at all.

    I think the general distrust of science these days is baffling and a little scary.
     
    OTM, BlazingRebel, IV and 2 others like this.
  29. theriner69er

    theriner69er Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Cleveland BrownsFlorida State SeminolesDetroit Red Wings

    I don't think there is any question that better diagnostic tools will lead to more, and sooner diagnoses. I also don't think it's completely absurd to think that some of our lifestyles will contribute to an increase in some risk factors, and along those same lines, that we may be exposing ourselves to higher risk factors that we are not aware of. How you measure those two against each other, I'm not sure.

    I'm also not a farming expert, but I think the main boogeyman for GMO is the roundup-ready crops. Those crops, as I understand them, are resistant to the herbicides in roundup. So farmers can douse their fields with Roundup, and the crops still grow. The issue for the anti-GMO crowd (or one of their issues) is - is that safe? Is it safe to have food grown in Roundup or other herbicides/pesticides?

    I understand the hesitation, but we also grow food in manure, right? But at the same time, Roundup is pretty toxic stuff, you are supposed to wear gloves and a mask when you use it, but we can actually grow corn in Roundup laced soil, and that corn is 100% safe? but then manure....
     
    Merica likes this.
  30. jorge

    jorge Founder of Post ITT if your team sucks
    Donor
    Penn State Nittany Lions

    Manure is natural and decomposes. I have no empirical evidence to back up that it's safer, but I can see how it could be.
     
  31. RockHardEnis39

    RockHardEnis39 StEvIS_iN_cBuS/LandlordBob stalks me
    Donor
    Penn State Nittany LionsSan Francisco GiantsPhiladelphia FlyersLiverpool

    Yet the runoff phosphates from that are killing our waters. See Chesapeake Bay.
     
    FactsRule likes this.
  32. jorge

    jorge Founder of Post ITT if your team sucks
    Donor
    Penn State Nittany Lions

    No u are
     
    FactsRule likes this.
  33. cutig

    cutig My name is Rod, and I like to party
    Donor
    Clemson TigersNebraska CornhuskersCarolina Panthers

    derp
     
    #35 cutig, Apr 30, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015
  34. dfmPSU

    dfmPSU don't drive angry
    Donor TMB OG
    Penn State Nittany LionsPittsburgh SteelersTottenham HotspurPittsburgh Pirates

    Improper management is the issue, not the use of manure per se. Manure is only one source of the problem, though significant.
     
    IV likes this.
  35. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    There's a difference between herbicides and pesticides. Roundup is a herbicide but lots of GMOs are specifically modified to make pesticides less necessary.
     
    FactsRule, cutig and Merica like this.
  36. cutig

    cutig My name is Rod, and I like to party
    Donor
    Clemson TigersNebraska CornhuskersCarolina Panthers

    :facepalm: Yup I do know that, misread his post. Carry on.
     
    Merica likes this.
  37. MORBO!

    MORBO! Hello, Tiny Man. I WILL DESTROY YOU!!!!
    Donor
    New York GiantsNew York YankeesAtlanta UnitedUCF Knights

    One of the biggest issues is that GMO is such a vague term and encompasses so many different sets of scientific manipulation that it doesn't mean a gosh darn thing. Are any crops that result from cross-breeding genetically modified? You could make that argument. What about mutation breeding crops? If I recall, Federal regulations don't treat that as "GMO."

    So if we're going to label things, then wtf do we label? All of it? Because pretty much everything you buy in your grocery store has been "genetically modified" to some degree. Even that organic banana and the baby kale. What's that, you grew those tomatoes in your backyard? Yea, they're still GMO.
     
    IV and Merica like this.
  38. Tangman

    Tangman Well-Known Member
    North Carolina State WolfpackCharlotte HornetsWashington RedskinsEverton

    Herbicides are pesticides, fwiw
     
  39. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    You have that backwards, fwiw
     
  40. Merica

    Merica Devine pls stop pointing out my demise. :(
    Donor
    Auburn TigersAtlanta BravesPittsburgh Steelers

    [​IMG]
     
  41. Tangman

    Tangman Well-Known Member
    North Carolina State WolfpackCharlotte HornetsWashington RedskinsEverton

    How so?
     
  42. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference

    Pesticides kill weeds and also insects and herbicides kill just weeds. Roundup kills weeds and not bugs. Thus, it is a herbicide.
     
  43. Tangman

    Tangman Well-Known Member
    North Carolina State WolfpackCharlotte HornetsWashington RedskinsEverton

    No offense but I'd suggest that you look up the definition of pesticide

    Both herbicides (weeds) and insecticides (insects) are pesticides
     
  44. AlternativeFactsRule

    AlternativeFactsRule Mmm ... Coconuts
    Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesSwansea

    What about chemicals designed to kill herb.burdette? He's an herb, but he can also be a pest.
     
  45. Bo Pelinis

    Bo Pelinis WE GO HARD ON EARTH
    Donor TMB OG
    Nebraska CornhuskersBig 8 Conference


    You got me. I'm using a commonly used term (albeit, seemingly incorrect) instead of an agronomy term. Insecticides it is.
     
  46. Truman

    Truman Well-Known Member
    Donor
    Missouri TigersSt. Louis CardinalsChicago BullsSt. Louis BluesEverton

    We need another outbreak to get this back into the news cycle
     
  47. SP1

    SP1 Ball State #1
    Staff Donor TMB OG
    Michigan WolverinesChicago CubsLos Angeles LakersChicago BearsWest Ham UnitedBall State CardinalsSneakers

    I KNEW IT! FALSE FLAGS EVERYWHERE! YOU JUST WANT US TO EAT YOUR POISON AND INJECT YOUR RAPE NEEDLES INTO OUR KIDS!!!!
     
  48. herb.burdette

    herb.burdette Meet me at the corner of 8th and Worthington
    Donor
    Ohio State Buckeyes

    I left Rivals when I found out Borton was working with Monsanto to come after me.
     
    Iron Mickey and FactsRule like this.